The idea of this post is to ask several questions. Yes, each question could be a new topic, but it would be much easier for you to read one post and answer. I'm sure most of you would agree, so I'm going to post all of them here. It will be a longer reading, so just skip to the questions that interest you and come back later for the others. Hopefully, I’m not the only one who will learn from these questions.

1) This first questions mainly applies to spinner and spoons. You can fish a silver blade and body for maximum flash and black oxide parts for the opposite affect. Adding tape or tubing in green, pink, orange, etc. can be the trick for attracting more fish. Now, when using color with metals, you use a color appropriate to river water levels and clarity (dust like drift fishing). My question, is if there is an exception to these "rules". In Jed Davis' book, he basically says to stay away from green and blue although these colors produce. He also tells a story of how black tape is his highest produce lure on a certain stream. Is there a certain color work better on local streams? Is there a time when you use green, pink, or orange not based upon water conditions?

2) Let me set an environment. You are fishing high in a river, usually a canyon. The banks are steep, narrow, and the bottom is deep. The flow of the current through this channel is constant from top to bottom with no large boulders for steelhead to hide behind. Imagine a constant sloped bottom as well with no dips or humps.
Question A) Do steelhead hold in here, or find a section of river upstream?
Question B) If they hold in here, how do you fish for them? Backbounce? Lets say the water is 40’ deep. Is that too deep for steelhead?
Question C) Same question as A & B except, they apply to salmon.

3) As a beginner steelheader, how do you identify male from female steelhead? From my readings, I have learned only slightly on this topic. Obviously when they are fresh from the ocean and chrome there isn’t any color differences. How do you determine them, by they shape of the head, belly? When the fish are higher in the river and have some color, what are the characteristics? The males have a red band along the lateral line and a red gill plate? How about the females?

4) I have heard of some steelhead fighting with all their life, while others are just dormant. I experienced this the other day when I caught and a fish in a deep tailout of a pool drifting eggs. It didn’t hit the eggs hard, but seemed like more of a slight pull. It was hooked in the roof of the mouth (where I see a lot of fish hooked), but didn’t give much of a fight. I reasoned this with the fish being tired after having to run heavy rapids and large falls. As I have learned, the tailouts are resting and feeding places for fish. How many of you have experienced the same thing? Is there a way to determine when fish are resting or feeding? What do you think?

5) I read a lot about seems or creases and the importance of them. Correct me if I’m wrong; but they create a resting spot for fish in high waters, provide security in all water conditions, have a “warm” edge in cold conditions, allow easy holding with a good current supplying food, and have good oxygen. These seems hold fish in almost any condition; winter or summer. How many of you always target seems while your fishing, or are there times when you pass them up?

6) During my time on the river I usually carry two rods, one spinning and one baitcasting. I know some others here do this as well. While your fishing how many of you will switch from say drifting to spinners, and work your way downstream fishing everything? Obviously fish have to go through every part of the river, and on their journey, they might lie behind a boulder or in a five-foot slot. Most of the time people will stop by the major “honey-holes”, that are well know and receive lots of pressure. These holes might hold more fish, but are also more reluctant to bite. In this case the fish that are hiding behind that un-fished boulder or sunken log might bite on the first cast. How many of you take the time to fish every “nook and cranny”, and should I be doing this?

7) Another question, is the spawning times of steelhead and salmon locally. Summer steelhead enter the system anywhere from May-Aug. and don't spawn until Jan-Mar. Fall salmon enter the system Aug.-Dec. and spawn Dec-Feb. Winter steelhead enter the system from Nov-Apr. and spawn Apr-May. Spring salmon enter the system Mar-Jun. and spawn Jun-Aug. Are these dates some-what accurate?

That’s all the questions I have for now. Maybe a ”part 2” to come later.

Matt

i like to use the spoons that are the prettiest. i dont care if they catch fish. since my wife buys all my lures , she thinks they should match the color of my reel and rod.
the rest of the questions are too difficult for me to answer.

I hooked a fish in the Stilly and I didn't know that I had a fish until I got it to where I could see it. I thought that I had the botton or a log. I was fishing for trout as I had only 4 lb test line on. I just reeled it in no problem. This is my answer for #4. I guess that all the other questions were to deep for me. Jim

Matt,

Are you doing all this posting at School? I was just wondering, beuase of the time it was posted.

Cowlitzfisherman

Is the taste of the bait worth the sting of the hook????

Get $150, hire a guide, and you'll get all of these questions answered AND get to use some of the info first hand.

Edit: Hens usually have a blunt nose profile while the bucks have more of an elongated head shape. Bucks will generally have more of a kipe. (hooked nose)

Matt,

1) I don't know what Jed Davis is high on, but I've found blue and green to be very productive colors. Choose your spinner according to water conditions.....silver blade in murky water or low light, brass/copper/gold blade in clear water or bright light. Black seems to work well in just about all conditions. Picking a spinner color is like picking the right corky, though, it's not an exact science and making an educated guess is what you'll be doing.

2) You might find a fish there if it was deep enough to conceal the fish from above. Fish definitely prefer cover, either above or below the water's surface. They also like broken current and arent as likely to be found in a place that doesn't offer rest or cover.

3) Male and female steelhead

4) All fish fight different. Some are turds. Some will kick your a$$. The fish you hooked may have been dueling for territory earlier, or you may have hooked it in a location that made it not want to fight. You never know.......

5) Don't pass up seams, especially if you are float and jig fishing. Fish like these locations for the reasons you describe, so don't pass them up.

6) I don't carry two rods. Sometimes I regret it, but if I'm bank fishing I don't want to have to lug another rod. Sometimes I'll wind up fishing a technique that my rad and reel aren't ideally suited for, but that's what you have to deal with if you are busting brush. If you are on a piece of water you have faith in, fish every nook and cranny. Steelhead can sometimes be found in a piece of water just big enough to soak your head in. Some days you may not have to probe everywhere, but when the fishing is tough, you need to explore all the water available. If you could predict where every fish would be, you only have to make a few casts a day. Once again, it's making an educated guess.

7) Ummm. I'll pass because I didn't want to have to think too hard. Use your search engine, there's plenty of data out there.

Hope that helps some. Good luck.......

A hens' mouth 'hinge' is in front of the eye, if you drew a line from the eye straight downward. A bucks' mouth 'hinge' in behind the eye.
Once you know what the difference is, you start to notice how how some hens are 'prettier' than others, and how some bucks are more studly than others.

Fish everywhere, every hole and seam up and down a stream, especially if you don't know the river well. Once you catch, remember that spot. If nothing changes drastically, fish will continue to hold in that spot for years to come.

I've found that sometimes I've caught fish that didn't fight worth beans and were hooked in the roof of the mouth. I've concluded that the hook is near, or in, the brain area and thus hinders survival based instincts. It doesn't always happen, but if you take close note of the location of the hook in the mouth roof, you'll see that most fish hooked in the same place will lack a good fight.

I don't fish spoons anymore for steelhead so I won't go there.

Good fishin'
diana

1) I've only had success with spoons and spinners fishing for salmon and trout. This is usually my last resort when fishing for steelies. Sometimes I'll rig my second rod with a spinner(silver, brass, black, chartruse), jig, or pink worm and give it try as a change.
2) Never have seen canyon water the way you describe, 40 ft deep, with no boulders. The canyons that I do fish have fast water, semi-deep pools, tail-outs, riffles, rapids, slots, boulders. Fish can move or hold in a variety of areas.
3) The females have a more rounded head and nose. The males have a longer, pointier head, nose, and have a touch of red or pink from their gills down their side.
4) Sounds like you hooked a "run-back" or a spawned out fish. I've seen fish move into tail-outs, coming up the break, and chase bait aggresively. Just depends if they are on the move, like after a freshet, or if they are just holding like in cold high off-color water.
5) I fish the seams or near shore in the winter during high off-color water. I don't fish seams in summer because the water I fish is usually low and clear.
6) Sometimes I'll bring my second rod if I don't plan on doing alot of hiking. I drift bait about 90% of the time, switching baits and yarn, or rags, corkies. Fish everything. I seem to catch fish in several different locations, seams, in front of me, across river, middle hole, tailout, head of hole, slot, riffle, eddie, rapids, or even off a bridge. Pounding everything, 3 or 4 casts in every location and moving on can make the difference between getting skunked and catching a fish. I like to fish the honey holes too. Sometimes its better to fish it a while, fish something else and come back to it later.
7) Seems like you know the run timing. It will vary depending on which river.

Thanks for all the help so far!

And Cowlitz, no I didn't post that at school.

As far as the fish, I do believe it was an upriver fish. I could be wrong though. The top of the fish was a sparkly chrome not a grayish color as I have been told. Who knows.

Keep the posts rolling guys.

Matt

RTL,

You certainly did ask a mouthful...here're my shots...

1. Color is certainly important, but I'd say it's probably 15% important, compared to 85% important for how you fish a spinner or spoon. If you take a spoon/spinner rookie, give him all the colors in the rainbow, and a copy of Jed Davis' book and put him on a river, and give an experienced spoon/spinner fisherman one silver Vibrax, he'll kick the rookie's butt for a long time until the rookie stops being a rookie.

2. I'm not sure this hole really exists anywhere, but if it did and I had to find a fish in it, I'd fish the head and tailout for the steelies, concentrating on the head in lower/clearer waters and the tail in deeper/more colored waters. For salmon, especially kings, I'd fish the deepest/slowest part of the hole. If it's all the same, then I'd also fish the head.

3. This is covered pretty well above, especially in regard to head and jaw shape.

4. Downstream fish fight less, fish that have just been caught in the last hour or so, too, not to mention a fish that may have just ripped up a big set of rapids or falls. For the most part, however, they have different personalities. Some fish fight like hell, and some don't. I'm glad most of them do...

5. Seams are the money. In high water they provide a current break with easy access to heavy water for cover. Not only do they do that in the summer, but if the water is low and clear they provide a bit of "cover" by creasing the surface. The only ones I would consistently pass up are ones that I've fished many times without a strike.

6. I never carry two rods, but I would if I fished stuff like Reiter and Blue Creek where I'd plant myself and stand there all day. The hassle it causes is much worse than the benefits it would bring. First off, I never fish spinning rods, and secondly, I can do pretty much all I need with my drift rods. Nook and cranny fishing depends on the time of year, the particular river, and the particular water conditions. If the water is low and clear, then I'll fish every spot where I can't see the bottom, and half the ones where I can. If the water is very high and/or dirty, I'll mostly just fish the spots where the seams are long and provide good resting/holding water. It also depends on how well I know a river. Some little streams just consistently have a fish behind a particular rock, and I'll never pass it up. Other spots look good, but never produced yet. I'll probably hit them with a cast or two and high tail it up to the next producing spot.

7. I'd add that summer runs may be entering fresh as late as the end of September on some rivers, and that a small percentage of winter runs are spawning as early as December, but not many until February, with the end of March through June being the biggest months.

Fish on...

Todd.

When you mention seams in your post I`m not sure if you are making the distinction between seams and slots or not.
A seam is of course the interface between two currents of different speed. The friction between the two creates a seam of slower current sometimes even a backeddy. These are ideal lies for salmon which tend to lie on the slower current side. Seams are commonly formed when an obstruction occurs on one side of the water.Root balls ,down trees ,and channedl changes in direction which form seams at the break away point from the bank are always worth fishing.
In contrast a slot is formed when water passes between two obstructions usually rocks. A deeper channel is carved out in the slot and the colour of the water in the slot is usually darker and the surface is usually less broken than water at the sides of the slot. This is the premium steelhead lie; even current on both sides and cover from above . These locations should be fished heavily .

Question #5. Answer:
Always, I say, Always fish the seams boy! and fish them more than once too. I can't tell you the number of times I've covered holding water more than once and hit a fish the 2nd or 3rd time.
Last week I did just that in a seam that I know always holds fish, ok they were 2 big Dollies, one each on the 2nd and 3rd time through, but I've also picked up steelies in there too, same way.

How many of you guys have waited for some yahoo, to leave a favorite run and then stepped in a hit a fish? Lot's of you have.

You gotta' believe if you want more hook-ups and less walkin'

1.I personally believe that metalic blue and green are two of the best colors to use. Then I go to silver, brass, and then copper, These colors are mainly for somewhat clear to clear water.
2. I don't have enough expeirience for this scenerio.
3. Females have a mor rounded head and the hing in their jaw is infront of their eyes, males have longer noses and the hing is behind the eye.
4. I haven't caught enough to notice a difference.
5. I fish any water that looks like it might hold fish! Remember these are basically just big trout that is the approach I try to take with steelhed. So if the water looks like it might hold fish fish it. I have seen fish caught in places that I walked past and didn't think were worth fishing.
6. I always carry two rods. Spinning and bait casting, I use my spinning rod for drif fishing, I have a better feel for with that rod, I use my bait caster for jigs or spoons.
7. Contact the game dept. and they will tell you what you need to know.

Good luck fishing.
Buck

Two more things...

It seems like color isn't a major factor, although I have always read that it sure helps. I was just kinda wondering if green compared to orange makes a big difference in different times of the season. In Jed's book, on a river in Oregon, green worked early in the season and orange in the later season. I didn't know if others have noticed this, or does it really matter?

The other question is about slots. I am positive about the difference between seems and slots, but don't know a lot about slots. I have always been told that steelhead will lay in the faster water, but where exactly will they hold in a slot? I thought the main current in the slot was to strong for the fish to hold. Wouldn't the fish hold in the mini-tailouts before the slot, or right at the seems, the obstruction creates? When should I fish these and with what? Spoons, because the water is to fast for any other tactic?

Matt

Hi Matt: In my book a slot is formed when water passes between to major obstructions, most commonly between two submerged boulders. Because more water is being forced through the gap current speed is accelerated and some turbulence created. The water excavates the bottom below the obstructions and deeper water moves more slowly . In surface appearance ;wheras the general surface is broken by small waves in good steelhead currents the surface of the slot is smoother and darker . Steelhead like to lie in water that has equal speed on both sides of their bodies thus keeping them in balance . Usually they will lie just below the start of the slot where the water starts to slow again after being speeded up in the slot.
This is my understanding of the situation but I wish we would get some discussion and other opinions .Its difficult to find good descripions of the hydrolics of the process and the relation to fish behaviour.
RT are you listening please give us the gospel.