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#478785 - 01/09/09 04:06 PM Re: Understanding The Gaza Catastrophe [Re: Vic]
Vidiotic Offline
Parr

Registered: 12/09/08
Posts: 69
war crimes.....stockpiling weapons in un schools and daring your enemy to attack them, inflaming world opinion about innocents being killed. Now THAT is a crime of the highest order.

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#478868 - 01/09/09 10:35 PM Re: Understanding The Gaza Catastrophe [Re: ]
Dan S. Offline
It all boils down to this - I'm right, everyone else is wrong, and anyone who disputes this is clearly a dumbfuck.

Registered: 03/07/99
Posts: 16958
Loc: SE Olympia, WA
I got one for $17.99 from Rockets-R-Us the other day.

I'm aiming mine toward Eugene.

smile
_________________________
She was standin' alone over by the juke box, like she'd something to sell.
I said "baby, what's the goin' price?" She told me to go to hell.

Bon Scott - Shot Down in Flames

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#478885 - 01/09/09 11:31 PM Re: Understanding The Gaza Catastrophe [Re: Dan S.]
sykofish Offline
I'm not short, I'm 'fun size'

Registered: 12/25/07
Posts: 1492
Loc: Mulletville
Originally Posted By: Dan S.
I'm aiming mine toward Eugene.:)


Light that SOB Dan.
_________________________


Rusty Bell

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#479057 - 01/10/09 11:10 PM Re: Understanding The Gaza Catastrophe [Re: ]
goharley Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 03/27/02
Posts: 3188
Loc: U.S. Army
Originally Posted By: Hankster
The aid to Hamas would probably be on the same level.
Agreed, that makes sense. That would account for how they purchase their rocket parts. You mentioned earlier China's involvement, which I don't doubt at all and also suspect Russia as well. However, as tightly locked down as Gaza has been I imagine they can only be helping monetarily. I don't think Hamas is sophisticated enough to be smuggling in entire missles.
_________________________
Tent makers for Christie, 2016.

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#479059 - 01/10/09 11:39 PM Re: Understanding The Gaza Catastrophe [Re: Vic]
goharley Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 03/27/02
Posts: 3188
Loc: U.S. Army
Originally Posted By: Vic
Where are the laws that define what Israel is doing is a war crime?
Article 57(2) of Protocol 1 obliges parties to "refrain from deciding to launch any attack which may be expected to cause incidental loss of life, injury to civilians, damage to civilian objects, or a combination thereof which would be excessive in relation to the concrete and direct military advantage anticipated."

Collective punishments are expressly prohibited by Article 75(2)(d) of Protocol I and Article 4(2)(b) of Protocol II. They violate the principle of personal responsibility.







Google shall set you free.
_________________________
Tent makers for Christie, 2016.

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#479078 - 01/11/09 02:19 AM Re: Understanding The Gaza Catastrophe [Re: ]
John Lee Hookum Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 10/12/01
Posts: 2453
Loc: Area 51
Lets here what Israelis are saying.

http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/opinion/395345_amy09.html


Goodman: Israelis for peace speak out
By AMY GOODMAN
SYNDICATED COLUMNIST

Israel's assault on Gaza, by air, sea and now land, has killed (at the time of this writing) more than 600 Palestinians, with more than 2,700 injured. Ten Israelis have been killed, three of them, Israeli soldiers, killed by friendly fire. Beyond the deaths and injuries, the people of Gaza are suffering a dire humanitarian crisis that is dismissed by the Israeli government. There is, however, Israeli opposition to the military assault.

Israeli professor Neve Gordon is chairman of the Department of Politics and Government at Ben-Gurion University of the Negev in southern Israel, the region most impacted by the Hamas rockets.

Speaking over the phone from Beersheba, Gordon said: "We just had a rocket about an hour ago not far from our house. My two children have been sleeping in a bomb shelter for the past week. And yet, I think what Israel is doing is outrageous. ... The problem is that most Israelis say Israel left the Gaza Strip three years ago, and Hamas is still shooting rockets at us. They forget the details. The detail is that Israel maintains sovereignty. The detail is that the Palestinians live in a cage. The detail is that they don't get basic foodstuff, that they don't get electricity, that they don't get water. And when you forget those kinds of details, all you say is, 'Why are they still shooting at us?' That's what the media here has been pumping them with, then you think this war is rational. If you look at what's been going on in the Gaza Strip in the past three years and you see what Israel has been doing to the Palestinians, you would think that the Palestinian resistance is rational. And that's what's missing in the mainstream media here."

Gordon attended a large peace march last weekend in Tel Aviv with more than 10,000 Israelis. Longtime Israeli peace activist Uri Avnery was there. He called the invasion "a criminal war, because, on top of everything else it is openly and shamelessly part of Ehud Barak's and Tzipi Livni's election campaign. I accuse Ehud Barak of exploiting the IDF (Israeli Defense Forces) soldiers in order to get more Knesset seats. I accuse Tzipi Livni of advocating mutual slaughter in order to become prime minister." Israel's elections will be in February.

The assault strengthens right-wing Likud Party leader and former Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, a foremost hawk and leading candidate for prime minister. While Netanyahu fully supports the attack on Gaza, his nephew, Jonathan Ben-Artzi, is an Israeli conscientious objector who was court-martialed and imprisoned for a year and a half. He spoke to me from Providence, R.I., where he is a student at Brown University.

"I'm speaking ... not as anyone's nephew but ... as an Israeli, trying to speak out to Americans to tell them you don't have to support Israel blindly. Not everything that Israel does is holy ... sometimes you have to speak firmly to Israel and tell us, tell our government, stop doing this."

Gideon Levy is a Jewish journalist with the Israeli newspaper Haaretz. He told me: "I think that Israel had this legitimacy to protect its citizens in the southern part of Israel ... but this doing something does not mean this brutal and violent operation. ... I believe we could have got to a new truce without this bloodshed. Immediately to send dozens of jets to bomb a total helpless civilian society with hundreds of bombs -- just today, they were burying five sisters. I mean, this is unheard of. This cannot go on like this."

But it is. The United Nations Relief and Works Agency, UNRWA, in Gaza opened up schools to provide shelter, since Gazans, trapped in this narrow strip of land, have no place to flee. Christopher Gunness of UNRWA told me that they provided the coordinates of the schools to the Israeli military. Nevertheless, at least two schools have been hit by Israeli airstrikes in the past 24 hours. Three people were killed at the Asma Elementary school. More than 30 are reported dead and more than 55 injured at the al-Fakhura school in the Jabaliya refugee camp in Gaza.

While Israeli planes drop pamphlets urging Palestinians to leave, the 1.5 million residents of the Gaza Strip, perhaps the most densely populated place on Earth, have no place to run, no place to hide. Calls for an immediate cease-fire are ignored by Israel and blocked by the U.S. government. It is not clear what the Obama administration will do -- but the people of Gaza can't wait until the inauguration. There must be a cease-fire now. And that's just the beginning.

Amy Goodman is the host of "Democracy Now!," a daily international TV/radio news hour. Denis Moynihan contributed research to this column.

http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/opinion/395345_amy09.html
_________________________

Whoever undertakes to set himself up as a judge of
Truth and Knowledge is shipwrecked by the laughter
of the gods.

-- Albert Einstein



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#479082 - 01/11/09 02:28 AM Re: Understanding The Gaza Catastrophe [Re: John Lee Hookum]
Vidiotic Offline
Parr

Registered: 12/09/08
Posts: 69
another long winded cut and paste by JLH.....Again, who is drinking your kol aid???um lemmesee...NO ONE!

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#479121 - 01/11/09 01:16 PM Re: Understanding The Gaza Catastrophe [Re: Vidiotic]
John Lee Hookum Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 10/12/01
Posts: 2453
Loc: Area 51
_________________________

Whoever undertakes to set himself up as a judge of
Truth and Knowledge is shipwrecked by the laughter
of the gods.

-- Albert Einstein



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#479127 - 01/11/09 01:36 PM Re: Understanding The Gaza Catastrophe [Re: ]
goharley Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 03/27/02
Posts: 3188
Loc: U.S. Army
Originally Posted By: Hankster
The Israelis have been abiding by these rules by informing inhabitants of targeted dwellings by either dropping leaflets or, in some cases, by calling the occupants on the phone.

Doesn't Hamas violate the principle of personal responsibility by launching rockets from or around these areas?
Absolutely Hamas violates that principal IMHO, but since I don't work as a UN prosecutor that opinion and a dollar two ninety-eight will get you a cup of house drip coffee.

Also, IMHO, I don't feel dropping leaflets exonerates Israel from a response excessive in relation to the concrete and direct military advantage anticipated. They're still blowing up houses and infrastructure unnecessarily, which is excessive and appears as collective punishment.

Funny thing about those leaflets, although I do believe Israel's intentions are good, where exactly do they expect the Palistenians to go considering Gaza is one of the most densely populated areas in the world. Is the message something like, "Hey, we're getting ready to bomb the schyt out of grid square A, so you need to move your collective asses to grid square B. Tomorrow you can move back to A 'cause then we're gonna bomb B."
_________________________
Tent makers for Christie, 2016.

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#479209 - 01/11/09 08:59 PM Re: Understanding The Gaza Catastrophe [Re: ]
Vic Offline
Spawner

Registered: 12/05/00
Posts: 553
Loc: Everett, Wa, USA
So Harley... I am curious about the rules of war that Israel has violated. Do you have information to support your claim? Or are you spreading propaganda that is baseless in fact?


Edited by Vic (01/11/09 09:12 PM)

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#479213 - 01/11/09 09:20 PM Re: Understanding The Gaza Catastrophe [Re: goharley]
John Lee Hookum Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 10/12/01
Posts: 2453
Loc: Area 51
Originally Posted By: goharley
Originally Posted By: Vic
Where are the laws that define what Israel is doing is a war crime?
Article 57(2) of Protocol 1 obliges parties to "refrain from deciding to launch any attack which may be expected to cause incidental loss of life, injury to civilians, damage to civilian objects, or a combination thereof which would be excessive in relation to the concrete and direct military advantage anticipated."

Collective punishments are expressly prohibited by Article 75(2)(d) of Protocol I and Article 4(2)(b) of Protocol II. They violate the principle of personal responsibility.







Google shall set you free.
_________________________

Whoever undertakes to set himself up as a judge of
Truth and Knowledge is shipwrecked by the laughter
of the gods.

-- Albert Einstein



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#479214 - 01/11/09 09:26 PM Re: Understanding The Gaza Catastrophe [Re: Vic]
goharley Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 03/27/02
Posts: 3188
Loc: U.S. Army
Vic,

I posted a couple of Articles and Protocols above from the Geneva Conventions as examples.
_________________________
Tent makers for Christie, 2016.

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#479215 - 01/11/09 09:37 PM Re: Understanding The Gaza Catastrophe [Re: goharley]
Vic Offline
Spawner

Registered: 12/05/00
Posts: 553
Loc: Everett, Wa, USA
I will read them. Thanks

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#479309 - 01/12/09 02:32 PM Re: Understanding The Gaza Catastrophe [Re: Vic]
John Lee Hookum Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 10/12/01
Posts: 2453
Loc: Area 51

Israel accused of using white phosphorus in Gaza

http://uk.reuters.com/article/featuredCrisis/idUKLA617723
_________________________

Whoever undertakes to set himself up as a judge of
Truth and Knowledge is shipwrecked by the laughter
of the gods.

-- Albert Einstein



Top
#479319 - 01/12/09 03:29 PM Re: Understanding The Gaza Catastrophe [Re: ]
John Lee Hookum Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 10/12/01
Posts: 2453
Loc: Area 51
Originally Posted By: Hankster

They use it for illumination and the smoke is for concealment. Not as an offensive weapon.

I popped a few WP rounds myself.


So what! You probably think of it as candy for the kids of Gaza. Probably wouldn't mind having your name etched on a few Israeli rounds. sick

Oh and ya, add to that a little DU for the complete cocktail. And by the way it's payed for with our money. Nice...beathead


Edited by John Lee Hookum (01/12/09 03:34 PM)
_________________________

Whoever undertakes to set himself up as a judge of
Truth and Knowledge is shipwrecked by the laughter
of the gods.

-- Albert Einstein



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#479353 - 01/12/09 06:23 PM Re: Understanding The Gaza Catastrophe [Re: ]
Vidiotic Offline
Parr

Registered: 12/09/08
Posts: 69
Is there no end to JLH's crying? cryriver so the Isreali's use WP, Hamas uses human shields..hmmmm ask yourself which is m ore cowardly. lame


Edited by Vidiotic (01/12/09 06:26 PM)

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#479354 - 01/12/09 06:30 PM Re: Understanding The Gaza Catastrophe [Re: Vidiotic]
Vidiotic Offline
Parr

Registered: 12/09/08
Posts: 69
Now Hamas is raiding aid trucks, sent by the Isreali's, and selling supplies to highest bidder. JLH, you picked the wrong horse in this race. Uh oh!
I did it, I played the race card!!!!!!

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#479380 - 01/12/09 09:05 PM Re: Understanding The Gaza Catastrophe [Re: Vidiotic]
goharley Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 03/27/02
Posts: 3188
Loc: U.S. Army
Originally Posted By: Vidiotic
so the Isreali's use WP, Hamas uses human shields..hmmmm ask yourself which is m ore cowardly.
One stands behind a cannon 10 miles from the battle area while the other stands in the middle of the target prepared to die for his belief.

Hmmm, which one is more courageous? You don't honestly believe their "use of human shields" is preventing them from dieing, do you?
_________________________
Tent makers for Christie, 2016.

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#479389 - 01/12/09 10:06 PM Re: Understanding The Gaza Catastrophe [Re: ]
goharley Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 03/27/02
Posts: 3188
Loc: U.S. Army
I agree it's strange; so foreign to our way of thinking it's tough to comprehend. I don't believe they are cowards, however. I also believe the hate you mentioned often goes both ways

Interesting argument though; is it simply blind hate, or is it courage manifested by blind hate, or perhaps manifested by a perverse theocracy. Just a matter of semantics, I suppose. Either way there are no winners in these conflicts.
_________________________
Tent makers for Christie, 2016.

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#479391 - 01/12/09 10:28 PM Re: Understanding The Gaza Catastrophe [Re: goharley]
Vidiotic Offline
Parr

Registered: 12/09/08
Posts: 69
Nope not courage, blind subservience to thier chosen religion, and the belief in an afterlife occupied by 72 virgins. Gee I dunno, I tend to side with the SMART ones, you know, 10 miles away behind a cannon.

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