There are a lot more countries in this world than sit on the U.N. council.There are way more than 3 that support us.If they arent in the U.N. does that mean that what they say and their support for us doesnt count.Most people seem to think that if you dont sit in the U.N. you dont count.Why is this? They are just as much a country as the others.
Also G.W.B. went to the U.N because Colin Powell worked very hard to pursuade him to.It was not something he wanted to do.That backfired and you can see the change in Powells initiative now.I think it was time for him to get on board or be an outcast in the administration.
If Bush would of went in and attacked right away I would bet money that the outcry would be far less.

MOST countries in the world are members of the United Nations.

The U.N. Security Council has 5 perminate members and a rotation of 10 others. The big 5 have veto power. He couldn't convince more countries than just France and Russia. Mexico, Camarron, Pakistan... all were on the fence or unsupportive.

Bush went to the UN because that it the protocal when you live in a interdependent globalized world. It wasn't because Powell wanted him to- its how things are done in the 21st century!

One thing is for certain, George W. Bush was able to do what Osama Bin Laden was unable to do...unite the Islamic world against us.

Congrats GWB...that's quite a legacy!!!

If we had done the job right twelve years ago none of this would be needed now. I think France forgot all too quickly who saved their butts about 60 years ago. In fact even when they're saying veto their president is saying "we still consider America our friend". Who's butt is he trying to grease. Must be his own.
I say go in kick butt and get it over with. Americans have been damned if they do and damned if they don't in this world for a long time. Everybody wants our money and aid and protection when their butt is on the line and when it's not they all say to hell with us.

I want no part of a world government. I will however opt for civility any day. The AntiChrist can wait his turn.

Twig

Good point!

Twig,
I really think you need to do some home work before you put hands to keyboard! First of all, there are a lot more countries than three that are supporting this U.S. led action. In fact even France has climbed back up on the fence so that they might attempt to save a little face when chemical weapons and other weapons of mass destruction are found. And if you really believe that our president has united the Islamic world against the United States, you really need to take a trip to Kuwait, or Saudi Arabia, The United Arab Emirates, Qatar, Oman, Turkey, Bahrain, Pakistan or the New Afghanistan and see how much they are against us. Have you ever had the opportunity to walk walk down a street in one of those countries?? I have, in several of them as a matter of fact, and you'd be amazed at the amount of respect they have for this great country of ours. And it really amazes me that here in our own country I can hear more disdain for our President and they way that we protect freedoms around the world than I ever heard when I was in the middle east. Are our memories so short that we have forgotten what Saddam Hussein has done with these weapons everytime he has had them? Ask the people of Iran, the Kurds, the Kuwaitis or even his own Iraqi citizens.

It I am not mistaken, the only people Saddam has attacked so far is other Islamics. So why would they, being the Islamics, be pissed at us.

CWUgirl


You are very helpful and provide a very rational and logical look at this issue from a very unique perspective... free of the male, matcho ego. Thanks for sharing and it's great to have a female's point of view. Keep it up, you help make this quality board.

CWU gal --

It's permanent, protocol, "Russians" (cap), gassing!!!!!!!!

B- (grade)

I am at a loss here.

Is the reason for all of this dialoge and exchange on the part of you CWU and you Twig, because you think we are there to capture the oil fields? Or is it because we want to kill Iraqis, or do you think it's because GWB is a war monger? Or what? Do either or both of you think that Sadam does not have WMD. Do either or both of you think that he does not commit atrocities on the Iraqi people?

What in (your minds) do you think prompted the president to undertake this task.

I'm not questioning your right to say what you want , I'm jus curious about your reasons for your beliefs.

Please don't take this post as a condemnation of your opinions just an attempt on my part to understand your reasoning. I respect your right to it and maybe I could learn something.


herm

Ya know you're making great points when your spelling comes in to question. Thanks!

Really......I think its all about the economy. Something to take our minds off domestic concerns. We don't need their oil. We don't care about the Iraqi people (IMO). The war is illogical and will increase global terrorism. That is a frightening prospect and something I don't think the Bush administration is giving enough thought to.

He is a ruthless dictator. Is he the worst? Absolutely not. I don't agree with the stance the US should be the lone ranger going in and imposing our will on other nation states.

What I am most worried about is what the result of this conflict is going to be on the US. Increased terrorism? What will our position in world politics be after? This could have very bad long range consequences.

And I'm just not seeing the upside.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="verdana,arial,helv">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="verdana,arial,helv">Originally posted by John Lee Hookum:
<strong> CWUgirl


You are very helpful and provide a very rational and logical look at this issue from a very unique perspective... free of the male, matcho ego. Thanks for sharing and it's great to have a female's point of view. Keep it up, you help make this quality board.

There is a new documentary out entitled "Bolwing for Columbine" you ought to check it out. It just got an academy award for best documentary.

The documentary details the millions (YES, I Said MILLIONS) of innocent people that the U.S. has killed as part of its campaign against various regimes. Sadly, the rulers that the U.S. continually wants to get rid of are the very ones that the U.S. has put in power. Saddam and Osama are two good examples.

We think we had it bad because we lost thousands on 9/11. It was indeed a very sad day. We say "What a tyrant, Saddam has killed thousands, and he kills his own people". This pales in comparison to the attrocities that the U.S. has committed.

What the U.S. doesn't understand is how much and why much the world hates us. They hate us because of the damage we inflict. They hate us because we constantly have double standards. We had the worlds support after 9/11, but we've thrown that support away. Watch the news sometime, I'm not making this stuff up.

Pres. Bush was not even going to seek congressional approval for war, something that the constitution prevents. Finally, he decided that he better play by the rules and asked for approval. Sadly, congress gave approval cart blanche, the same situation occured during the Vietnam era.

Then, Pres. Bush was not going to seek U.N. authorization. Finally he caved and we've had the debate the past couple of months. Eventually however, he's decided to go against the U.N..

Canada and Mexico, two of our closest allies, have turned against the war. Look whats happening in England, top cabinet members are resigning. We simply don't have support.

The Bush' regimes arrogance is what pisses people off within the U.S. and outside of it. Most politicians evolve and GW's stance as though we're at the OK Corral (Ya' better be gone by sundown) just doesn't win support.

It's a sad time...

I don't see that people are negative, that that they're complaining, or that they haven't added anything. You read that in because you disagree. It's ok to disagree.

The debate is also not about giving support to those who are on the front lines, we're all thankful for that.

The questions becomes "should we be at war to begin with, especially at this time?" Should we be asking those on the front lines to give their lives at this time? Just because GW says something is NOT a good argument. People need to think about the issues, look at how the world is responding and not just get the spin from Ari Fleischer...

The question is also not about whether we can take out Saddam. That can be done, but then what will we do? We said we'd help out in Chechnya, but we haven't. We said we'd help out in Afghanistan, but we haven't done much there either. The truth is that the US goes in and blows countries up but doesn't rebuild them like it says it will.

Once again I ask the question, does the US government have a history of telling the truth the its citizens or should we be skeptical? The US is the best nation in the world but I think we can do better.

Uniting the Islamic world will have repercussions that we can't begin to imagine. Look what has happened in Israel, the fighting has been going on for 50 years. We're about to have the same chaos here.

Of course you don't...

This debate is that apparently all the most knowledgeable and in sighted people in our country right hear!! On this board!! Apparently our country is run by a bunch of uneducated morons completely going on their own personal agenda and who know absolutely nothing!

Pretty much sums up your debate???

You don't think that people read and hear all this crap being spewed? The decisions have been made! It's time to stand behind those decisions. You'll have your chance to change the person who makes those decisions in two years!

A skunk doesn't smell it's own stink....

So Twig, you have told me what has been done wrong, in your opinion.

So tell me what the answer is( in President Twig's opinion.)

herm

Let me see.....was the poll not clear enough?

Yet this post goes on and on and on.....with a verbal minority (as in the rest of the country, I might add) continuing to make irritating noises. Shaddap!! Go to sleep now, children. We have to get up early in the morning and go fishing.

I think we need to win world support for this cause. I think if we had a good case we could make the point and get that support.

I think that we need to let the inspectors continue their work. Add more inspectors if necessary. The more inspectors that are there, the better chances we have of finding what Saddam is hiding. Part two of that is that we continue to gain more intelligence should we need to go to war.

I think that we need to continue U-2 flights over the area and watch what the Iraqi's are doing. Once again, the more intelligence that we have, the better we'll be at finding the weapons without causing undo casualties.

Lastly, if in fact we determine that Saddam has been hiding or manufacturing weapons then let's take him out. Unfortunately, the Bush administration has been unable to convince the world that Saddam is such a threat.

I don't disagree that Saddam is a bad man, its the method that GW is using that I (and an overwhelming majority of the world) disagree with.

GW isn't the president of the world. I don't believe that it is the position of the US to dictate who gets to run other countries.