"Government control or Took a court order to get more spill." Uhm... wouldn't that be government in action?

There are folks who make a helluva lot of money off not spilling. Somehow, they didn't win on the Columbia Basin. The last ten years in the Columbia basin have seen fantastic, wonderful, good, positive returns which are somewhat a result of government in action.

And give me a break - do you really beieve salmonids thrive on "good ocean conditions" despite every governmental agency working toward their demise?

If you really you believe that WA state and federal government are actively opposing salminid survival, you are an idiot.

And again, "Government control or good ocean conditions? Took a court order to get more spill."

That would be government control.

Please point out to me the last court order that did not involve government contol.

Put me in the row with the idiots then.

Sad,but most likely true.Good luck,
STRIKE ZONE

Son you need to go home to your mother and learn some damn manners. Calling someone and idiot does nothing but prove that is just what you are.

Talk about the good old days, I grew up on the banks of the Cowlitz and had one of the better slamon holes right out behind the barn. The harvest trout fishing was unreal, all up thru the feeder steams and of the Cispus river. Labour day weekend I would watch for the salmon to arrive, always with in a couple of days ether way. I would set out behind the barn on the rip rap and watch the large riffles below and whem they arrived it was somthing to see, first there would be a few fish begining to roll at the top of the riffles then more and more untill the whole river from the shallow riffles behind the barn to the next riffles would be full of jumping bright salmon. My fishing tackle was not much back then, I sure would like to go back to those days with the fishing gear I have now and float a big gobb of eggs under a float along the rip rap bank. My dad and uncle said there used to be a run of calico salmon that came up at least as far as Toledo, these where probability chum, there was always a nickname for something back then. Olegua, Salmon, and Lacamas creek all had salmon and steelhead in them. I didn't need to go anywhere else to fish it was in my back yard. When I think of those days I really did not know truely blessed I was to have all that so close. The farm work was hard but good healty work, 5:00am to 9:00pm every day something the kids now days would know nothing about. Well I could rattle on and on but I know those days are probalitly gone forever. With no desire to change the commerical harvest method of gill netting and two different set of rules for commerical and sport fishing I doudt if there will ever be anything like it was when I was a kid.

I figure I have seen the peak in my home rivers, and sadly have started to move towards other hobbies/activities with my free time.

I will never give up fishing for salmon on the Chehalis in the fall, or winter runs on the Satsop and Wynoochee (these are all within a few minutes of home). But I don't go out with big expectations much anymore. Sometimes it is just a boat ride or a walk, other times it is like "the old days" and most times it is in between.

Rocket Red............I feel the same. I've moved on to other activities and hobbies also, more productive ones. Although I still fish at the better times of the year but now I expect a boat ride or maybe hooking a fish or two if lucky. My drive to fish is from all those past trips that use to be the "sure thing" with multiple hookups and double digit days. I'm pretty sure those are gone for good when it comes to Steelhead fishing in Washington State, at least where I live.

What was once an incredible sport, hobby and love is now just something to pass the time away from time to time.

Yeah, I guess it is starting to seem like the return for effort on the average fishing trip around here is pretty low. So I don't make the effort I used to. I used to think that the better and better I got at fishing (personal progression in the sport), that I would catch more and more fish. But, because of factors that are for the most part out of our hands, my ability to actually catch fish has declined.

Even though I know exactly where/when to be on my home waters for the greatest return, I still do not have the kind of success I used to. I know there are still chances for double digit days out there, and I will probably have another one sometime, but I don't get the vibe nearly as much as I did before.

So in turn I am changing my core hobbies, but I will always fish and hunt.

those were the days, do you remember ron forsel on channel 7 with the daily coastal salmon catch ?

I sure do.............also remember the summers, 73 -77, at Westport.....cars parked everywhere.....something like 275 Charter boat. Would drive out there in the afternoon........seemed like everyone had their limits.......Coho and Chinook!!!!!! Some of the boats would do double or triple runs.....

Not many even fished "bottom fish"......and there was no sport tuna fishing, at that time........

One govt. agency resisting (BPA) another forcing the issue(courts).

Kind of an Oxymoron, don't you think?

okiedude, finally someone understands what i was gettin at!!

i'm glad rivers are closing for fishing, hell close em all for 10-20 years and see what it does!!

then it will be the good NEW days

i remember that, charters had to wait there turn to get out of the harbor like a traffic jam at south center, people every where, no parking

...yeah, that worked really damned good for the nisqually!

the way things are going, it seems like the steelhead are on their way out in many places. there's quite a few untouched rivers and creeks on the coast and i'd bet money that they get nowhere near the fish they once did, despite the fact that they are fished little or not at all, have no development or farms on them, and no hatcheries.

as easy as it is to feel guity for sport harvest, it's just yet another small piece of a bigger puzzle.

I`ll be the optomist here. The good old days are coming. We`ve come so far with technology in our hatchery system. Now we need to let the experts raise fish! And lots of them please. While I`m all for native fish recovery I believe that certain rivers should have an ABUNDANCE of keepable fish. Help to keep people out of the native only rivers. We should involve the tribes and the commercials in this endeavor, who better to raise fish than those with a stake in the game? Maybe some hatcheries could go to privately funded?, who knows what this would accomplish but I`m betting the free market would make the vote and fish those rivers that had a good return of keepers. i`ve seen those old days and yes they were good but I believe we can top them if we have the will and ?. Bill

I dont mean to burst your bubble billjr but the so called free market that you so highly speak of is what has gotten us to this point, as long as fish are a comodity man will exploit them... sadly it is the nature of the beast...

the one and only expert that has any hope of getting us out of this mess is not modern hatchery technology... it is mother nature...

Speaking of bubble bursting Piper. Mother nature can not and will not solve anything unless first we stop harvest abuse, second and most important limit growth of the human population which is NOT going to happen. The concept that you can run out and sprinkle a little $$$$$$$$$$$$$ around to fix ole mother nature and fish are all better is just as blind and devoid of thought as was the thought that hatcheries will cure everything.

As in everything the truth in all likelihood will be in the middle, a mix, hatchery for people and natural spawners for the fish themselves.

Help me! I am choking on the granola and honey.

FD

I don't believe I ever said it was going to happen...

About the only way it will ever happen is if something catastrophic wipes out most of mankind...