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#232346 - 02/09/04 04:59 PM Unclipped hatchery fish
STRAWBERRY Offline
Smolt

Registered: 12/02/03
Posts: 84
Loc: Puyallup, Wash.
About a year or so ago Congressman Norm Dicks got legislation passed that required any hatchery program that used federal funding to fin clip thier salmon and steelhead, given the game commissions ruling on wild steelhead release this is more important than ever, what I would like to know is when and if this is going to be implemented or whether the tribes have found some way to delay or not do it at all.

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#232347 - 02/09/04 05:11 PM Re: Unclipped hatchery fish
Mr. Twister Offline
Returning Adult

Registered: 01/06/01
Posts: 345
Loc: wa
I understand that by and large hatchery steelhead are fin clipped. I also understand that the WDFW does not fin clip some "small" number of fish to allow them to carry their hatchery genetics in the case of a bad return of hatchery fish, thus saving the hatchery gene pool from extinction.
_________________________
Give a man a fish, and you'll feed him for a day; give him a religion, and he'll starve to death while praying for a fish.

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#232348 - 02/09/04 05:14 PM Re: Unclipped hatchery fish
seastrike Offline
Hey Man....It's cool...

Registered: 08/18/02
Posts: 4242
Loc: seattle
I caught three Kings that had chips in their head but no clipped fin last summer.

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#232349 - 02/09/04 05:40 PM Re: Unclipped hatchery fish
Jaydee Offline
2010 SRC Champion!

Registered: 12/19/03
Posts: 968
Loc: Paradise City!
Quote:
Originally posted by seastrike:
I caught three Kings that had chips in their head but no clipped fin last summer.
Seastrike. Last year we brought a few chinooks to port, that when sampled by the fish checkers, had coded wire tags in their heads.

Vaguely remember something about Dicks and marking hatchery fish, but I've seen quite a few unmarked (all adipose/ventral fins intact) steelhead lately that were determined to be of hatchery origin.
Just glad to have the oppurtunity to fish.

J.D.
_________________________
RIP Tyler Greer. May Your seas be calm, and filled with "tig'ol'bings"!


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#232350 - 02/09/04 06:54 PM Re: Unclipped hatchery fish
Fishingjunky15 Offline
Spawner

Registered: 03/22/03
Posts: 860
Loc: Puyallup, WA
Think about it. Your not going to be able to clip every singe hatchery fish out of 500, 000 fish. You are going to get some that aren't clipped.
_________________________
They say that the man that gets a Ph.D. is the smart one. But I think that the man that learns how to get paid to fish is the smarter one.

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#232351 - 02/09/04 07:15 PM Re: Unclipped hatchery fish
STRAWBERRY Offline
Smolt

Registered: 12/02/03
Posts: 84
Loc: Puyallup, Wash.
I agree fj15, you cant clip every last fish but if this selective fishery is going to work the tribes are going to have to clip more than 10 or 20 % of their fish.

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#232352 - 02/09/04 07:19 PM Re: Unclipped hatchery fish
Jaydee Offline
2010 SRC Champion!

Registered: 12/19/03
Posts: 968
Loc: Paradise City!
Quote:
Originally posted by STRAWBERRY:
I agree fj15, you cant clip every last fish but if this selective fishery is going to work the tribes are going to have to clip more than 10 or 20 % of their fish.
Yup, on those particular rivers anyway. (like the Salmon on the olypen)
_________________________
RIP Tyler Greer. May Your seas be calm, and filled with "tig'ol'bings"!


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#232353 - 02/09/04 07:25 PM Re: Unclipped hatchery fish
pillarking Offline
Parr

Registered: 08/06/03
Posts: 53
Loc: Marysville
In September of 2003 a fish checker at Sekiu told me that in 2004 every hatchery receiving federal money would receive the machine that clips the fins. Apparently the fry pass through and are automatically clipped.
By receiving this machine would also be required to clip 100% of the fish.
If this machine does it's job it would be possible to clip 500,000 out of 500,000. This is hear say at best but one that I would like to believe.
I'm hopeing to learn more this year about this topic.

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#232354 - 02/09/04 07:51 PM Re: Unclipped hatchery fish
snit Offline
Three Time Spawner

Registered: 03/08/99
Posts: 1819
Loc: Wenatchee, WA
Pillar has it right! 500K is no problem for the machine, but the volunteers have done great for years if a river was "adopted" by them, it's just a little incentive from Norm that has kicked the feds in the butt. But I think that was for federal sponsored monies, ie salmon hatcheries, not steelhead. I could be wrong, but there was an article in STS a year or 2 ago on this same topic.

And forget about forcing the tribes to do anything!!! If you don't like letting unclipped hatchery fish go on a tribe planted river, then don't fish it. That's the stance I've heard before.
_________________________
..."the clock looked at me just like the devil in disguise"...

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#232355 - 02/09/04 07:58 PM Re: Unclipped hatchery fish
Finegrain Offline
Returning Adult

Registered: 06/05/00
Posts: 478
Loc: Woodinville, WA, USA
Actually, if the fin clipping retention is enforced, then the tribes are motivated to make sure all their smolts are clipped, because they know that they could only harvest the clipped ones, whether they came from the hatchery or not.

The only way one would be motivated to keep clipping inefficient is if you are against retention at all.
_________________________
Regards.

Finegrain
Woodinville

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#232356 - 02/09/04 09:44 PM Re: Unclipped hatchery fish
ParaLeaks Offline
WINNER

Registered: 01/11/03
Posts: 10363
Loc: Olypen
Finegrain.....huh? Nets don't care, or am I missing what you're saying? beer
_________________________
Agendas kill truth.
If it's a crop, plant it.




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#232357 - 02/09/04 10:39 PM Re: Unclipped hatchery fish
snit Offline
Three Time Spawner

Registered: 03/08/99
Posts: 1819
Loc: Wenatchee, WA
I think what is being forgotten is that the tribes don't have to abide by US laws. They're a sovereign nation, so the rules don't always apply. Some tribes can posess bald eagle feathers (or other endangered stuff), and the feds don't care. So they're surely not going to care about a little ol' fish frown !
_________________________
..."the clock looked at me just like the devil in disguise"...

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#232358 - 02/09/04 10:52 PM Re: Unclipped hatchery fish
Iron Head Offline
Returning Adult

Registered: 12/12/00
Posts: 447
Loc: tacoma, Washington, US
Who said they can't clip 100% smolt.
It is a matter of desire, having compitent workers, and quality assurance.
You don't have to be a rocket scientist to pick up a tranquil fish and clip its fin.
_________________________
Know fish or no fish.

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#232359 - 02/09/04 10:53 PM Re: Unclipped hatchery fish
STRAWBERRY Offline
Smolt

Registered: 12/02/03
Posts: 84
Loc: Puyallup, Wash.
snit
I think they will have to obey this law if they want to continue recieve federal funding for there hatcheries.

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#232360 - 02/10/04 02:32 AM Re: Unclipped hatchery fish
snit Offline
Three Time Spawner

Registered: 03/08/99
Posts: 1819
Loc: Wenatchee, WA
'Berry, I don't know. Maybe.

I still say, "Good Luck" to whomever is trying to get the natives to change anything in a hatchery that's on a reservation, servicing a "native" river (ie Quinalt, like Cook Creek for example). Very seldom does the Federal Government "strongarm" the tribes into doing anything.

Here in Eastern Washington, the Colville's and Yakima's are able to do about anyting in a watershed that they want. On or off the rez. In fact, they're planting coho in the Icicle and Nason Creek (upper Wenatchee trib) drainages, without state approval. Not that I'm against it, but it's already been proven that alot of our watersheds can't sustain all of the existing salmon/steelhead pressure, and now there's a new species being introduced? What I'm getting at is, I haven't seen any entity stand up to a tribe yet, so I doubt that the feds will, especially over clipping hatchery fish.
_________________________
..."the clock looked at me just like the devil in disguise"...

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#232361 - 02/10/04 03:02 AM Re: Unclipped hatchery fish
Anonymous
Unregistered


Now according to one of the hatchery managers on the cascade those clipping machines save alot of manpower but they are not as efficient as the people they hire to do it. (Mind you, this was a couple of years ago so there may have been technolocal advancements since then)

The machines will only take a certain size of smolt... anything over or under is rejected, to be clipped by hand anyway. The machines have more partialy clipped fins and believe it or not their not as fast their human counterparts. Not one to one faster but you get a group of people together and they can burn thru a pile of smolts quicker than the machine.

someone correct me if I'm speaking of outdated machinery... huh

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