If you have forecast for X fish, and you're planning to harvest 20% of that X number at the dam, then why not require the passage of 80% of X *before* harvest begins?

In other words, why not harvest the LAST 20% instead of the first 20%?

Seems obvious, no? Then the upstream guys are guaranteed their fish, and if the estimate is low, the commercial guys don't rape the little run that materializes.

[quote=IrishRogue]If you have forecast for X fish, and you're planning to harvest 20% of that X number at the dam, then why not require the passage of 80% of X *before* harvest begins?

In other words, why not harvest the LAST 20% instead of the first 20%?

Seems obvious, no? Then the upstream guys are guaranteed their fish, and if the estimate is low, the commercial guys don't rape the little run that materializes. [/quote

That's a DARN GOOD IDEA! I am going to push it.

But if the forecast was higher than the return than there wouldn't be any fish harvested.

I might be confused, but where on the rivers (tribs) will the fish wheels be placed......thats the part that concerns me..........I like the idea of allowing the fish to make it home before the nets are turned loose on them.......Smalma your idea has some merit, maybe after a fisherman has fished all day with no fish and wants to take a fish home, picking one up at the hatchery might be nice. If we just got all our fish at the hatchery, a lot of people would go out of business, equip mfgs,guides etc, besides that is the fact that a true sportsman just cant stand a day without standing all day in the snow or at least rain........As someone has already said, these ideas are so simple they would never happen.....

Right. Which is a strong incentive to have CONSERVATIVE estimates, which is GREAT for the fish.

<World's Best Boat Ho>
I couldn't agree more! You're the best Aunty!
</World's Best Boat Ho>

"If you have forecast for X fish, and you're planning to harvest 20% of that X number at the dam, then why not require the passage of 80% of X *before* harvest begins?

In other words, why not harvest the LAST 20% instead of the first 20%?

Seems obvious, no? Then the upstream guys are guaranteed their fish, and if the estimate is low, the commercial guys don't rape the little run that materializes."

Problem is you are targeting the late returning fish, spread the "retention" out over the run. The retention could be based on the previous day or weeks return as a percentage of the previous 10 to 20 year average returns.

If the desired "harvest" is, say 20% then take 20% every day of that day's passage. Taking fish out of the whole run allows the retention of all segments of the run.

Front-loading steelhead fisheries has resulted in the loss of that segment of the runs, and they don't seem to be doing too well without it.

The benefit of traps or fishwheels is that we can safely release the wild fish. But, in some place like the Columbia, each hatchery run would have to differentially marked in order to take the "right" fish.

Unrestricted intensive removal of even the hatchery fish in a mixed stock "fishery" at a trap or fishwheel would give us the same result as we see in the wild stocks; some will get overfished.

What use is a hatchery if we don't allow sufficent escapement to each of them.

It all gets back to fishing where we know what the stock composition and abundance is, in a real-time way.

Aunty

Just because it probably won't fly doesn't mean we shouldn't try. These are times when we need to do the "right" thing and not the politically expedient thing. Whether it be fish, wars, the economy, or whatever.

The future is worth too much not to try and make it the best we can.

Conspiracy theory, if less crisis exist, then less opportunity to make money for lobbyist and such.

What nets?