To all those fishermen who like to fish Area 9 for blackmouth in the spring:

Apparently, there is a move afoot to reduce or eliminate the spring blackmouth season in Area 9. In the current North of Falcon proceedings, some anglers are urging the closure of our spring season. The idea is that the season in other areas will be extended if ours is reduced.

If you like fishing Port Townsend's Mid-Channel Bank, the west side of Whidbey Island and other parts of Area 9 in the spring (especially right now) and want it to continue, then you MUST send an e-mail to Tony Floor at the DFW. The e-mail must be received no later than Sunday morning.

I'm not real clear on the details, but the Department and a group of out-of-area fishermen think the season in Area 9 should be reduced and consolidated so that they can a longer season in their areas.

Floor's e-mail is floortaf@dfw.wa.gov

Write tonight if you'd like to see the spring season continue.

And I wonder why the Hood Canal Blackmouth season that used to run from Nov 1 to April 15 is now down to just the month of March. Hmmm but someone did get a cnr Blackmouth season for two weeks last December. So now I won't be able to fish Area 9 during prime time?
Letters on its way plus an e-mail.

Thanks KJ, for bringing this topic back up to the top. I was beginning to think no one cared, after I got limited responses to my post from Tuesday night:
Attention Area 9 Anglers!!! NOF meeting info

Anyway, I was at that NOF meeting in SeaTac on Tuesday and I can tell you exactly what happened. Jim Lone, whose family I'm told has a place at Point No Point, proposed changing the blackmouth season in Area 9 from the current season (Nov and then Feb 16 to Apr 10) to a season that would be just Nov, Dec, and Jan. I can't recall him giving any substantial reason for doing this, but as there was no direct representation from western Area 9 at the meeting, (ie. no one to fight it right away), this proposal got discussed. There were some guys there from the eastern side of Area 9, Whidbey and Possession, and they basically said it really didn't matter to them, as it is now they can't really fish the blackmouth season due to winds and bad weather.

Since Tuesday, I've talked to alot of anglers about this, anglers that fish Mid Channel Bank, and not one of them is in favor of it. I wrote a letter to Tony Floor today and told him this very thing.

So it's true, if you'd like to see the blackmouth season in Area 9 stay the same as it is now, you need to write a letter to Tony and get it to him by Sunday morning. Mail him here - floortaf@dfw.wa.gov

-N.

Me E-mail has been sent, thanks for paying attention for the rest of us.

Ng

Can somebody help the ignorant.What is a NOF meeting?

So were saying a handfull of anglers can go to this meeting and change the course of a season?

They have no science to justify this closure?

These anglers are actually hoping to close the spring b-mouth season in erea 9 in hopes of there personal waters being kept open longer?

I will help out but I need to no more?I am thinking we have a bigger problem then just the proposed closure I.E how these closures come about!

Hi ltCleo,

An NOF meeting is a "North of Falcon" meeting, it's where all the salmon seasons for the waters north of Cape Falcon are worked out. These meetings happen over a number of weeks each spring. Since this past meeting was the first one I've ever been to, I don't know tons about the process, but yes, it seems like a few fishermen, if they are there, and if they speak up loud enough, could get a blackmouth season changed.

Here's the thing, this is my understanding of it from this one meeting... in the WDFW's salmon forecasting model (big computer model) the months October through April all have the same impact factor on threatened stocks... in other words, in their model, all of the threatened stocks have gone into their terminal streams by October (remmber, all the Puget Sound threatened stocks are spring runs), and the impact to the stock in the Oct to Apr timeframe is strictly impact to juvenile fish that millign around or are on their way out to the ocean.

SO, with the model being calculated this way, the department doesn't care if we fish a day in Dec or a day in Apr, they both have the same impact factor in their model... understand? The department then just defines how many days per winter/spring they think we can fish, and have an acceptable impact on the stocks in their model.

The WDFW seemed willing to let certain (marine) areas trade fishing days from one time of year to another time of year, dependant on the impact, of course. In other words, trades between Dec and April would be a 1-to-1 trade, again, because these days have the same impact factor in their model. But if you wanted to get more summer fishing, then you'd have to trade 2 or 3 winter days to get 1 day of summer fishing... but no one wanted to do this, because this is VERY dangerous.

Remember, once you give something away, you might never get it back. The impact factors of the summer fisheries can vary greatly, because the numbers of available fish in the summer can vary greatly year to year. So it's extremely dangerous to trade winter days for summer days, because once you have those summer days, they could be taken away next year due to low projected returns, and there's absolutely no guarantee that you would get the winter days your traded away back.

OK, as you can see, this is complicated, and it's politics, not just science. I will say this, though. The department did NOT seem very willing to make trades between different areas, or between sport and commercial. These trades take a lot of work on their part, and are difficult to make in their "model", so they would rather just stick with trades within a certain area, say Area 9.

I'll complicate it further. Earlier I said that in the WDFW's computer model, all the days from October to April have the same impact factor. At the meeting, they told us this was true, but someone pinned them down and said "aren't we getting dinged for more than we should be for the partial months of Feb and Apr? And the department admitted yes, because their model calculates on whole months rather than on single days (don't ask me why, it seems like you could divide by 30 pretty easily), we are getting dinged for more than the days actually add up to. In fact, the figures they quoted were: Feb 16-28th, 62% of a month, and April 1-10th, 53% of a month. The WDFW did say they would look into rectifyiing this piece of the model, but gave no promises.

Anyway, I hope this explains it a little bit, if you've ot more questions, ask away.

-N.

Thank you much I just learned a bunch,Off to write a letter.
Greg

I've fished area 9 blackmouth for years and I agree with Jim Lone. I'd rather have three months in the fall/early winter then just november and some extra time in the spring. There is a lot more blackmouth around in the fall/early winter in area 9 then this time of year and the winds aren't really that much worse. I'd rather have it open when there is a greater concentration of fish present.

Beezer

StormN,

Excellent explanation of a messed up situation. I generally don't fish much in Area 9, but will send e-mail to Olympia anyhow, cuz once you give anything up, you WON'T get it back, and it makes it easier to do the same thing in the next area they want to restrict. Good work on your part.

I don't know if it's part of the same "equation" (apples/oranges, or coho/blackmouth), but some of us have requested that Area 9 be opened during July like the rest of the Strait. We had good numbers of coho around Port Townsend/Marrowstone in July last year, but had to wait until August to fish them, even for the marked fish.

Beezer, there are a lot of guys I've talked to that would disagree with you. They say that:

- The weather is worse and the daylight hours are much shorter during the proposed Dec and Jan period, resulting in many less fishable days and many less fishable hours than in the current Feb-Apr timeframe.

- Lots of these anglers also like to hunt game and fish for steelhead, activities which fit well with the current Feb-Apr period, but would conflict with the proposed Dec-Jan period.

- Many anglers expressed that due to family, holiday, and work commitments, they would not be able to get out and fish as many days in the proposed Dec-Jan period as they can with the current Feb-Apr period.

-Lots of anglers were angered at the fact that if Area 9 were to be open in the proposed Dec-Jan period, it would be the ONLY area open for blackmouth fishing then, thereby increasing the pressure on the area, from people traveling to Area 9 from other areas.

- Most of the fish present in the Dec-Jan timeframe are smaller and closer to the minimum size, so there could be a higher hooking mortality, due to guys catching small fish and releasing them. The fish in the spring are of a much bigger size.

And Scaly - From the paperwork I received at NOF on Tuesday, Area 9 is going to open for a selective coho fishery on 7/1. There will be no non-selective fishery in the Straits this year. The coho are definitely part of the same computer model as the Chinook, but the major problems with coho projected numbers this year are on the Thompson (Adams) River in BC, on the Stillaguamish River, and in Hood Canal.

Also, Scaly, you say "some of us have requested", who is "some of us"? Are you part of a fishing group in the Sequim area? I ask because I'm a member of the North Olympic Peninsula Chapter of the PSA, and I don't recognize your name. You should come to our next meeting, it's at the Gardiner Community Center on Thursday the 18th at 7:00pm. The guest speaker this month is Tom Nelson from Salmon University. Our chapter meets every third Thursday of the month at the same place.

-N.

I sent my e-mail to Tony Floor and received a prompt response. It's nice to know that someone is listening, even if sometimes it's not what "we" want to hear. Thanks Tony!

Hi Steve.....thanks for commenting on this proposal suggested by Pt. No Pt. anglers. E-mails have been coming in heavily against the proposal, so, if I was a betting man, I would wager that status quo will be the decision. We will review all of the comments next week in Portland at North of Falcon meetings and announce no later than Friday. Thanks again for taking the time to write.....Tony Floor.

Ng

StorminN

Thank you for your insights into the NOF process in Area 9. Fishery models are not a concrete science and often times ignore traditional fisheries, i.e., resource availability, safety and tradition. Having fished mid-channel for many years in my Puma I like others value a March-April fishery as long as the resource isn't harmed.

Again, thank you for an excellent summary re: the Area 9 issue. I'm now going to get off my rocking chair and make some calls!

Oh yea! Tell Mike O. that someday will hook up for a soul session at 3rd Point (AKA Muskeets).

5000D

5000D, so you're not just a web surfer, eh? Not many people know Mike O, and even less know of that zipperlip, so give me a hint who you are... email me if you'd like.

-N.

Hey StorminN,
Where is the rec comunity hall at?I know the area roughly so basics are all I need.I would like to attend one of your meetings.I am more inclined to drive North to one of your meetings than I am to go south to Gig Harbor where I believe the next closest chapter is.

Hey ltCleo

The Gardiner community center is right on 101 between Discovery Bay and Sequim Bay, closer to Discovery Bay, it overlooks it, in fact.

Once you drive around Discovery Bay headed west, (Fat Smitties, Snug Harbor Cafe, etc.) you continue on for a few miles... maybe 5 minutes drive. You'll come to a spot where there's a big white burnt-out building on the right, it used to be a "Wild Bird Shop" and there was the Greywolf Angler Flyshop there, too. There's an espresso stand and an antiques store still there. The Gardiner Community Center is about 1/3 of a mile past this, just off 101 to the right (north) It looks like an old grange hall, which I'm pretty sure it is. The entrance to it is off Gardiner Road, so once you past the burnt-out building, take your next right, it's an easy right off of 101.

I think you are right, we're the closest PSA chapter other than Gig Harbor, except maybe Bremerton. We have a few members that come up from Hood Canal. You should check out the Gig Harbor chapter, too. They are the biggest chapter. Their meeting is next Tuesday, I believe. Ours is the Thursday after that, the 18th. If you do come, look for me, I'm the youngest one in the group by about 40 years, (all those retired guys from Sequim) not hard to spot.

-N.

StorminN

I realize some of your buddies disagree however…

-It’s my opinion that the wind isn't more of a factor in December than in Mar/Apr. There is always a wind factor in area 9. As far as daylight hours go the Nov, Dec, Jan is great fishing. You can sleep in and still get to fish first light. This time of year you can fish first light then through a tide change and still be home by noon or get off work early and hit the afternoon tide change and evening bite and still be home for dinner. Let's face it you still have about twelve hours of fishing time. Remember it's a one fish limit. How much time do you need? If you’re into C&R then my original post is supported because there are more fish around.

-Your statement that a Nov/Dec blackmouth season conflicts with hunting or steelheading is pretty weak. Are you saying that getting up in the morning and trying to decide either to go steelheading, hunting or blackmouth fishing is a bad thing? Some of us don’t hunt and would rather fish when there are greater concentrations of blackmouth in area 9.

-The holidays through Thanksgiving and the new years are full of time off! Why not fish! I don't buy into the fact that you have less opportunity during the holidays. Give two days to the family and then go fishing for one or two.

-Increased pressure? Area 9 is huge. Even during peak coho season there is room. It is expansive with many hot spots for both trollers and moochers. Not a Problem.

-I agree with your concerns about shakers. Shakers are a problem no matter what time of year it is. This is a recreational fishing educational problem. We need to educate recreational fishers on how to handle a non-harvestable fish. Keeping shakers in the water, not netting them, gear selection etc. Species identification is also critical. However if your concerns are about encounters or "takes" according to the ESA it doesn't make any difference when you fish in Puget Sound, because the juvenile chinook that are listed are always present.

Lastly, you don’t know Scaly?? He’s an active and very educated member of just about every group/club that strives for fish conservation in the state.

Thanks for the "intro," Gary! Norm and I have been corresponding by direct email. We're almost neighbors, and will be getting together for some cutt fishing soon. And some club meetings. Then, maybe some July coho fishing in Area 9!