Keep this in mind as you read my story that I am 17 years old.

Last night I was driving home from work, it was about 10:30 pm. I was driving 50 mph in a 50 mph zone. I started to go up a hill and my car slowed to 45 mph due to low compression in my engine. I looked in my mirrior and noticed a sherrif had flipped on its lights. So confused, I pulled over, shut off my engine and rolled down my window. He walked toward my car and yelled for me to step out. So I did. He handcuffed me, then pulled out my lisence and got my registration and insurance out of my car. Then he set me in his car. I am really confused at this point. Then he started to yell and cuss in my face saying that what I did was F***ing stupid and how F***ed up i was. Then I asked him what I had done wrong. He said I was doing 70 mph. So I asked him to prove it, and he did not. So he took off my cuffs and gave me my ticket it was $490.00

I was suprised to see that.

OMG,,

That sounds like a character attack on our law enforcement. Better shut down this thread! Its out of compliance!

Josh,

Based upon your handle, I'm going to guess that you're in Cowlitz County. If so, go see an attorney by the name of Randy Furman. There has to be probable cause to pull you over on a traffic violation. A $490 ticket is likely for "Negligent Driving 2nd Degree." If that's the case, the cop has to establish, among other things, negligence on your part--not just speed. Speed alone won't get him there.

If you want, call me. I'll donate 10 minutes of my time to see if I can get you pointed in the right direction on fighting this.

Wade Samuelson 360-736-1301

ive been threatened by tacoma cops/park police after being pulled over that i was"under arrest" , in most cases they use it as a power trip..they were in the wrong by saying that and the judge even told the cop so, but i know i did something i shouldnt have (peeled out at the exit of pt defiance park) , i think they should go thru a mental evaluation every 6 months, some cops jus shouldnt be cops..i feel for ya man..

Only hearing your side of the story, Josh, it sounds like you got a bad rap.

Call Wader!

WOW, deja vu. I had similar thing happen at 17 as well (I'm 33 now). I had an old chevy musclecar. It was december, and cold. Anyone who's owned a 60's vintage chevy, knows they are the cold bloodest cars in the world. Well, my car was fast. VERY fast. But I always kept her within the speed limits. I had just left the school (mind you my car was still cold, no heat yet, and barely going). I turned from overpass (sitting at a red light mind you and having to put foot on gas to keep her running) I had a police offer behind me at light, and no I wasn't revving engine, just stepping on gas a bit (Won't disclose city name, but they were notorious for writing tickets in the 70's and 80's). Well, I had barely turned, and was about a block from the corner and he turned on his lights. He said he had PACED me going 65 mph in a then 40 zone. I laughed (since my car died when I pulled over, it was still cold). My car would not run fast until thoroughly warm. Had no umph at all cold. He didn't tell me that he paced me until I asked him to show me radar (my basketball coach was a lawyer thank god, in fact he's now the judge of SAME town lol). He represented me in court. Put officer on stand (which, he was one of the bad ones, this city actually had a lot of them) and ripped him apart. Back then, legal pacing had to be 2 city blocks worth. This was barely even one, I had stopped within the end of 2 blocks. The fact my car was cold and I had turned a corner to start my pacing was another factor. It was actually thrown out of court by the judge. But, I had to deal with the terror of my parents up until court date. But in end, the judge even chastised the officer (which I had heard was rare). My lawyer even said that, and figured it may have been a ploy since there wasn't any other cases that day, I was the last.

So, go and fight it. It saved my insurance, which a male under 25 needs every break they can get. I agree, get a lawyer. What's the saying "A man who represents himself has a fool for a client"?

ALSO THIS IS THE FIRST TIME I HAVE BEEN PULLED OVER EVER!!!!!!

L R F J...

what kind of car do you have?

I have 2 cars:

a 1989 chevy s10 (grunt truck)
a 1999 oldmobile Alero, for school and work

I was driving my truck

I took my last ticket to court and the judge dismissed it due to prejudice on the officers part to what kind of car I was driving I guess.

I didnt bother to ask what he meant...
All I heard was DISMISSED and PREJUDICE, and I got the hell out of there

WADER-

I gave you a call, but you were at lunch, so I left you a message, give me a call between 6:30 and 7:15 tonight. I will leave the number again 360-666-4654.
thanks alot

Minibear-

what kind of car was it?

Take Waders advise!

But it does not sound like we are hearing ALL of the story yet! I would suggest that you closely read the RCW's that I have listed and see how they may apply to your case. My biggest concern would be the reason for handcuffing you if you did not get belligerent or hostile with the officer. If you did not violate any of these, and what you have said it true, it would appear that the officer may have used excessive force by handcuffing you during a standard traffic citation stop.

One would think that driving 20 miles over the listed speed limit could possibly justify an officer charging you with reckless driving, but that would also be stated on your citation
l
RCW 46.61.465
Exceeding speed limit evidence of reckless driving.
The unlawful operation of a vehicle in excess of the maximum lawful speeds provided in this chapter at the point of operation and under the circumstances described shall be prima facie evidence of the operation of a motor vehicle in a reckless manner by the operator thereof RCW 46.61.465

RCW 46.61.020
Refusal to give information to or cooperate with officer -- Penalty.

*** CHANGE IN 2003 *** (SEE 5758.SL) ***
It is unlawful for any person while operating or in charge of any vehicle to refuse when requested by a police officer to give his name and address and the name and address of the owner of such vehicle, or for such person to give a false name and address, and it is likewise unlawful for any such person to refuse or neglect to stop when signaled to stop by any police officer or to refuse upon demand of such police officer to produce his certificate of license registration of such vehicle, his insurance identification card, or his vehicle driver's license or to refuse to permit such officer to take any such license, card, or certificate for the purpose of examination thereof or to refuse to permit the examination of any equipment of such vehicle or the weighing of such vehicle or to refuse or neglect to produce the certificate of license registration of such vehicle, insurance card, or his vehicle driver's license when requested by any court. Any police officer shall on request produce evidence of his authorization as such

RCW 46.61.021
Duty to obey law enforcement officer -- Authority of officer.
(1) Any person requested or signaled to stop by a law enforcement officer for a traffic infraction has a duty to stop.
(2) Whenever any person is stopped for a traffic infraction, the officer may detain that person for a reasonable period of time necessary to identify the person, check for outstanding warrants, check the status of the person's license, insurance identification card, and the vehicle's registration, and complete and issue a notice of traffic infraction.
(3) Any person requested to identify himself or herself to a law enforcement officer pursuant to an investigation of a traffic infraction has a duty to identify himself or herself, give his or her current address, and sign an acknowledgement of receipt of the notice of infraction.

I hope this has helped you!

Cowlitzfisherman

This is why it's a good idea to always buy cars that kind of blend into the background. I've gotten far less attention from cops (none) in my Toyota Corolla than I ever did in my Eagle Talon.

I was pulled over for running a light. The only problem was that it was green. Went to court with witnesses and the case was dismissed. Judge said that officers are subject to mistakes too. The Duck

not that im doubtin your bad experience but i was pulled over by a stater last nite that was a total professional and i made out good.

Ugh I've been so sick of the local police lately.

I dunno bout where you are, but in Enumclaw the cops are complete capitalists. I've never seen less then three (sometimes more then 7!) cops around my school at 2:25.

It's kinda odd how we see so many around the school then, but at night theres only ONE road I've ever seen them patrolling, never with more then two cars.

Nice job those Enumclaw cops have. They dont gotta work nights, just rake in all the cash every day at the high school! Damn, looks like I found a good career for me.

Curtis

Simple advice,If you can afford missing work,Contest it.Plead not guilty.Have your day in court and tell the judge your side of the story.
In my younger days I had a run in or 2 (or maybe a few more than that)with the law.Mostly the small stuff.Sometimes I deserved it.Sometimes not.Ive been lectured to by the judge ,and have seen the judge lecture the officer. I actually had a judge tell an officer how sick and tired of him taking advantage of the public he was,that he dropped the case and got up and walked out of the courtroom after telling me to get a lawyer and see if I had other avenues I should pursue.The judges know those cops and some of the cops get reputations,just like some of us do.
One thing I learned is always plead not guilty.You never know when the ticket will get thrown out for any of a number of reasons.Heck maybe the officer got sick and couldnt make it to court that day.Case dimissed.
At the very least you can tell your side of the story,present any info,evidence,or witnesses.Then maybe get your ticket lowered.
One other thing,cops have bad days just like us,They put up with jerks,deal with everything imaginable.and are under huge amounts of stress.So always remember that,and always be respectful,no matter what.You'll be glad you did.

If you take the time to show up for your court date the judge will almost always knock the fine down by half.

Lets see here, your 17, your male = your screwed, bring your checkbook!

LOL Ak, don't give the kid a complex. I won mine at 17 (and it was like the 2nd worse traffic fine city in the state back in the 80's). But I had a lawyer.

From what I have been told in the past, 12mph over the speed limit is considered Negligent driving, Which is probably where the large ticket came from. If he claims that he clocked you going that fast then he probably gave you a neg. Were there any other cars anywhere near you that he could have gotten you confused with? I don't see any excuse to cuff you and start yelling. I was caught doing 20 over last summer (i was 17). Trooper pulled me over, ran my plates and let me go. :p

Josh,
If this was a Clark County sheriff they are totally unprofessional. I have had a run in with them and afterwards I filed a complaint with Internal Affairs. Sounds like you should do the same. Of course Internal Affairs is just as bad as the road deputies. Good luck!

If your gonna fight it take an attorney.

If your gonna fight it take an attorney.

If your gonna fight it take an attorney.

If you go to court and get convicted it is much more serious than just paying the ticket.

If you are innocent, fight it for sure! BUT....
TAKE AN ATTORNEY!



herm

ps.
I'm not an att.
h

It is to bad that a person who has been issued a citation has to give up time from work, as well as pay to prove his innocence. It would be nice if the courts would have to reimburse the defendant if found innocent. I think that there would be more righteous tickets issued if this were the case. By the way I have seen police cars that have to have their speedometers recalibrated, the certified speedometer can fail as well!!!!!

Watch out what you say the department of homeland security might label you as a terrorist :p

josh,last year in pierce county a stater wrote me a ticket for neg driving 2nd degree $490.00,he said i smoked my tires for 75ft. wich wasn't true,went to court told my side of the story and got it reduessed to failure to use due care and caution$100.00 fine,so good luck


FISH ON!!!
curt

ok, my court date is may 19th. I will let you all know whats up after that. Thanks for you support

ok, my court date is may 19th. I will let you all know whats up after that. Thanks for all of your support!

Josh

remember your own line when your up in front of that judge!

"Remember, its not luck, its presentation"

Cowlitzfisherman

last summer I got pulled over by a stater going south on I-5 just past the camano/stanwood exit, and they sit on top of the bridge and nail people, he said I was going 85 in a 70 and He took my information, came back to my car and let me go as he took off to pull someone else over, oh yeah he also asked me if Id been drinking and stuff like that but he took off and got someone elses sorry ass

I was 17 then too

Josh

You never did say if you had contacted an attorney to represent you, or if you were going to represent yourself! Which one did you decide to do?

Cowlitzfisherman

Lots of good advice....
Last Spring as we were driving through Astoria, Oregon, we saw a white shiny pickup
parked on the street with a HUGE sign on the tailgate that said something like this: (Pretty close to the original statement which started with an apology like to the court ) and ended up with
"OFFICER Xs()*(&* IS A LIAR IN COURT"

We nearly ran off the road....
Always be respectful and don't send out a lot
of negative body language.
Good luck.....

Hey josh, what the deal? Talked to your buddy Grayson today. He says you don't even drive yet. So how could you get busted if you don't drive?
Anyway, even if you did get busted, them BG and County cops are a real pain in the A$$, they have really been cracking down lately, don't know why but they are really getting a lot of people.

Were you DWB (driving while black)? If not I can only say you ran across a stressed out lawman acting unprofessionally.
Are there any more details you may be omitting?

WTF????? Are you suggesting that if he was black and pulled over (for being black), that the copy was acting professionally? Tell me that's not what you really meant, right???

Back Eddy

Replieing to all your questions.

I do have an attorney, my uncle is a lawer.
I am not black i am white
I just recently got my license, I don't really hang out with grayson anymore Mike.

Maybe some of you anti-cop people should start taking responsibility for your actions. If you get busted , then take it like a man and accept the consequences. If you were true upstanding citizens, then you wouldn't have to think twice about running into the cops. How many time have you been driving only to have some idiot blow by you going 70mph? How many times have you wished that a cop was around to nail that driver? Sounds like the cop was around this time to educate Josh. I'm guessing that the cop has his version of the story also. I'm sure if Josh snagged a fish and kept it, most of you wouldn't be suggesting an attorney. Nothing personal Josh, just had to give my .02. Jack

Jack

I got pulled over for something I did not do, how do you explain that. I saw the cop from a distance, I looked at my speedometer and it said 45. So I was not worried, when he pulled me over I figured I had a tail light out or something. not speeding, I know I was not!

He just did not get his fill of donughts and coffee that night

Ok, thanks josh.
But yea, them cops we have around here are a real a** They have nothing to do and will pull you over for doing one mile over the speed limit.

Jack, for your information there are bad cops in this world who would'nt blink an eye when lying on the stand. Fortunately there are many more good cops than bad cops. Unfortunately its the bad ones who get remembered most of the time. Here's a little bit of advice so you dont have to find out the hard way. BEWARE of judges running for reelection on a law and order platform( they'll side with the cop every time right or wrong to get the law enforcement support) We had one in this neck of the woods not too long ago doing this very same thing. I know cause I became one of his victims. Kinda leaves a sour taste in your craw when it comes to beliveing in justice.

Look, cops have it pretty tough to. Who hear does NOT know a cop? Honestly, if you've sat down and talked to them, you must have heard somethin slip, such as how they profile different people, including whites.

I'm not doing a 180 and saying I like the Enumclaw cops, they're still haters.

But I DO appreciate the Auburn cops. I ALWAYS see an Auburn cop when I'm in Auburn, they do their job. Some cities have great cops, and Auburn is one of them.

Do NOT believe everything you hear. Just because someone sues for racism, does not mean racism took place. 90% of the time it didn't.

Here's an example. One cop was at the Auburn Skate rink, and had to throw out 5 kids that were causing trouble. One of the two blacks in the group sued him and the APD for racism. You decide.

Curtis

Wow! and you know every one of them? How do you know them so much to form that kind of an opinion.

Do you still drive that blue chevy?
I still have some contacts with the EPD maybe you might want to say some of your statements face to face Let me know it will just take a phone call.

im not a cop hater, i respect them to a point, however i got pulled over by a BLACK cop once, first thing out of his mouth was, when was the last time you were in jail?, i had long hair and drove a 89' camaro, i believe he was stereo typing....

JACK!

You got me man! I suggested he take an att. and that makes me a cop hater!

Really don't know why I'm responding except boredom, but you have got to be one of the most intellectualy challanged. knuckle draggers, I've come across on this board.

If you are innocent of the infraction you should contest it!

If you try to contest it without an att. you have a very good chance of losing, oh you might get the fine reduced, but you still lose!

When you go to court and lose, that conviction remains with you. If you just pay the ticket and mail it in, it says maybe you were too busy, or anything else and payed the fine! It's not a conviction.

I'm not a cop hater! I am thankful for the many, well trained, dedicated people we have in this state. I treat them all with the utmost of respect they have a very tough job.

That being said I also keep in mind that most small town cops are just that! (small town cops) Very dangerous and under trained. They have a tremendous amount of authority, and were not capable of meeting the requirements to qualify for a job in enforcement with a real police force.

I am very careful when I deal with them!

Been driving since 1960, a respectful attitude and honesty has gotten me way further than trying to argue on the hiway. I went to court one time with out an att. It was a joke! Only guy on my side was me. Cop, prosecuter, judge all work in the same building. They reduced the fine by $20 and told me to have a nice day!

Next time I took an att. The cop didn't even show up.

herm

ps. I was innocent both times!

h

when i was 16, i got pulled over on the road next to ohop lake. I was doing over 70, it was a 35 mph limit. The cop let me go,(i had a loaded 12 gauge behind the seat he never saw) He had every right to hang me and didn't. and i am thankful. 12 years later, I am taking my girlfriend (now my wife) down to pt defiance for a picknick. in a 3/4 ton chevy. Im going down pearl just past N30th. its downhill, i dont even have my foot on the gas. I see a cop waiting to turn on to pearl, don't even think about it. He pulls me over. He comes to the car and says "license" I said "what did i.." he says "LICENSE ***HOLE NOW" Gigi starts praying immediately. And i panick. I start looking for my license, finally i say, "I guess i don't have it." He looks down in disgust and puts his hand on his gun and says "Your doin 50 in a 35 and you don't even have a f'n license? outa the truck s***head!" I am bewildered I say "officer, I'm sorry..." "YOUR F'N RIGHT YOUR SORRY, GET YOUR ASS IN THE CAR ....NOW!" he puts me in the back. He asks me my name, I tell him. dob, i tell him. Address i tell him. He called in on the radio, then while waiting for a response he reams me, I finally said, "look, i made a mistake, im not a criminal, just write me a ticket and lets get this over with." of course he says "oh, Smart ass eh? I can just take you downtown..." then he gets the radio call back and it lets him know i have no record, and i do have a valid license. By this time i feel he might smack me or something, the nervous energy was intense. He finally looks at me in the mirror and says" I don't know why, but im gonna let you go." I said thank you. When i got back in the truck Gigi was bawling and praising God. I started to feel sorry for the cop. What a crappy job. He was at least 55 yrs old. This was back in '93 when hilltop was so terrible,I just kept thinking, "man, these guys are stressed, I wonder what happens to the poor guys who don't have someone praying for them like i did."

Having said all that, I must say that even though cops have rough days, If they can't remember their job is to serve and protect, they need to find another job.

Come on hermy, you can do better than that . That statement totally blows any credibility you may have had with anyone on the board. You don't know me well enough to talk that way about me, in fact, you don't know me at all!

Remember this...everybody thinks they are innocent. "It must be the cops radar, it must be broken."and " My speedometer is right, that cop is wrong." I say it again hermy, too many people don't want to take responsibility for their actions. Most of the posts here are from people who got caught, are pissed about it, and still don't believe that they did anything wrong or that it is their fault. These are the same people that keep getting caught and just can't figure out why. They want to point the finger at everyone else but themselves...Poor me

Don't let the attorneys on this board scare you into thinking that your life will end without them. Josh, If you have second thoughts and think that maybe the officer was right, tell the judge and ask for a reduced fine and a probationary period. Keep your nose clean after that and never look back. If this is your first offense, then hell, the judge might give you a good break.

Again Josh, nothing personal. Good luck, JACK

Jack:

My mess. to Josh is obvious, straightforward. even dbble spaced, easy readin! If anybody can convert that into cop hater , more power to em!

Read with me Jack..


"IF" you are " innocent" fight it for

sure! But.... take an attorney.


All cops may have to go to the same training. I don't know!

Do they all have to pass the same pshyco screening? intell test? background check? have the same required number of classes? pass with the same scores? undergo the same scrutiny during training? and adhere to the same standards?

You know they don't!

You also know that 90% of the small town cops would do just about anything to get on with a real force! They just can't cut it!

That bein said, we still need them....Just be careful....this is where Rambo lives!

I'm not a cop hater! (tough for me to figure out why anybody would want a job where everybody lies to you) hell I think most of them do a great job that needs doin.

No...Jack! I can't do better than this! If doubting the inteligence of a knuckle dragger who interpretates. ( If you are innocent, fight it for sure! BUT... TAKE AN ATTORNEY!) into COP HATER..... destroys all my credibility on this board..... so be it!


herm

Hey everyone,

Jack was obviously there, and knows Josh deserved the hassle he got.

NOT !!

Ok herm, I'm done with my .02. I would be interested to know how Josh's court date works out. He will have to post the officer's notes though for me to give him any kind of credibility. I'm not satisfied with just one side of the story. Provided that he posts the notes honestly.

Off the subject...If anybody can answer this. I indent and double space between paragraphs. Everytime I add my reply though, it posts all bunched up and not orderly. Any suggestions? Jack

Dan S. was obviously there, and knows that the cop deserves the bad mouthing that Josh has given him.

Not!

I'm just sticking up for the cops because it is apparent that only a few others will. Josh made his statement and many backed up his claim without knowing the other side of the story. For people who supposedly support the police, they sure are quick to call them wrong.

Jack

Jack,
By any chance are you a cop?? I see you are a city of Tacoma employee. Will you also be sticking up for Tacoma's EX-Chief??? It seems like you think cops can do no wrong. But my opinion is they are just people some are jerks some are not some power trip some do not some have PMS some dont. And there are afew that shouldnt be cops at all.

Hey, Einstein, YOU were the one calling everyone cop haters and saying Josh had no credibility. Well, YOU have none either.

People suggested he hire an attorney.....and that is sage advice. If the cop did nothing wrong, then he has nothing to worry about if his Chief gets a letter from an attorney. If he did act unprofessionally, then he deserves what is coming to him.

Did you have some advice for Josh, or did you just stop by to let us all know that all cops are angels, and everyone who gets stopped or harassed deserves it?

No, I am not a cop. I have been exposed to many, and all have been good guys. I feel that they don't deserve the tongue lashing they are getting.

I can't even comment on Tacoma's ex-chief. That thing is such a huge nutroll! I don't think any city in the US has ever had to deal with anything like that. I wouldn't even know where to start. No, I don't support the ex's actions. Duh!

Dan S., Most, not all,of the posts here have been bad mouthing cops. You don't show up with your comments until someone tries to stick up for them. What's the deal?

Really guys, I'd rather talk about fishing. We can go in circles about the cops. None of us are going to change our minds. Besides, I type tooo slow to keep up with the board. Jack

Whatever happened to "innocent untill Proven guilty" ???

Ok everyone, you are all arguing about my situation and you all have good points.

You are right I am not saying the cops half of the story, and you all have every reason not to beleive me. What I know is what I posted a while ago, and that is all I know. I will find out more on May 19th then let you know how it went.

Maybe the cop was having a bad night, who knows.

Thanks to all of you guys. I really appreaciate the support you are giving me and all fo the advice. It means alot to me THANKS

Jack;

IMHO, your typing isn't all that's too slow!

Just my .03 worth.

herm

Ok, I went to court last night, and here is what happend

I went to check in and my name was not in the computer and they realized that the officer made a mistake on my ticket. They did not tell me what kind of mistake. So they are going to mail the ticket back to him and fix it then they are going to mail me a letter telling me when my new court date will be.

Jack

You said

"He will have to post the officer's notes though for me to give him any kind of credibility"Why would an officer's notes carry any more credibility than Josh's word?

Unless you KNOW either Josh, or the Officer personally it would be foolish to believe one over the other.

Wouldn't it be nice to hear both sides? JACK

Hey Jack, this isnt Court TV, its a fishing forum and a fellow fisherman who i have no reason not to believe, your getting a little out of line.

$490? Sounds close to the ticket for no Insurance... If this is your first offence, it's likely you'll get it redueced if you contest it...