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#170286 - 12/26/02 10:37 AM Native stock for hatcheries?
salmonbelly Offline
Returning Adult

Registered: 03/12/01
Posts: 359
Loc: Kirkland, Wa USA

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#170287 - 12/26/02 10:04 PM Re: Native stock for hatcheries?
Wild Chrome Offline
Spawner

Registered: 12/14/01
Posts: 646
Loc: The Tailout
Everything sounds great when the media gets a hold of it. Funny how they don't mention the issue of native broodstock programs depleting the wild fish population of its genetic diversity. Don't be fooled, the wild broodstock programs are an experiment. Only time will tell if they have positive or negative impacts on the wild fish populations. I know some bio's who work on the Sandy who believe letting the fish breed on their own would be best for the fish.
_________________________
If every fisherman would pick up one piece of trash, we'd have cleaner rivers and more access.

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#170288 - 12/27/02 01:56 AM Re: Native stock for hatcheries?
POS Clerk Offline
Juvenille at Sea

Registered: 08/03/01
Posts: 113
Loc: Oregon
http://www.ifish.net/cgi-local/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=010062

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#170289 - 12/27/02 12:08 PM Re: Native stock for hatcheries?
steeliematt Offline
Parr

Registered: 01/21/02
Posts: 70
I have to think it is a good program, You reduce the risk of true hatchery fish mixing with the wild fish in the system. the offspring from the hatchery have Wild parents and are allowed to reproduce in the wild as no hatchery returning broodstock are bred from, So if 500 return through the guantlet to the trap I think this is 500 I know will have a chance to reproduce in the Wild enviroment. But as you state the Wild fish that are taken might be depleting the resource. But They could also be spawning in the bigger channels and there eggs lost in high or low water as the gravel shifts. So with the program I know that 55 pairs will be putting appox 180k smolt back into the system. And after the summers yearling checks you are not able to tell the difference between the wild or broodstock yearlings except one is fin clipped for the resource. No true hatchery fish mixing and weakening the wild gene. So on the river I participate in so far it appears to be helping as it has continued to meet it's escapement and increase as well, And also provide a good per-say wild resource for the people who would like to take something home. But remember everything hooked and released in this program give back positive Wild benifits to the System. Just my thoughts.

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#170290 - 12/27/02 12:18 PM Re: Native stock for hatcheries?
steeliematt Offline
Parr

Registered: 01/21/02
Posts: 70
Also the persons in charge of the hatchery facility greatly inhance this program, As this was seen on our program, We got a person that knew Steelhead (Bio) and the returns greatly increased over the preveous person in charge. So having the right people in place greatly helps also.

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#170291 - 12/27/02 12:42 PM Re: Native stock for hatcheries?
spawnout Offline
Spawner

Registered: 01/21/02
Posts: 845
Loc: Satsop
Thanks POS, shows we have been there before.

I think a more ideal situation would be to let every river that has productive fish habitat (no dams, etc) produce it's own wild fish. Use the hatcheries on rivers that are a lost cause, like the Cow or Columbia. Use stocks of hatchery fish that will be unable to spawn with wild fish for temporal reasons, like ripening way too early or late to breed at the optimum time that natural selection has determined for wild fish. Also, seperate hatchery release points from productive environments - do things like delayed release from net pens or other type of artificial estuary to keep hatchery fish from competing with wild fish. Or at least release them way low in the river. Raise fewer, higher quality smolts and for sure mark every damn one. Let wild fish "overescape" like nature intended, and haul the hatchery carcases upstream for nourishment in systems where anadroumous access has been curtailed. And don't expect a lot from hatchery fish, after all any fish with "wild" tendencies, such as aggression, shyness, territoriality, etc. die out right away in the hatchery environment and are replaced by those that are easygoing, not shy or careful, and that take crowding and unnatural domestic conditions in stride. Of course these are mostly going to die in the real world, regardless of whether their parents were hatchery or wild. A potential cure for this is the "natural" hatchery, where the natural environment is somewhat duplicated and fish are fed minimal amounts of feed and forced to forage for the rest and hide from predators in relatively natural conditions. I believe they are trying this in the Dungeness.

No matter what, we are never going to be able to produce fish as well or as economically as they produce themselves. Most biologists know this, although the masses have not figured it out yet, so politics is still on the side of draconian hatchery practices and things like wild broodstock programs as are being pushed for the Sandy. Well, I guess the only good news is that things like this cost money, and since no one is willing to come up with enough to run them they will eventually die off. Hope they don't take they wild fish with them frown
_________________________
The fishing was GREAT! The catching could have used some improvement however........

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#170292 - 12/28/02 02:31 PM Re: Native stock for hatcheries?
Bob Offline

Dazed and Confused

Registered: 03/05/99
Posts: 6480
Loc: Forks, WA & Soldotna, AK
In a perfect world, we wouldn't need a hatchery.

But we're in a far from perfect world, and if we're going to utilize hatchery fish, we need to be using something other than the Chambers Creek stock!

While broodstock programs are far from perfect, I think the pro's far outweight the con's when compared to the current system that we have in place smile
_________________________
Seen ... on a drive to Stam's house:



"You CANNOT fix stupid!"

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#170293 - 12/29/02 12:27 AM Re: Native stock for hatcheries?
Cougar Fan Offline
Egg

Registered: 12/25/02
Posts: 4
Loc: Deming
I agree with the previous statement by Bob. ON the Nooksack River in the 1980's the local TU club had a broodstocking program and the number of fish caught was around 1200 in 1985. Now the hatchery fish caught are less than 10% of that (not knowing the figures from last year which I am sure were higher). Chambers creek fish are inferior. We tried getting a broodstocking program back, but the bios said that the return times of the broodstocking program will interfere with the natives (later returning fish). The WDFW Steelhead Management Plan calls for broodstocking to only be approved on runs that are very low. Our problem on the Nooksack is very low compared to what?

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