I hope you dont mind me making this post but I felt it important and wanted to pass this on.
I was listening to Lars Larson,(radio)in Portland today while I was at work.A man called in and said he ordered a new Dell computer for his business.Weekend Combat Handguns.He is involved in making handgun products and sport shooting.
Dell turned him down because of the word combat in his name.Then stated policy as to terrorist activities and things of the sort.He read the complete letter on the air.They came off as trying to be a good American Co.
What it all boils down to after some research is Dell Computers is a supporter of H.C.I. or,Handgun Control Inc.And is pro gun control.As is A.O.L!!!
I know that with the prices of computers so low,lots of people are buying,and I really hope you all take a look at another product instead of supporting these jerks.
I also know a lot of you are hunters and gun owners so I just wanted to pass this info on.Thanks for letting me use this space to air my gripes.

who cares, as long as they offer what i am looking for i am still gonna buy.. dell makes good computers and if they're pro gun control.... that their right..

so bottom line for me is.
if the products good i'll buy.

Im not going to buy some second rate computer just because they sopport gun control or whatever.

and you say look at another product so are we supposed to spend hours reasearching each company before we buy.. so example if i want to buy a pen from pentel that costs 2.00 do i have to spend 2 hours reasearching to find out what they support and dont support.. sounds like a waste of time to me

in the time it takes to reasearch i could have dont somthing better.. like go fishing or hunting or whatever.

Hntnfsh, good post and thanks for the info. I for one will not knowingly support a company that supports gun control. If that means I pay more somewhere else than so be it. Thanks for the info, Dell will not be a brand I look at when go to get a new computer. There is to much money coming from the gun control lobby as it is they dont need any of mine to help out a cause I dont support!!

Fisinsinsation, as I see it if you support gun control that is your right. If you dont, then dont buy from companies that do. If I was an AOL subscriber and found out they were Pro Gun control I would cancel that day. Two many options available to support the other side of my views.

Not a good answer Fishinsinsation. They use your money to lobby against some of the things you do. That is the lazy way out. How much research would it take. GEEEZZ. Thank you for the update. I will pass it on.

ok EVERY ONE ON AOL CANCLE YOR INTERNET NOW! YOUR SUPPORTING GUN CONTROL

how many people here use AOL IM or perhaps have AOL as a provider! i am sure that number is pretty high.. also ICQ is owned by AOL... so is netscape!

there goes my browser...

ebay is ran by AOL..

so EBAY is off limits also

i just remembered..
aol and time-warner... i am sure this list goes on and on

want more?

I think it would be worth cancleing because us gun owners are always trying to fight so hard pro gun control just like fireDog and steelhd101 Said why put more money twards those that are against you . And as for how many people have AOL, I am sure the numbers are unbelievable, but than again you cant make every one cancle its just thier choice on how much they want the right to have guns. I guess its just something to really think about.

Fishinsensation,Its people like you that contribute to the problem then gripe like heck when your rights are gone.Your last sentence says it all.Do something productive like go fishing or hunting.
If people support gun control,either directly or indirectly you also contribute to the loss of your rights and might not be able to go hunting in the future.
When that right is gone which one will they try to take away next.
Grow some balls and make a stand for once.You might be glad you did.
There are a lot of other good products out there for a good price.Please put out just a little effort.Maybe because of it we can all do something productive and go hunting or fishing.
I've never tried to slam anybody on this board,but I came real close on this one.I have a feeling I wont need to because some of the other people on here wont be able to hold back.

hntnfsh slam me for what.. speaking the truth AOL is a huge company i am sure pretty almost everything you do online is linked to aol some how.. just think about it...

so ok great you dont buy a dell computer or use aol as an ISP
but yet you still use netscape, icq.. and many other aol related programs.

sounds like a good idea to me

if you dont like cooperate america go live up in the woods and make all your own stuff.. live off the land..

hntnfsh all day

FishnSinsation
It seems like your making AOL out to be be connected to every thing when yes it is a nation wide company for internet, but not to dis those with AOL, there are better and more larger companys out there that are not connected to AOL!!!!!

I think this is an outside issue.

I love fishing. And, I don't shoot my steelhead. I think it would be against the regs.

i thought guns were dangerous

Don't waste your money on Dell, HP, Compaq, Gateway or any other "brand name" computer. Chances are you are getting a junky computer for twice the price of a computer you can build yourself.

Who do you think pays for all of those wonderful TV commercials? YOU!

Build your own computer and save yourself a ton o' money and have the best components. Did I mention building your own computer is fun too?

Rod Serling would roll over in his grave. With this topic, truly we have entered "The Twilight Zone!"

I am threw debating about this.

Make of it what you will

ebay is not run by AOL.

I don't know what Michael Dell's position is on gun control. It wouldn't surprise me if he is for it. 40% of the people in this country are, whether we like it or not. If Dell, the company, were to take a strident, public, position for extreme gun control measures, I would cease to be a customer.

However, I wonder if that is the full story. I could see a company having measures in place to avoid doing business with other companies who appear to be fringe companies. This might have no more nefarious purpose than keeping their name out of the papers and off of 60 Minutes. The company name, "Weekend Combat", is a little inflammatory, in my opinion. You may not agree with my assessment about this name. What do you think Dell should do if the company name was, say, "Death to ******s/Lesbians/Hippies" or "Sex with Underage girlz" or some similar? (I apologise to any Blacks in our audience for my choice of words in the previous sentence, I am trying to make a point about offensive company names and realize the magnitude of the term)

If they were to refuse to sell to Ruger or Bushmaster, I would be concerned. I might then ask them if they also refuse to do business with DuPont or IBM, both of whom have a much larger defense business.

I say this as an avid gun owner and NRA member. While I fully support standing up for our rights, it doesn't do any good to push people's buttons. It is simply common sense to realise that some people are afraid of gun owners, and we shouldn't go out of our way to convince them that we are trigger happy nuts. Terms like "Weekend Combat" do that. The business owner that picked this for a name has rocks in his head and needs to go take a Dale Carnegie course on how to win friends and influence people.

Before anyone goes off half cocked, I would suggest simply asking Dell what their position is. I am sure that the person who picks up the phone will be happy to tell you whether they have a policy aginst selling to gun owners.

Now, as to AOL and E-Bay. I don't know about AOL, but my understanding is that E-Bay quit handling firearms related transactions some time back. I don't recall it being particularly politically motivated. More, I thought they were concerned about the legal climate in this country, and that they were simply worried about being the big pockets to be sued if someone bought a gun and then did some harm with it. I may not like that position, but it seems like a rational business decision to make, given the legal environment in the country at this time. E-Bay is not 'run' by AOL. It is a separate company, with separate management and separate stock. Check out the profile on Yahoo at http://biz.yahoo.com/p/e/ebay.html

The worst thing we can do as gun owners is to run around peeing on people that are afraid of us. The best thing we can do is to make sure that people understand us as we are - law abiding good neighbors. That means we need to be patient, knowledgable, understanding, and forgiving. Like Christ and Buddha. Know what I mean? So let's be sure to do our homework.

ok but aol does help run the advertising for ebay. "closely"

Internet giants eBay, Inc. (NASDAQ:eBay) and America Online are expanding their relationship with a new three-year marketing deal that expands eBay's advertising and promotion across AOL Time Warner (NYSE:AOL), AOL's parent company, brands. The companies, which have had a working relationship since 1997, will collaborate closely on developing marketing solutions for eBay across a range of AOL Time Warner's online, print and television properties.

eBay will also continue to have a prominent presence across America Online's domestic and international family of brands, including AOL, AOL.com, CompuServe, Netscape, and AOL's
Digital City.

SO why support a company who supports a company who supports gun control. Yahoo and EBay work together.. so why support a company who supports a company who supports gun control. so no ebay or yahoo..
not much left...i am sure yahoo works with alot of companies! so hmm.. go take yourself back up to the woods... oh and another thing.. fshnhnt i never said i didnt support gun control

you can hate me if you want. i have my opinions.. but just so you know i dont hate you

i love you all

just another question here.. how is hand gun control going to hurt hunters?
You cant use a hand gun to hunt can you?

personally id like to see more hand gun control...

aol runs ebay???

There is another firearm auction site out there that looks exactly like eBay does. It must be run by them. It's so similar I'm sure eBay would have shut it down by now.

Now here's a little more info for all you people out there boycotting Dell now.
http://wired.com/news/business/0,1367,50723,00.html

They aren't supporting gun control. They even offered the guy a freebie because they screwed up.

I've never seen rumors start faster than the gun lobby starts them.

Sinker,
Thanks for the added info.That is not the way it was discussed when the program was on and Weigand was personally on the air.You helped to clear a lot of this up and I appreciate it.
The one thing that did come out was the contribution to H.C.I. Maybe there is more to it than was initially said.
FishnSinsation. It is definitely legal to hunt with a handgun.A lot of people do it.Plus there are a lot of shooting sports enthusiasts that use handguns in their sport.
Maybe in my anger as to the way it was brought across I was a little to quick to jump on the bandwagon and should have done more research.Unfortunately my computer skills suck so I wouldnt know too well how to go about that.Sinker you did a grat job on it and once again I appreciate it.

I've watched this thread develop and I am interested in finding out if there are more folks like me on this board. I love to fish, I defend (fervently) the right to hunt, and I support Handgun Control (philosophically and financially). No need to go into the arguements, they are all well known and understood. I am most interested to see if my support of HCI puts me in the "wacko minority" part of the PP community.

Tight lines

Eddie, your support of HCI simply puts you in the ranks of the duped. HCI lies. Both to the public and to their contributors. The founder was quoted in the New Yorker years ago as stating that he and HCI will say anything and do anything to meet their goal of complete elimination of private firearms ownership in America. Not handguns, firearms. Their continuing fabric of deception and media manipulation is one of the major reasons, in my view, that we can't have a reasonable discussion about any reasonable legal measures.

I think the NRA is a little off it's rocker as well. But the NRA would be defused if the "anti" side wasn't so flagrantly dishonest. Paranoia is the only reasonable response if the world really is out to get you.

If you want an interesting view as to what the dangers of simple gun ownership are, vis a vis your kids, check out the National Safety Foundation's web site. Your kid's bike is more dangerous, statistically, to him/her than your firearm. Cars are way more dangerous. This of course assumes that your kid isn't a crack dealer, which I consider to be a separate issue.

If you want a scientific view of what the impact of private gun ownership really is, I'd suggest John Lott's "Point Blank". This is a statistical study of crime and gun ownership. John Lott is a researcher, who was anti gun, but intellectually honest. He did a study of the rates of crime, trying to correlate crime to gun ownership. He expected to find that as gun ownership increased, that crime would increase. He instead found the opposite. It's thought provoking reading.

As in so many areas, the problem is more complex than it appears at first. Also, as in so many areas, there seems to be a scarcity of independent thought.

FS, you said for me to diet for my family... If you like guns maybe you need to tighten up your belt a little!

We all choose who to support and who not to...that is of course unless your heads buried in the sand!

FJ...out.

Bye-Bye small businesses in Hawkes Prairie...Wal-Marts coming to town

Well,wel,well you sure know how t make friends FS :p

Here's how I feel about gun control- The first thing thy want to take away is your hand guns. Do you gun control believers think that criminals are gonna give up theres? NOT If a gun isnt registered how the hell are thy going t kno you have it? They arent ..The law abidding citizens will sacrafice there guns and the criminals will find a way to keep theres or puchase ilegal one's.

For instance since they did this in canada the crime rate has sky rocketed!!

If a crook knows you don't have ay guns what is going to keep them from just walking rightin your house? Nothing!!!

If it ever comes to giving up our guns then you can bet your ass I will be breakin the law because 90% of my guns are not registered an will not be given up..

FS- yes you can hunt with a hand gun.My uncle has hunted elk and deer with his 44 for years..

A crook would have to be damn motivated to walk into your house TM!

FJ, Hey at least you'll be able to find a large selection of pork rind baits and bass plugs now the Wally Mart is moving in. First, Yard Birds closed.........now try to find corkies in Olympia.

Criminals give up handguns? never...what's a trade without tools?

I am like a moth to the flame.... I can't help but reply. The whole gun control topic is a hot one with many of my freinds "all pro hand gun people"... I have found over the years that the gun control lobby gets its best press by simply letting pro gun people go ahead and try and make a point. " Charlton Heston is my president" and that type of stuff is just stupid. " When they pry it from my cold dead fingers" thats another gem.

A few things in life I am sure of... 1> The Russions are not comming... we got bored waiting and now we are looking for them. 2> No lobbie will ever be able to take away your right to hunt and fish. 3> There will never be a time when the nation is "free" of guns as the control lobbie would like to think.

Am I pro gun ??? That depends. I love guns and hunting. Do I need a blastmaster 6250 XP-MAG body snatcher model with optional 50 round mag and grenade launcher attachment... hell no. Does that mean I should think you don't need one.... I'm not sure. Do I have a problem with a 5 day waiting period on hand guns... of course not.

Many of my freinds won't go anywhere unless they are "packing".. That scares me as much as the prospect of running into the situation that they are " ready for".. There are a lot of people who are what the guns and ammo crowd would concider "pinko right wing cry babies etc." But they really are just people who are not scared that they will lose anything in the long run.. They love to hunt. Guns are a tool.

One last thought... think about all the guys you know that spend most of their time reading guns @ ammo... Handgun news.. whatever.. Most often those guys are the worst hunters you know. Anybody who can sit and talk for hours about the "stopping ability of my new Glock".. is not really about hunting anyway....

So whats next on the agenda guys???Abortion ???

FS,
Just wanted to take a moment to tell you I disagree with your logic and opinion.
JMS

thats fine, you can have your opinions little fish.

What i guess i was getting at is, i dont see the point in not using a certain company because it believes in somthing and turn around and use another who suports it also. You know what i mean? if you're going to do it.... do it right.. not half way..... and some guy said "build" your own computer because its cheaper.. (check out Infotechnow.com located in fed. way. really cheap parts and they also build computers great company) well are you going to reaserch all the componets that goes into the computer you build? I sure hope so because your not going to buy dell.. might what to know what your buying. Maybe someone will do all the hard work and reaserch and thats cool more power to you!!!

Hilarious.

Sinsation, I take it you are not a big fan of Rage Against the Machine?

Until they change the laws and my @ss gets declined in the background check, I am currently saving up for a tech 9 I am going to score for around $900. Missed out on an AR-15 a couple years ago, but I still get to shoot that bad boy. There's this machine gun-looking .308 I'm looking at for $1,100 along with the tech 9.

Will I hunt with these guns? Yeah right. Nope. I'm just going to have fun safely, and legally, shooting them. I shot a 12 gauge fireball yesterday for the first time. Damn, now that is bad @ss.

Hey, the Russians may not be coming, but you gotta watch those sneaky, damn Canadians.

Still though, anyone, who can be so sure as to those things never happening in his lifetime, will still be welcome at my place if it ever happens....as long as you're a quick learner with a gun.

FS
I understand...point well taken.
JMS

Aunty...I like your style!

FJ...out.

At the risk of being blasted... The reason our forefathers included the right to keep and bear arms in the constitution was so that the people wouldn't have to live under a tyrany of a corrupt/oppressive government ever again, essentially giving the people the tools to rebel if needed (I am not saying we should take up arms against the government. I am simply stating what I learned in history class). That said as a responsible citizen I should be able to own ANY type weapon available including: hunting rifles, hand guns, semi and fully automatic assult rifles (I know it is a radical thought).

I understand the reasons behind the liberal/gun control loby. I think that they are misguided idealists who seldom take facts or reason into consideration. They don't realize that the laws that loby for only will only apply to law abiding citizens. The criminals will continue to do things as they see fit. A perfect example of this would be the street gangs of Los Angeles. Fully automatic rifles are not available to the general public, yet the gang members have them. Where did they come from? You can't buy them at your local gun shop, and as far as I know you haven't been able to buy these types of weapons over the counter for quite some time (the late 1920's I think). Yet these punks have them.

I for one am tired of these prominent/whacked out liberals (Rosie O'Donell, Warren Beaty) telling me how I should live my life and what my morals should be. It seems that this is a free country until you don't agree with them.

Whoa Guess I got a little worked up there...

First off, handguns, like all firearms, are tools. They can be misused, just like a knife, a hammer, a car, or a #2 pencil.

I am for responsoble use of firearms and I believe that all folks who possess or use them should go through some sort of training program. I'm not sure about making it mandatory, because I don't like the creation of laws that make Joe Citizen a criminal the day it goes into effect, when the day before he was a stand up citizen.

I have drawn a handgun in defense twice in my life, and I doubt I would be here if I didn't carry. One time I was a civilian, the other was when I was a deputy. Never fired a shot and while I'm not religious I thank God I didn't have to. One guy was armed with a knife, the other with a pistol. Both were criminals with extensive records who obviously didn't worry about breaking the law.

The law enforcement community has an extremely difficult job. I respect them for the service that they provide us, but as AuntyM implies, they can not be everywhere at once. Many of us choose to take responsibility for our own safety. When I am at work, I can't carry (Bank). When I am anyplace away from work, I carry 90% of the time.

I have carried for 14 years and I will continue to carry until there is either no longer a need, or I can no longer legally due so.

There really is no middle ground on gun control. If you intend to hunt with a shotgun, you should not do business with those who would restrict handgun ownership. Look at Great Britain, Australia, and Canada. They started with one type of weapon first. The pistol. Next comes ANY semi-auto. Say bye-bye to your BAR, M1 Garrand, Remington 740, 11-87, or Benelli SBE. Then all rifles, and finally your beloved side by side or over/under. If you hunt with a bow, your next.

What does this have to do with fishing? Well, the well balanced folks at PeTA have attacked hunting, saying it is cruel, and less fervent supporters say that if you really need meat, you should just buy it at the store and let someone else do your killing for you. It isn't a big leap from there to fishing. PeTA has already introduced programs to school districts where they discuss the cruelty of fishing.

WAKE UP! If you think it isn't your problem, you have your head in the sand. Feel free to debate me on any of the subjects I have raised. I hope I didn't "read" like I was a raving lunatic.

Andy

"cold dead hand"?....Been close twice.

great post dogfish.. and you're so right..

so whats the answer? not buy dell or use aol?
its a hard call...
but as you said you carry a gun 90% of the time, well if i was able to carry one i might do so..
but i do carry my knife whenever im not at school.... i had two joes trying to steal my car the othernight what would stop them from breaking into my house when i am home. Even though i feel handguns are not the answer.. you're right.. if the bad guys have em so should we.
thank you for opening my eyes dogfish

Now I'm really CONFUSED!! Not only do I still don't know what is the Best Hooks to use, now I don't know what is the best computer!!!
Now I read I can't use a handgun to land a legally caught Wild Steelhead! This sucks guys!
And what's this AOL thing? You telling me we now have the Internet on our computers? Why do they take away things and give others we don't need? I miss the 60's!

Take the views of Silver Hilton, Timber Man, Dogfish, Vic, and Aunty M. Put them all together, and you got the way I feel about gun control! If the criminals have it, so should we.

Those horrible hand guns are just so terrible the way they kill and main so many people every year, they should be outlawed so we won't have to deal with these tragidies anymore. And while we are at it lets outlaw roller blades, bikes, skateboards, skis, boats, airplanes, and oh yea the biggest offender of them all lets get rid of all of the CARS too. They kill more people than all the rest combined.

I am against gun controll for all the reasons above
Have a freind that is a liscensed gun owner.gets a knock on the door opens the door and gets stabbed ten times.He was ten feat from his gun. I call him pin cushion now. The thief now owns his guns.Point is that the gun is rarely where ya need it when the need arises.
As far as using one to protect yourself from a cougar dream on.I have come across two in the last few weeks and a gun would not of helped.I walked straight into one that had no idea I was there.I was climbing over a sweeper on the river when we looked each other in the eyes.Afterwords I could not help giggling over the false security supplied by carring a gun.Probably would of shot myself trying to pull it.Believe it or not I did try like hell to pull my camers though...

I'm 57 years old, and I've NEVER been in a situation where a handgun would have helped me.

I guess that means the sky may be falling, but it hasn't happened yet.

BTW. I was on probation and parole for 18 years of my life. I've been to numerous jails, prison and institutions for herion addiction and related stuff during my 15 years of use. I've been clean and sober for 18 years. So its not that I have not been in situations where something could have happened.

Paranoia(fear) is a killer!

Lighten up - Enjoy life!

Dogfish, That was a great post. Although I have never had to draw my weapon on anyone, I had to make it be known that I had one.

In the late 80's I was driving home from the Kalama and when I was by Olympia, 4 guys in a car pulled up next to me and started pointing at my left front tire. I didn't feel any vibration coming from the front of my truck so I kept driving. They pulled up again and pointed again, I was starting to get a little nervous , it was about 1A.M. ,well, when I didn't pull over they started becoming aggresive and started flipping me off then they tried running me off the road. The only thing I could think of at the time was to show them my hand gun. I pointed it straight up in the air next to the window. You would'nt believe how fast they backed off.

Whether my action was right I don't know. I think it might have saved me.

2weeks after that , I read where the same situation happened to a couple. He pulled over by Montesano She was shot and killed ,He survived.

sometimes you can't get to a weapon, but I sure like the option of being able to.

PETA will do anything to stop our fishing and hunting. The NRA ,I believe, is a tool for us to keep our weapons.