Well spoken eddie You are not as lonely as you may think

Eddie,

Being totally honest and having high ideals is fine. But trust me on this, it wouldn't matter HOW decent and humane we were, these people hate us for religious, political AND economic reasons. They want to "off" us period. This isn't the first administration that has mislead the rest of the world, and it won't be the last.

I agree that some day, we will no longer be the superpower. We can try to prolong it though. I think GW thinks he has.

Marsha,

One point of clarification, who are "these people"? Are you talking about the Governments of so-called Islamic republics, are you talking about the populations, or are we talking the sum total of 1 Billion Muslims throughout the world? This is not a rhetorical question, I truly am interested in understanding your perspective.

Excellent question Rich.

Here is my take...

No, it does not matter. War with Iraq was as predictable as the sunrise. It would have happened regardless of how it was sold to the American public the rest of the world because of 9/11. Whether or not they had WMD was just an attempt to galvanize the international community into a coalition. Seems the rest of the world did not buy into that line...

If the USA is looking to improve its 'security' I submit to you that alienating the UN, NATO and arab countries is not a very wise place to start.

Just removing a brutal dictator from power is all the justification we need for our soldiers and innocent civilians to kill and be killed? Ok...when do we go get Kim Jong Il?? ...after all, isn't he starving millions of his own people to death to feed his army? Better yet, lets start knocking off the problem countries (we'll start with the middle east and then work our way downto the commies and third world countries) until the whole world is Democratic...does anyone see the parallels between communist pathos and the direction of 'New American Foreign Policy'?

I seem to recall that diplomacy HAS worked in the past to bring down 'brutal' regimes, apartheid being one succes that comes to mind.

Lasting Peace has never and will never occur by the use of force.

Sorry for not being specific.

Anyone believing in a "Jihad" against the US and any foreign terrorist group intent on harming US citizens or it's interests.

1. If a Democrat was in office not word one would be said about WMDs if the roles were reversed, from the left

2. If an election were near as is now and #1 applied(see above) the Republicans would be doing the same thing.

3. Since an election is fast approaching, the Democrat talking points are flying through cyberspace and corralling the naive and the impressionables.

4. The WMDs are a non-issue. (see RES. 1441) and all subsequent non-compliance of the U.N. sanctions, dis-armament, accounting of the WMDs that he did have or may still. And violations of human rights.(where is Amnesty Intl ?)

5. Speaking of rights groups, why does the A.C.L.U back all Constitutional amendments other than the 2nd? Just a point to ponder.

6. IMHO

Marsha,

Thanks for the clarification. What percentage do you believe that those people account for in the Muslim world? This really isn't a smarta** question, I have not been able to get to that number as yet. I vacillate between believing that most people in the world care about food, shelter, and the welfare of their kids; or that most really live their life according to a political or religious dogma. I would be interested in your thoughts.

Eddie,

No idea either. Won't it be interesting though, if the Iraqi "experiment" of democracy brings a higher standard of living to the previously poor in Iraq?

What matters is that in the court of world opinion, President Bush has perjured his office.
However, in that venue, nobody is held accountable - although as Americans we should be profoundly concerned that we've been purposely and repeatedly lied to.

For a view from a legal viewpoint - is lying to create a pretext for war an impeachable offense? - check out this law site:

http://writ.news.findlaw.com/dean/20030606.html

BW-Touche, always be proud to serve. There are some actions that don't always make sense militarily, and even though you do your job, you know that there is no logical reason for it and the one in command has his head up his rectal cavity. Still, you do your job to the best of your ability and hold your head high. From what I remember, the marines on the ground were not given ammo for their weapons in Haiti just so we didn't shoot someone and cause an uprising. It is silly to use our military might, but then tie their hands behind their back. That's what I meant by an embarrasment. Didn't mean to ruffle any feathers!

Not to worry, no problem here. There are not too many places in the world where you can count on the military doing there best to carry out what the politicians want not matter if they agree with it or not.

Thata boy Richie. It's nice to see your name on the board again. Especially posting what you did.

Gary, Pretty fascinating article. Hard to paint John Dean as a lefty - actually pretty hard to paint him as anything, which in my mind lends credence to his article. Although he did cite the "Iraq swims on a sea of Oil" statement and I have yet to determine if that is true at all. Personally, I sincerely hope that we find internationally verifiable evidence of the WMD. If not, I can see some radical Democrat (McDermott comes to mind) introducing Articles of Impeachment as we prepare for the 2004 election. Make no mistake about it, there are plenty of Democrats who are very steamed about the Clinton impeachment. Steamed enough to do the same to GW? I hope not, I don't think this country would do well with a second impeachment within 6 years.

Aunty, I wish I knew the answer to my original question as well. I would love to know the size of our enemy. It will be interesting to see the form and outcome of the Iraqi democratic Government. Clearly, that offers the best hope for long-term stability in the Arab world and the best possible outcome of our war with Iraq.

You guys are really on a roll...You should all get together and start a cable radio show...
" We Hate Bush All The Time Radio" No matter what he does we hate it! 24/7...........There is something to be said for a dictatorship sometimes...You would all be taken to the showers...

Spoken in true Nazi fashion.

Remember, he gassed the old and infirm to...you'd be next.

Grandpa,

Is something interferring with your reading comprehension? Most of the posts in this thread are of a like mind, supporting the war and its outcome thus far, despite the lack of WMD evidence. I've observed that you have a beef with everything "liberal", but you just appear to have your nose out of joint with respect to this thread.

Sincerely,

Salmo g.

Careful Salmo, you made what could have been construed as drug reference when you said 'joint'...

....expect to be trolled with Cheech and Chong references for the rest of your BB life...

So I guess the larger issue is, "Should we believe the government, regardless of who is in office?" Do they have a good track record? What about the government concealing chemical weapons tests in the Utah in the 70's? What about vietnam and agent orange? The list could go on foreverer but somehow we're being asked to really believe this one...So ask yourself again, "Do you believe what the government says?" Or do you only believe them when it comes to this last issue with Iraq?

Rich G,
You've managed to take the most repeated political topic in the news, paste it to a fishing forum, and get the emotional response anyone could predict. All emotion, little understanding of true politics, and most importantly, no piscatorial content. You might also either want to type slower, use spell check, or have a dictionary by your side when trying to start a thread that has no significance to the pursuit of fish. WMD, please, let me here about the springers in the Sol Duc!

Did you read the title of the thread? Did you notice it wasn't related to fishing? Why did you read it if you are here to just read about fishing?

...looks to me like you'd rather troll than post your actual opinion.

Why don't you go find a nice, comfortable 'boondoggin the cowlitz' thread where you can post your opinion on such important things as: 'One cheater or two?' or 'bait size for boondoggin'?