the run is only expected to be 100 fish over escapment, is it a good idea to have a cnr season ? i dont think so.

dumb question but where did you see the catch and release season I was just reading the closures and dont see what you are talking about.

From what I read this is supposed to be a CNR just like stated in the regs (normal season), no new info that I'm aware of via special WDFW regs/closures.

Loomis - Titanium Cranium is correct.

In the "Other Information" section of the closure notice it says, "The Skagit River and Sauk River
catch-and-release seasons remain open as outlined in the 2002/2003 Fishing in Washington rules pamphlet."

I agree with Boater. To conduct this fishery when the predicted returns are just marginally over escapement goals is a travesty. Why kill any steelhead when the predicted return is just 100 fish above the goal. I'm sure the margin of error in the prediction is much larger than the projected surplus.

To further worsen the situation, all of the other nearby rivers are being closed to all fishing thus directing all the pressure and resulting harm to the Skagit/Sauk System.

Where is the Wild Steelhead Coalition when we need them?
Why are they not acting to stop this travesty?
Perhaps an explanation is in order?

I'm afraid that the lobby for catch-and-release missed the boat on this one.

c'mon guys lets do the math,not just pop off with misguided opinions. Lets say there are 6000 wild fish in the system give or take a few. Of that 6000,lets say its a banner year and 1500 of them are caught by cnr fisherman. State stats say mortality is 10%under selective rules (no bait, single barbless), every study on this I've ever seen says its 2or 3%,these studies were done by agencies with one hell of a lot more creditability than wdfw. For the sake of argueing lets say that mortality is 6%. Thats 90 fish dead on the conservative side. You still make escapement and have a fishery to enjoy. Plunker, do you have something against cnr? Have never seen a post from you with anything positive to say about it. Could it be plunking is not as effective under selective rules.

Im still confused, Can we fish upstream from the dalles bridge....As to the original post all the steel head that are not fincliped have to be released all the time...so CnR is not going to kille that many

yes, up stream of the Dalles bridge Skagit,Sauk open,release wild fish,no bait,Cascade system is closed

Plunker if only 4800 return thats the 80% of wild escapement required for a cnr fishery according to your " vast number of experts". I still think you're angry cuz you won't be able to anchor a large gob of eggs and spinglo in your favorite hole, but to attack the WSC over it is wrong.

plunker, you ever notice how everyone thinks the way the state manages fish is screwed up until it comes to a cnr season like this then the way they do it is ok.

I am so siick of this!! Why is this state still using mininum esacpment numbers?? understand this is the MININUM number of fish required back to the river to sustain the population. and to top it off they make some wide ranging educated guess prior to the season to see if we might have just enough fish to open a season and maybe kill some.
then after all the fishing is done and all the fish are killed they go out to count the number of redds in the river and find out they overestimated the number of fish by a couple of thousand and now in three(or two or four) years there is no way we can have a season because they guessed wrong. and if it's a low water or a high water year (just what a normal water year is I've never heard or seen) that means more or less fish and seasons. maybe we should face the fact that there are more fisherpersons then there are fish and we can't all go kill a couple or even catch a couple every day. the least the state could do is set the numbers so high that if they are off by several thousand and it floods we can still fish

Plunker, I certainly am in favor of this fishery. I am a member of the WSC, but I do not have the right to speak for them. That said the WSC was founded originally to try to protect fisherys like this one. You also said 1/4 of the fish you hook with spoons and spinners are potentially mortally wounded while rarely so plunking bait or not. Why are you the only angler this is true for? You said you have even hooked fish in their stomach with spoons and spinners, I don't mind a little bs here and there,but this out and out lyins gotta stop. I'm sure you feel that if there is a 100 fish surplus you would rather have that 100 whacked and brought home by 100 anglers in 5 days than have a fishery 2 months long for all to enjoy and have much less impact on the fish. I've shown you the numbers. Even your "vast number of experts" agree, this fishery is a good one. I will post no more on this subject as no amount of research or scientific data can stand up to your opinion, to you.

Rattlefish......you got it! So much for "experts". Disgusts me to my guts to think that minimal escapement is OK with ANYONE, much less fish stewarts.

rattlefish - "Why is this state still using mininum esacpment numbers??"

It's the law! The Boldt Decision and other directives mandate that the co-managers (the state and the tribes) must divide any predicted surplus above agreed upon spawning escapement goals.

The system isn't perfect and they use "optimum", instead of "minimum", escapement numbers. The state is not bound by law to harvest it's half but if an attempt is not made the tribes may take the foregone opportunity.

Fun5Acres - I'm not sure I like the setup myself but I've never known of any suggestion for a better way to devide the fish.

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skydriftin - Thanks for you forthright reply. Bad choice of words on my part where deep or in the throat should have been used instead of stomach.

I must agree that the WSC was originally founded to protect C&R fisheries. Let me add that the driving passion which led to its founding was the result of wrongly blaming over-harvest for the closures of the C&R seasons on the North Sound rivers a couple of years ago.

In truth, the low returns that precipitated those closures were the result of poor egg-hatch or juvenile survival to smolt and even poorer ocean survival of those smolts to returning adults. The returning adults in question were derived from an excellent number of spawning adults four years earlier.

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boater - I've noticed that as well. Most people tend to agree with and grasp upon anything that validates there most passionate and predisposed ideologies. This is called rationalization as compared to analysis.

I suppose you may have also noticed how they transpose their own misconceptions and assumptions about others thereby avoiding the unknown realities that they fear in an attempt to feel correct in their arguments. It is always easier to argue against what you propose the opposing argument to be, thus ignoring the underlying reality.

In this thread I have been accused of having "something against" C&R despite the fact that I release most of the fish that I catch and "angry" because I can't plunk as effectively without bait when, in truth I only intermittently use bait plunking.

Damn! Next thing some dude calls me a liar for admitting that I hook lots of fish in the eye, tongue, gill and throat tossing hardware. Why assume that plunking must kill a greater percentage released fish then tossing hardware when the opposite is obvious to anyone experienced with both methods?

That's simple... Most people tend to agree with and grasp upon anything that validates there most passionate and predisposed ideologies while rejecting that which upsets their comfortable bed of illusion.

Anyone else notice how much free time Plunker has had on his hands since March 1? Don't the Wildcatters have card games at the clubhouse or something to keep you busy?

LOL

Yup!

Bait is legal and it's ok to retain fish including hatchery steelhead, dollies over 20" and cutthroat over 14". I took home a nice 18" nate today. It should make a tasty breakfast.

Yummy!

B Gray you slay me LOL
Plunk; they got to have that C&R season so the Fly fishing industry can stay afloat
:p :p

Oh yeah, the perch analogy. If wild steelhead were as numerous as perch then I'd keep 'em. But perch is some GOOD eatin'.