fj,

Bitch all you want about it...but you won't change anything, and then you'll just bitch about it some more.

Get involved in your government, they're your representatives, after all.

You have all the right in America to bitch, but if you don't participate, don't bitch where I can hear it...I have the right not to listen to people who don't care enough to be involved, but do care enough to whine about what other people do.

Fish on...

Todd

Todd,

I think the writers of the Constitution considered complaining in a public forum a valid and very important form of participation in our government, that's why they took the steps they did to protect that right.

I would disagree that complaining about something our government has done will not result in a change, to think any differently, in my opinion, simply means to give up and not participate at all. The history books are full of laws that have been changed or taken off the books because of "squeaky wheels".

You certainly have the right to not listen, I wouldn't argue with that at all. I would consider it a foolish thing to do though if you are trying to debate the topic with the people complaining about it.

I agree with you that we as citizens should be involved in public affairs but with an emphasis on should.

You have no idea what my involvement in our government is, I get the impression that you think I have no involvement in it at all. I find that more than a little odd given the nature of this thread and the fact that we don't even know each other.

FishonJohn, I don't know you, or Todd, but you cast the first stone when you said Todd should go back to law school. You then get upset on your second post. I still agree with Todd. If you see the government doing something you don't like, you need to get involved. Contact your Rep, write letters, go to the media, stage a protest, be a squeaky wheel publicly. To just complain about something, and not do anything is the way bad bills get made law.

I make no assumptions about your particular involvement, fj...I just take exception to defending those who don't participate, yet complain about the result...if you are one of those, then it applies to you, if not, then it doesn't.

Seems to me that there are a few people on this thread who:

1. Don't like the requirement
2. Are suprised by the requirement, and therefore
3. Obviously don't keep tabs on what their representatives are doing on their behalf.

It applies to them, that's for sure...and whoever started the rant about it being the fault of "the liberals", they just need to do some research rather than knee-jerk complain about something that they clearly know nothing about...bipartisan sponsorship and unanimous support all throughout the process...that includes their pet "conservatives", too.

Though a very small issue (a sticker), this thread typifies the usual reaction of an ignorant electorate...don't know what is going on out there, and when something happens they don't like, blame it on the wrong people, usually someone they don't like, rather than take any responsibility for either their own actions/inactions, including doing minimal research to at least figure out what the hell they are talking about before flapping their jaws.

Fish on...

Todd

Todd and Fish Hunter ahve pretty well summed up my feeling on the subject of CO poisoning and Civics 101.

Todd answer your own dang phone when I call. It took me all of 15 seconds to figure out I was talking with Rylee.
I've got a gal coming over with all ingredients to make me fish tacos (says they are better than mine) tonight.
Yeah I know this has nothing to do with stickers or politics or lawyers but I'm cool with that.

Excellent post, Seastrike.

I was driving, so I let SkyGuy handle the communications. Fish tacos sound good...I'm having steelhead tonight.

I don't mind if you hijack the thread to talk about completely irrelevant, and in the main, unimportant side issues...I'm used to that in conversations with my fishing partners, and since we have fished together in the past, it's not only understandable, but inevitable.

Did you put the sticker on your boat? Are you going to stop "teak skiing" when the fishing is slow?

Fish on...

Todd

Todd, that is classic, and so true.

[censored] man a couple of months ago I thought about eating the teak...but thankfully got over that. I'm back in action.
I have not opened my envellope with my sticker but assume after reading this that there is an extra one in there.
ps I think I met Marcelll for a reason.
Gotta mull that over for a while.
dave

TT,
I'm a little at a loss to understand exactly where you're coming from here. I'll admit to a little sarcasm in my first post on this thread although I would be a little reluctant to call it throwing stones but if you want to call it that go ahead. If I offended Todd with that comment he can say so and I'll appologize publicly for it. I've read this thread several times and I really don't see how you came up with I was "upset" in my second post, all I was trying to do was state my point of view. Todd is stating his point of view also, it's called a discussion. Because we disagree does not mean either of us is upset, I'm not and I don't believe Todd is either.

Todd,
I'm not really talking about this sticker on CO poisoning and I haven't stated what I think about that. I'm trying to say that people complaining about what they consider to be an improper governmental intrusion into their private affairs is being involved in the process in my opinion and is exactly what the First Amendment is about. Dessent does not have to take place before our government has acted and is just as valid, if not more so, afterward. My personal opinion is that involvement on ANY level is good and should be encouraged rather than made fun of.
Just so you don't think I'm playing games with the CO sticker it's a non-issue as far as i'm concerned. You know as well as I do that just because the Legislature passes a law does not mean anything is going to happen or change. The Litter Bag Law is a very good example of legislation like this.

Can't argue with much in that post, fj...and I'm not offended or upset, not in the least...

Fish on...

Todd

Todd -
I gotta tell you that that 'don't complain if you aren't in the game' is almost word for word what my Dad (rip) said to me more than once. Actually, enough times so I could almost mouth the words if he was saying it. It rings as true now as it did 45 years ago, the first time he gave it to me.

There are really two parts to my rant in this thread...

The first is the "if you don't participate in your government, then stop whining about how it operates"...I think my feelings are pretty clear on that. If you unfortunately find out after the fact, like the surprise of having to put a stupid sticker on your boat's transom, then by all means complain...but don't just complain, take it as an opportunity to decide to not be so surprised the next time...start keeping tabs on the folks who make laws about the things that are important to you, go and testify for or against things that affect those things, or at least mail in some testimony.

Make your opinions known to your legislators, and vote against the ones who go against your wishes, and vote for the ones who do.

The second part of my rant is directed more towards whoever decided it must be the "liberals"...and that part of the rant is the one where I say "if you don't know what you're talking about, you'd be better off to keep your trap shut".

In this case, the bill was co-sponsored by people from both parties, passed unanimously out of committee, where there are both R's and D's, and passed unanimously again in the Senate and House, where there are a whole bunch more R's and D's.

Seems to me those "damn liberals" were to blame...but no more than those "dip$hit conservatives" were...

It's not like the information is hard to find...obviously anyone writing on this thread has a computer with internet access, take five minutes to research it...that's all the time it took me to find out all the information I needed.

Fish on...

Todd

So I gather that some of you think that you can be in every "game" that affects you? I don't think that is what life is about. At some point a person has to say, "I hope they get it right." and trust in the character of those elected. Well, they just don't get it right sometimes. Shall we all sit silently by, or shall we shout "Enough already!"?

I'll complain and become involved as I see fit, when I see fit. The problem as I see it is there are just too many folks with too much time on their hands and too much concern about "What does my neighbor need to change next?"

Here's something to consider. It became apparent to me a week or two ago just how much recent generations of people have been groomed by slanted data thrown at them from every direction. And with no living knowledge of what the past was like, they buy into it and promote it with fervor. The older folks who have been here know what's up. It is not my intention to discredit the more recent populace, but rather to make aware that blind acceptance of the multitude of proclaimed crises is it's own sentence. I know some would like to think that the world just couldn't make it without them....sorry....wrong. This place was here before you and I came along and it will be here when we leave. A lot like taking your hand out of a bucket of water......like it was never there.

BTW....I would have bought into a voluntary sticker if it was accompanied with something like, "We could really use your help. Please help us inform the ignorant."

I am pretty much against legislating in away that makes me responsible for other peoples stupidity. That said, it seems that teak surfing has caused enough heartache it seems to be a pretty minor inconvience.
Now for the hijack....
Todd,
Saying that we need to get more involved is easier said then done. I work with county government all the time, know almost all the players, and still get slammed with stuff that comes out of nowhere. Try sitting in on a community plan at 6pm to 9 pm for two years, where there is no set agenda, and for weeks they argue about where they will put a train station that won't ever exist. I walked out on that one after the 2nd meeting and never went back. I did talk to the people working on it and the only reason they kept coming was that they had to. I have seen Pierce County pass new building codes but not even have the code available for the public or their workers until after they passed it. It is great waiting around on your butt while the county officals try to find out what the new ordinance actually requires. I get involved when I can, and even have had a couple of ordinances changed to take care of problems I ran into. Sure I could have fought the ordinances when they were being passed, if, they were readily available and I had unlimited time. If you can follow every ordinance that is proposed locally, statewide and nationally then I hold you in awe. I know that I have a hard enough time just following the ones I care about. The way things work around here, I have almost given up doing anything until the very end and then I look over the ordinance for mistakes or stupidity and then deal with it then. And yes, I do feel the right to complain. If it was up to us to follow every stupid law government passes, then the legislature could simply suggest policy and we could all vote on it. We vote for people that are supposed to spend their time doing our best interest. In my district, it is so slanted everyone in local politics were from one party and ran unopposed. Not surprisingly, the majority voted for that party 100% of the time locally and nationally. Unfortunately, it is not the party I like. So, do I complain. You bet. So, should I run around knocking on doors every election and call my representives everytime they vote, even though I know the outcome before hand. You can do that for me if you want. I will be out fishing. Besides, I love to complain. Please don't take that away from me. If you did I would probably end up like Vince bleeding somewhere where I shouldn't be bleeding.
Oh, and Vince, if you read this you have both my best wishes and prayers for a quick recovery.

carbon monoxide, eh?

I just glanced at the sticker and thought it has something to do with 420...

I am not going to take sides here as you both make good points ... but Todd to think you can follow everything our goverment is doing and be involved is unrealistic, It would be a full time job at the least. Who's got time for that? unless you are in the goverment with your finger on the pulse.
At some point you have to trust those you have voted in to do the right thing. I feel if you voted in the first place you have the right to b!tch about the choices they make and try to keep up on whats important to you ...but some things are still going to sneek by. I do agree before you point a finger though have your facts straight.

Statistically speaking, death's and/or injury caused by this behavior have to be so low that it shouldn't have been at the top of anyone's "to do" list in our legislature. The list I am talking about is the "list" of human stupidity. Take the number of deaths/injuries caused by "teaking" and divide that by the people that register a boat plus their guests. The result has to be a very low number. It ended up making someone in the legistslature feel good about what they just did and now they can move onto something else. What a waste of resources......

To be consistent, If our state is going to issue stickers as a result of extremely low death rate bad behavior (combustion engines release gases that will kill you AND turning propellors will tear you up.....DUHH!!!!) then we all can name other acts of stupidity that cause more harm then this one. I bet this got the attention of someone in our legislature and he/she decided to champion it.......who is going to vote "No"? It was easier to vote yes and get it out of the way so they could get onto bigger and better things instead of argueing over this one (the bill that enacted the sticker).

Bottom line, I got my stickers.....I smiled when I saw what it said....stuck one on each of my boats......knew it was going to do very little to reduce the low number of deaths a year.....felt it did more to make someone feel he/she was doing their job.....and that next year my fee will be funding a sticker that I will be throwing away because I've already got two!

No, I didn't do any research except to voice my opinion on the matter.

"make it look like they are doing something. "
Just like WDFW with Sparky's law , knotless nets, etc. The CG boaters card.

We elect our representatives expecting common sense. We don't have the time to watch them like hawks. I work more hours than they do. Some see this stuff AS common sense.....what could it hurt......others, me, see this stuff as a colossal waste of time (theirs and mine) and money with a net result of zero. Besides, I kind of like darwinism which rids the world of idiots.