I fished the Cowlitz from the bank today. I saw no winter run steelhead caught, nor did I talk to a single boat fishermen that passed by me (and believe me there were plenty) today that saw one caught! Not a good omen!!

Both Blue Creek and the "mission" ramps were packed to the bank with rigs and boat trailers. Boats were running everywhere and no one where catching any winter run steelhead. I'll bet you that no more then 10 winter run were caught on the entire Cowlitz River today. This is surly a product of the outcome of the WDFW Settlement Agreement that was reached in August of 2000 with Tacoma Power (look forward to much more of the same this year).

This is pretty much the story that has happen all week long. During the week of November 25, only "six" (6) winter run steelhead were trapped at the Cowlitz Salmon Hatchery. Almost no "silvers" were caught by "drift" fishing from the hundreds of boats fishermen doing that!

Tie that in with the "fog" that is staying on the river all day long and you may be having a "trip" that you will not forget for a long time!!

Save yourself a trip (and maybe a longer drive) until things change.

Look too much more of this to come!!

Cowlitzfisherman

Is the taste of the bait worth the sting of the hook????

thanks for the report,isnt the cowlitz usually rockin by now?

Skydriftin

Those were the "old days"! Things are a changing and this may be the first year that fishermen see what those changes are! Hope I am wrong…but most likely I am not!!

I would like to hear from any fishermen that has "nocked them dead" (winter steelhead) so far.

Cowlitzfisherman

Is the taste of the bait worth the sting of the hook????

... and this settlement effects the winter run how?? Not up to speed on current events on the Cow, mostly cuz I don't fish it.

As far as winter run catches, I've done pretty well so far (both hatchery and early nates), I won't say "knockin' em dead", but pretty close considering I haven't put in that much time. However, with no rain things are getting rather spooky!!!

James

Cowfisherman,
Did the glowball thing last night and our crew got one nice winter to the bank. I lost three fish, one of which was a winter too. It wasnt redhot, but it is still early. The river running at 2900 for going on a month doesnt help either.
RL

I would say it's more the ultra dry weather pattern and the fact that TCL has held flows to 3000 all month. The recent rains were all retained behind the dams, as far as the Cowlitz fish know we're still rainless for the last several months. Like on every other river, this is going to delay things. Nice if they would let some

Hmmm.... We floated the cow on Friday and had a little bit different experience. We went 5 for 11, and it seemed like every sled we talked to had a least one fish.
Bite must of gone off today.

A slow day on the Cow is still better then most other rivers good days (peninsula excluded) I'll be down Monday to see for myself.

What many of you do not understand; is that YOU will NOT be seeing large future runs of returning Cowlitz River "early run" winter steelhead (November-February).

For those of you that do not KNOW the history, or historical timing of the "original native" Cowlitz winter run steelhead, these are the facts; about 50% of the historical run of Winter run steelhead originally returned from about mid November to mid February. The other 50% of the run (late Cowlitz natives) retuned from about late February to Mid April.

As many of you recall, Thanksgiving weekend "used to be the big kick-off" to the Cowlitz winter run steelhead fishing season. Apparently some of you still believe that this is, and will be the case in the future. Well, dream on guys!

Remember, NMFS, Tacoma Power, and WDFW have all determined that that the November-February stocks of Cowlitz winter run steelhead are NOT the true pure genetic stock or "native stock" of Cowlitz steelhead. That also means that there will be NO emphasis to enhance or prioritize the recovery of that run of Cowlitz steelhead. Because of this, these agencies have all agreed to prioritize the recovery of only the "late winter run Cowlitz stock of steelhead" (March -April). The August 2000 Settlement Agreement WILL CHANGE the timing and the amount of hatchery production of winter steelhead on the Cowlitz for the next 35 years!

In the past, low water conditions had made it ideal to fish in the "lower" Cowlitz River because the steelhead would "hold" and were not "forced to be sucked up to the Blue Creek" area due to the heavy influences of raising flows (i.e. 8000-9000 cfs compared to 2950 cfs now). If you fishermen would just take a few minutes of your time and read what's stated below in 6.1.1- 6.1.7 of the "Settlement Agreement", you will understand that it not the "low water conditions" that are stopping your "expected" large runs of early Cowlitz winter run steelhead…It's that dam agreement people!

Most likely, the first high water event will once again bring on the usual stacking up of whatever few fish may already be in the system around the Blue Creek area, but once that is over, (about one week usually) the "normal heavy fishing pressure" will most likely wipe out what had arrived, and that will be the end of it until sometime in mid March for the most part of it!

After you have read 6.1.1- 6.1.7 of the "Agreement", and you still choose to believe that it's just the "low water conditions" that are affecting the return of our early Cowlitz winter run steelhead, then I have some beach front property in Arizona that I would like to sell to you for almost nothing!!

If you still need to ask me any questions about this thread, please feel free to ask me, and I will attempt to give you an this board a factual answer.


6.1.1 The emphasis of this Agreement is ecosystem integrity and the restoration and recovery of wild, indigenous salmonid runs, including ESA-listed and unlisted stocks, to harvestable levels.

6.1.2 Fisheries obligations will be met through a combination of effective upstream and downstream passage, habitat restoration and improvement, an adaptive management program to restore natural production coupled with continued artificial production to compensate for unavoidable impacts at levels consistent with ESA recovery, and providing fish production for sustainable fisheries.

6.1.3 Collection and passage of juvenile fish migrating from the upper basin above Mossyrock Dam is the joint responsibility of the Bonneville Power Administration ("BPA"), Lewis County Public Utility District ("LCPUD") and Tacoma.

6.1.4 ESA constraints will be a factor in determining the upper bound of production at the remodeled hatchery complex. Hatchery production numbers are expected to be adjusted downward as wild stocks recover.

6.1.5 Fisheries management and hatchery production will be consistent with the overall goal of restoring and recovering wild stocks in the Cowlitz River basin. The hatchery complex will be designed with flexibility so managers can employ innovative rearing practices, low densities, and replication of historic fish out-migration size and timing. At a minimum, WDFW will be the primary contractor for the operation of the hatchery complex through the year 2008 and could continue as such through the term of the license, based upon the results of the annual reviews. Annual reviews of contract operations will include criteria for success including, but not limited to, fish health, operational efficiency, collaborative relationships, mutual expectations, effective implementation of the Fisheries and Hatcheries Management Plan, and public relations. At any time after 2008, WDFW may be contracted to operate the fish counting and fish separation activities in connection with the operation of the hatchery separator facility.

6.1.6 Maintenance of a recreational fishery is important. Implementation of wild salmonid recovery measures shall allow for the continued support of a recreational fishery on the Cowlitz River, including the production of non-indigenous stocks, provided this is consistent with the priority objective to maximize the recovery of wild, indigenous salmonid stocks.

6.1.7 If hatchery production is decreased in conjunction with wild stock recovery, there will be excess capacity over time at the hatchery. Uses for this excess capacity will be, in order of priority: 1) to reduce rearing densities of listed indigenous stocks which have not yet recovered; 2) to reduce rearing densities of indigenous stocks which have not yet recovered; 3) to provide space for increasing the production of listed indigenous stocks which have not yet recovered; 4) to provide space for increasing the production of indigenous stocks which have not yet recovered; and 5) to produce fish unrelated to Tacoma's protection, mitigation and enhancement responsibilities for the Project, pursuant to future agreements.

Good luck fishing for those early winter steelhead…I believe you will need all that you can get!!

Cowlitzfisherman

Is the taste of the bait worth the sting of the hook????

Had an excelent trip myself down lower. Everybody seemed to be finding a few bright winter and some boot silvers. Lighten up COWMAN lifes too short.

Hmmm

Cowlitz.. Was there ever a request for public imput on this issue?

It seems very strange to me. Thats exactly the kinds of agreements we'd like to have down here in our rivers but we get shut out at every turn and nothing good for wild fish is happening at all. hell we have streams down here where hatchery fish are planted and the only way to remove them is by sport harvest. The agreement is a very enlightened document HOWEVER it is completely and totally misplaced. The Cowlitz should be managed just as the people want it to be and just as it has been in th past. A predominantly hatchery production/sport fishery river so that other rivers in southwest washington can be managed for wild production and restoration.
If i'd have been involved in the agreement I'd have focused on wild fish restoration in the major tributaries to the Cowlitz. Just as we are doing with the relicensing negotiations on the North Fork Lewis dams. The Cowlits has great potential for wild fish restoration but that lies in it's lower tribs, The Coweeman, Toutle etc. The main stem should be kept as it has been.
In my opinion..

Oxcamp

I am glad that YOU did well fishing on the lower Cowlitz. How low were you fishing in the Cowlitz? All the boat fishermen that pasted below the "mission boat ramp" yesterday that I asked thought that fishing was pretty darn sad!

Now if you were fishing in what some people refer to as the lower Cowlitz (the area below the Toutle River) you may have certainly done pretty well. If that was the case, most likely you were enjoying the benefits of the steelhead that were headed for either the South Fork or North Fork of the Toutle River. I would be surprised if they were lining up for the "big run" on the Cowlitz. Normally the area below the Toutle is not very fishable by either boat or bank at this time of the year. This is the first year in over 15 years that I can remember it being clear and this low at this time of the year. Most of the time it is running well over 15,000 cfs and is totally blown out below the confluence of the Cowlitz and Toutle River for fishing.

I guest that you felt that I was putting some kind of a heavy burden on you because I gave you an accurate factual reason why steelhead fishing has been so darn slow on the Cowlitz. I can understand a guide being upset with my posting, but that does not include you, right…or does it?

People on this board expect to have true and accurate reports about fishing conditions and be given the opportunity to know what factual information may be available to them to make up their own minds. If you disagree with what I have posted, then please explain why. When a fishermen, or member of this board drives a hundred miles or so and spends a $50-100 dollars expecting to see fishing like it used to be on the Cowlitz on Thanks giving day, and don't fine it that way, they deserve to know what is really going on!

Robert Allen3:
I couldn't agree with you more!!!

90% of my posting are about the Cowlitz River and her fishery. I live here, fish here, and most likely will die here. So I guest that I will never "lighten up" about the issues that affect the Cowlitz River fishery.

Sorry, But I respectfully disagree with you Oxcamp about my "lighten up" problem. It just isn't going to happen!

Cowlitzfisherman

Is the taste of the bait worth the sting of the hook????

Robert Allen3

The Cowlitz was the first northwest hydroelectric "project" that has used the new FERC "alternative relicensing process". That is the same process that is currently being used on the Lewis River relicensing. The agency people are pretty much the same ones who worked out the Cowlitz Settlement. If you read the cc list on all of their relicensing emails, you will see that CPR-Fish (that's my organization) is always on it.

There was no way in hell that we could have been on both the Cowlitz and Lewis relicensing on a volunteer basis. Remember we were on the Cowlitz relicensing process for over 6 years and it still not over yet! So we gave our "all" to the Cowlitz River.

I am glad to see that you are involved in that process now. Be very careful of the "sugar" that they may be offering to you folks, as you are getting very close to having a settlement agreement! Make sure you read, read, read, and reread between the fine lines!

Wild fish are very dynamic, and it is my opinion that wild fish will NEVER fully recover under the controlled flows of a river that is used principally for power generation. It isn't that that way in wild and it is my opinion that it will have major long lasting negative affects on wild fish recovery and survival in the Cowlitz.

Robert, I am surprised that you have not yet seen a copy of the Cowlitz River August 2000 Settlement Agreement. It is way too big to post in its entirety on this site, so I will be sending you an email copy of the Settlement in MS Word. If you have any further questions about it, feel free to ask.

If anyone else would like to read a copy of the complet Settlement Agreement, let me know and I will send it to you by email too.

Cowlitzfisherman

Is the taste of the bait worth the sting of the hook????

Thats great Cowlitz thank you.

Although i don't know about the ability of restoration of wild fish in the dam controlled enviroment i think it is much better to try restoration in areas that are not as heavily impacted by development. Areas like i mentioned before in the Coweeman and toutle drainages and that is where wild fish money should be spent. Especially since we are basically asking a private company to spend money on somehting that doesn't directly benefit them. The most we ask them for should be spent in ways that have the most potential for positive results.
Our club ( the Clark Skamania Flyfishers) is very interested in relicensing issues but we have authorized another larger orgainization to negotiate on our behalf. Our main concern is that Pacific Corps main offer will be to provide fish passage above the lewis river resivours. Though not entirely bad we think it is extremely risky and potentially unsuccessful idea. Our first alternative would be to have them restore habitat in the lower north fork and in the East Fork Lewis. Or that if fish passage is adopted as the primary restoration tool1 that pacificorps set aside an equal contingency fund to mitigate for fish passage not working.

These companies benefit from irreperable damage done to our fish habitat and therefore our fisheries. It is their responsibility to comp1ensate us. We need to be holding their feet to the fire. That is best done by having them spend money in productive ways not just going through the motions and throwing money away. The companies don't care it's just money out the door to them. but if the money they spend actually does something good then maybe they won't be as reluctant in the future. Who knows if they become known as fish friendly them might even do more than we ask.. ok well that part may be a pipe dream

CFM,

Fanning some flames today, eh?

I agree that the steelhead production emphasis is likely to change in the future, in part at WDFW's preference to allocate hatchery poundage differently than other parties. However, I respectfully disagree that the Cowlitz settlement agreement has anything to do with the present showing of early winter steelhead returning to the Cowlitz River. As you mentioned, the agreement is dated August 2000, but it is not yet in effect, and won't be until FERC issues the new project license. Conversely, the current return of early winters are from smolts released in 2001, from broodstock in 2000, and would have been planned for in WDFW's Future Brood Document in 1999. Did any planning or production changes get made that would influence the return this season?

It seems that a more likely explanation is that out of the scheduled smolt release, lower than usual smolt to adult survival occurred. There is plenty of precedent for poor hatchery smolt survival on the Cowlitz, even when other hatchery returns are good.

While changes are in store for the Cowlitz River in the future, Tacoma's steelhead mitigation liability remains the same as in the past. I cannot quote you the line in the agreement specifying it, I think it's in the appendices, but 12,000 steelhead, at estimated smolt to adult survival rates in the late 60s, remains the goal. That can be from several sources: recovered wild steelhead, hatchery winter runs, and hatchery summer runs. The only ESA restriction that I recall is that early winters - because of their large Chambers Creek genetic component - and Skamania summer runs cannot be passed upstream of the dams to the upper watershed for natural production.

It seems to me that your complaint - poor fishing yesterday - is likely the result of the Cowlitz River's greatest weakness. It has for three decades been wholly dependent on hatchery runs with very inconsistent smolt to adult survival rates, independent of ocean survival. The dependence on a hatchery system that releases millions of diseased smolts that probably die before reaching Astoria at the mouth of the Columbia can never be a good thing for the Cowlitz, let alone good for us as anglers. A more diverse fish population and facilities that produce healthier hatchery smolts should do more to improve fishing in the future than continued reliance on over-production of low quality smolts in hopes of getting enough survivors to constitute a fishery.

Don't worry. I'm not going to try to change you mind about this or anything else. I know you better than that!

Sincerely,

Salmo g.

Salmo,
We have had our differences in the past but I hope you can look past that and answer two things, but first let me say. Very nice response to CFM. There are two or more sides to almost every story and the two of you represent things from different sides...so CFM, please no flames and this can stay an intelligent thread. Now Salmo, you talk about diseased smolt. I know that the Salmon hatchery has that problem but are you also saying that the Steelhead hatchery also does? If so, what is the solution? Secondly, you talk about 12,000 fish is that a total return for winter runs only or total steelhead? Or is the summer run on the chopping block?

CFM, not sure if you do but I remember the bruisers of March and April...if they could get the size along with the timing thats fine with me...but 8-10lb brats would be terribly disappointing.

Thanks,

Jim B

plenty of sleds at blue creek today. We got lucky and got one 13# winter run and stayed busy wih four summers we fished till 2pm and saw only one other winter run caught. Piss poor for December 1st. Worst Ive seen ever this time of year. Then again when was the last time the cow flowed at 2900cfs throughout november.

better get used to 2900 too the resiviours are extremely low and they aren't gonna be letting out more water till they fill up..

I'm old enough to remember fishing the Cow as a kid in the 50's and early 60's before the dams. Course there was lots of great fishing everywhere then But the Cow was always where we went for late bright hogs. Even after the dam(n) hatchery era began, this was still the place to go for late fish clear into the early 70's. I was probably one of the first to fish a home-made glowball at night below the barrier dam on the far shore (believe that must have been about '69 or '70 during spring break). The crazies I fished with had a little rule - land a fish and you had to chug a beer. We went through cases of beer and generally either the beer gave out or we gave out way before the fish did. Finally those late fish pretty much died out and all that were left were tons of early dinks, which I still enjoy fishing for but not nearly as much as the last of the projeny of real Cowlitz fish. Myself, I want those late fish back and if we have to give up the glut of early dinks that all return in one week and are dark the next, then so be it. In other words, I like the new plan and I hope it works, although on this, the most dam(n) screwed up river in the state, I have my doubts. For one thing, there is very little fish habitat left below the dams, and if you throw a million cows into a pasture that will only suport 1000, they pretty much are all going to starve to death and die - works that way for fish too. For the other, disease problems are almost assured in a highly controlled river where natural flood cycles are not allowed - I can't remember the whole story, but a hatchery manager of my aquaintance has a pretty convincing argument, based upon the enhanced survival of a snail that carries a significant salmonid parasite in rivers like the Cow that are no longer allowed to flood. So, two things to think about - more hatchery fish does not always equal more returns, and most likely will result in less, and if you ruin the habitat you ruin the fishing. <img border="0" alt="[fragile]" title="" src="graemlins/fragile.gif" />

Oh Salmo, how I miss our weekly talks!!

Flames, hell, I breathe them like oxygen! They never even burn me, but miss-information really does burn me!

I understand your concerns about protecting the 2000 Cowlitz Settlement Agreement. After all, isn't the NMFS about 6 months late with their biological opinion to FERC? Don't you think that many of these treads could have been prevented IF THE NATIONAL MARINE FISHERY SEVICE (NMFS) did their job and filed an opinion that could justify their actions on the Cowlitz?

Even those the "Agreement" was dated August 2000, both Tacoma and WDFW have been headed "full speed ahead" in 90 % of what was agreed to. That can also be verified by the minutes that are posted on Tacoma's web site...right? (http://www.ci.tacoma.wa.us/Power/parks/cowlitz/default.htm.)

It is my understanding that most of the early run steelhead are 2 salt returns. Is that not true? If it is true, then how possibly can you claim that the 2001 smolt release represent the current returns? You asked me if "Did any planning or production changes get made that would influence the return this season? Hell salmo, you are far better in the position to know then I am! But yes, first one must ask…right?

If you recall, we have had this conversation many times before. You had agreed that if we were to experience a large Coho run, most likely we should also expect a large winter run of steelhead. Have you now changed that way of thought?

While you have already admitted ("While changes are in store for the Cowlitz River in the future") we are looking at major changes, why not tell the board what you think those changes will be, and how they will affect the future sport fishing on the Cowlitz?

I too would like to hear what you have to say about the 12,000 number. What do you believe this consist of? You have stated something that may make a lot of fishermen ask why. You said "The only ESA restriction that I recall is that early winters - because of their large Chambers Creek genetic component - and Skamania summer runs cannot be passed upstream of the dams to the upper watershed for natural production.

Please explain to this board and me too, why in the hell they can't pass these fish above the dams for "natural production"? One last thing salmo; you stated that "The ependence on a hatchery system that releases millions of diseased smolts that probably die before reaching Astoria at the mouth of the Columbia can never be a good thing for the Cowlitz" Again please explain to the board, and yes, to good old me, in what study or factual information that this opinion was either supported or shown in the massive amount of studies that were done on the Cowlitz relicensing process.

Finally, yes salmo you probably won't change my mind until I see the facts that support your opinion on this issue.
I am looking forward to catching you on that secret honey hole, and then I will force you to concede

Happy turkey day…turkey

Cowlitzfisherman

Is the taste of the bait worth the sting of the hook????