S.G. gave us a key reason, I think, that the status of our fish stocks are so poor-

So far, it seems to me that our state has emphasized maintaining the fisheries, without realizing that we have to maintain and protect the resources FIRST! Otherwise, we're not going to have any fisheries, sport or commercial. All too often, it seems WDFW errors on the side of harvest, rather than conservation. Maybe we need a legislative mandate to set/re-set the priorities?

When I went to the SSMP meeting, in Wenatchee, I was quite disappointed to hear Jim Buck pretty much dismiss the idea of the department using it's regulatory power, (or seeking more), to deal with habitat/hydro issues. Just more of the same, I guess. Of course, the department's kind of in a Faustian deal with the PUDs over here, and their (the PUDs') mitigation money. At this point, I suspect any agency bios that made too much noise, about the overwhelming takings of ESA listed fish by hydro projects, would get a severe reprimand, if not the boot.

I was also disappointed to see that the department's idea of Outreach was just to simply partner with groups on projects. My wife has been doing community outreach for years, and I learned long ago that the first step in outreach is public education about a problem- that way you gain more partners with which to work towards solutions. My own sense, from dealing with the general public, is that most people have no real sense of how bad off our stocks are, and what the biggest problems are facing those stocks.

Dolphin- I've been concerned about our reliance on hatchery fish and not just because of the potential for genetics issues. There are also displacement issues, such as hatchery spawners competing for space with wild spawners and hatchery smolts competing for food with wild smolts. There's also the harvest pressures that come with abundant hatchery runs. Unfortunately, not all fishing methods are as selective as hook and line fisheries.

I think it's all a damn shame, as salmonids are our own regions "Golden Goose" (Geese?), and we're killing them off.

Pisco Sicko,

The point that the resource needs to be protected and thus the habitat issues come to the forefront are probably mostly agreed to by most in the sportfishing community. This is another reason why I support the idea of a tribal/sportfishing alliance because they seem to be the only players in the equation with the political clout to affect change. They also have the added factor of understanding that harvest is central to management. As the pendulum swings from industrial and hydro issues to environmental we need to be careful that our interests are preserved.

I can better understand and accept the potential idea of hatchery fish competition with wild fish, but isn't the argument that hatchery fish CAN'T compete with natural fish?

When do you, and others who support putting the fish first support the use hatcheries or other methods of enhancing numbers for harvest ?

Thanks for the discussion, I am learning tons.

Hatchery fish tend to be a double whammy when it comes to competition with wild fish...

1. They compete with wild fish for spawning territory, and the eggs they lay do hatch and produce juveniles. Those juveniles compete with wild fish for feeding, rearing, and winter flood protection terrirtories...not to mention competing for scarce food resources.

2. After all of that, all the fish go to sea and presumably there is some competition for space and food in the estuary, at least, if not out in the open ocean as well.

That's when they compete...and what do we get for the cost of that competition to wild fish?

Nothing, really. Those same progeny of hatchery fish that competed in the river don't come back from the sea as well as the wild fish do...the actual rate of return varies from "zero" in the case of Chambers Creek winter run stock, to somewhat better than that for Skamania summer run stock.

The newest study shows that even using local stocks for hatchery brood stock can, if the unavoidable occurrence of using second generation hatchery fish in the hatchery takes place, produce the same level of competition while producing far less adult recruits.

I don't see a conflict in promoting hatcheries for harvest needs, and seeking to protect wild fish.

First, do not mine the wild populations for hatchery fish...it doesn't work, it decreases the fitness of the wild stock, and it transfers some of that reproductive effort from wild stock production to harvestable fish production...not good for the wild fish.

Second, keep the two runs (hatchery and wild) completely segregated, as the Chambers Creek and native winter runs are...greatly reduces the instances of interbreeding, and doesn't require mining of the wild population to make the hatchery fish.

Third, do not release hatchery fish into streams that do not have viable and effective fish collection facilities...catch as many of the hatchery fish as possible, and then make sure as many of the rest as possible make their way into a fish trap and out of the river.

It's very important to understand the difference between a hatchery program that produces fish for harvest (like what I just outlined), and a hatchery program that is intended to "save" wild fish...the latter uses local broodstock in an effort to "re-create" the wild run, and is the type of program that the most recent study is cautioning against relying on to do so.

Fish on...

Todd

Todd,

Can you email me a copy of that report? I'll send you a pm with my email address.

geljockey

Todd,

Exactly!!!! you are spot on.