I think that outdoor writers, "educators", and posters should disclose when/if they get discounts/compensation/free stuff from gear, boat manufacturers, lodge owners, etc..

This would help me at least. I would like to know when opinions have been bought. Bought is OK, I just want to know so I can consider it.

example: I know of two "experts" who claim a 4:1 advantage for a certain *-chip flasher...rubbish...I had a 100 King year and I can say the *-chip lost (to std H-_pot_ and also delaminated. Bud of mine who had similar year has same data.

thoughts?

Welcome aboard!

Wow, nice way to introduce yourself.

Awright, awright, the oars that came with my diamondback were wrapped and I didn't have to pay for it.

Okay Aunty, I'm comin clean too, I got two flashers free last year from a certain charter captain.
JDavis, welcome aboard, but really....do you believe everything a fisherman claims or says? Remember we are fishermen and I have yet to meet one that did not stretch the truth or the fish.

Steve

JDavis;

Yours is a legitimate question/issue. I will try to answer as best I can. Most established outdoor writers receive steep discounts or totally free products. I believe most would be ethical enough to not let that color their endorsements, but am not so naive as to believe it never happens.

I do think overall our record is pretty good. For example, established writers can get Loomis, Lamiglas, Sage and other rods at a major discount or sometimes for free. Given that they can choose whichever brands they wish to use it seem likely that they choose the one they like best and naturally would recommend that product.


Almost all line manufacturers will give established writers line for free. (Similar programs are often offered to top guides as well.) I have recently recommended Berkley Ironsilk, not because I get it free, but because I really like it.

I often recommend Dick Nite spoons, which I buy at retail. I recommend them because they work.

I do not know whom you were referring to regarding the flashers, but can't imagine too many guys willing to sell their soul for a handful of free flashers. But I know such things do happen. I guess like in anything else you need to do your own homework and remain a bit skeptical.

I get free stuff but would only brag about it if it was quality gear and also if it really works. The tackle business is a for profit business and endorsements are part of the game. If the products are good and the right person endorses them they will sell . If a product turns out to be inferior it won't sell for long.

Oh don't forget to use Scotty downriggers and Silver Horde tackle....hahaha

JD-- What Dave says is pretty much on the money. Our reputations depend upon our integrity and ethics. If we sell out, then the reading public will eventually find out as will our editors. When we lose our integrity, we're out of business.

Bad recommendations happen for a lot of reasons. Sometimes the communicator is misled by exaggerated claims from the manufacturer (this happened to me once, and I've learned from THAT mistake), or the communicator had one really good experience and didn't evaluate the product long enough or in enough different situations to find that it didn't work as well as he originally thought, and of course, the communicator could be trying to make the manufacturer (sometimes an advertiser) feel good.

Certainly, there is fraud in the outdoor communications game; I've seen it happen personally once; that guy no longer works in the field. I've heard of it happening in other situations, but usually it's at the "entry level"-- done by people who are hobby writers or beginners. For the most part, frauds don't last long. Most established writers work to avoid strong links with manufacturers because readers and editors could construe that communicator as "bought".

Here's an example of how most editors regard this writer/manufacturer connection: I wrote some catalog copy for a rod manufacturer. They by-lined the copy when they used it, and one of my editors chewed me pretty thoroughly because of that. I was told that if it happened again, I would no longer be able to write about rods for her magazine. She insists on keeping her writers "clean" of any commercial taint. That experience has guided me ever since.

For my own self, I don't let a free trip, a free rod or even a free boat (I wish) color my work. If I mention a product it's because I've found it works or I've interviewed someone who says it works. If I mention a product a lot, it's because I use it a lot. To provide balance, I usually try to mention other similar products (if I know they'll work) as alternatives to my choice.

As a writer, if I was "bought" to use your term, I would have to let you know, if only by a phrase like: "As a pro-staffer for XYZ bait company, I've found that the XYZ Big Dipper works..."

Sorry about your bad experience; it's not typical, but it does happen, sometimes for innocent reasons.

My $.02,

Keith

Though not a writer, I have received quite a few free items in the past, presumably under the umbrella of "field testing".

As of yet, I've never given a recommendation for any of the stuff that I've used, outside of requests from friends regarding the quality of what I've been using, which I've given, and reports back to the manufacturer/supplier.

I think that Dave and KJ nailed it...it's not typical, but it's always a good policy to consider the source when reading recommendations.

Fish on...

Todd

P.S. DaveV, how was the Vedder/Chilliwack? It looks like I'm heading up there a week from this coming Wednesday...want to go back up? I'm drivin'...

Thanks for the wide and varied thread. Seems the range is from self-policing to maintain reputation to letting the editor do it. While I mentioned a single case, many come to mind: Springer guides switching rods based only on number of free rods. (Granted they were switching between Loomis and Lamiglas)

There is a parallel to the financial markets - and reform of late. Brokers and even financial writers used to say "conflict of interest is rare" Now many are required to disclose financial/business ties or if they own or short a specific stock. Why they are now required to is very well known..I am not suggesting regulation for the outdoors industry, just more info. Frankly some writers already do it.

Keith, Dave:

you really wrote great replys, thanks

I posted a thread on the particular e chip flasher, and most of the results I got from other fisherman is that the flasher is of poor construction, and needs improvement. I originally asked about the flasher because of a popular local websites endorsement. Great thread Davis.

cool, I will search that topic

I should have done that b4 buying them

I got caught up in the arms race

Having a regular product review column in Flyfishing & Tying Journal, I receive products for review on a regular basis. If it is a product that I think will interest our readers, I'll do my best to give it a thorough workout. If it's obviously junk, I'll usually contact the manufacturer and let him know why I'm not going to write it up. Sometimes the manufacturer requests that the product be returned after the review, sometimes not, sometimes it's offered to me at a substantial discount But I try, as I'm sure most other reviewers do, to maintain an ethical attitude toward the whole thing. I would never think of hyping a product that I didn't think was worthwhile.

Okay, I'll confess, I recieved a free Brads Wiggler last season at the sportsman's show(but then didn't everyone.) And there were those "free" hooks for an evaluation of the Tru Turn salmon hooks (oh, nevermind, they are not going to be making those.)

Vision siwash hooks suck total a**...and I have not been paid for this free negative advertising.

I can honestly say that the staff and gear at Deja Vu and Stilleto's gentlemen's clubs have improved my fishing for many years.

I have talked with the owner of Pro-Troll over a different subject. During the course of that conversation, he indicated there was a problem with some of the adhesion on the earlier fabricated flashers. This has been resolved. He said good glue will resolve or you can replace the laminate. He said he will guarantee the new ones. If it comes off, contact Pro-Troll with your concerns.

Steve

two posts (the other on the e-chip thread) claim that pro-Troll will make all right and that product is now right.

I sent e-mail direct to pro-Troll via company website about 2 weeks ago...no response...

I am in no way affiliated with the anchovy lobby when I recommend cut plug herring although I'm sure the little buggers appreciate the reduced competition.

Free loomis and lami's Dave my good friend?

Oh come on. Those hooks work fine...except when the eyes snap in half on you during the crimping process, or when the hooks just explodes on you when you have a fish on!

Hey Eric, I have a few 100 packs of Vision 2/0 Siwash hooks I'd be more than happy to send to you.

I ain't gonna use them.......



"Give it to Parker! He'll try any hook!"

"Uh...no. Not these."