IN the past year or two I have had a hankering to go upland bird hunting, so much so that I bought a shorthair. I trap pigeons, and she holds a point, does all the things a hunting dog is supposed to do, however I have limited resources (poor college kid) and I live on the peninsula so, aside from the occasional quail and the madhouse of Voice of America, I was wondering it there was any place around that could satisfy my upland needs? I am not opposed to a road trip across the state, so long as there were birds and I could make it a relatively cheap trip. If there is someone on the other side of the mountains who happens upon this, I have a drift boat and an open seat assuming we could figure out a fair swap. I appreciate any input in regards to dogs, birds, and the great out of doors in general.

my insight regarding GSPs.... dont own them... but seriously, dont.






There are a lot of good upland opportunities on the eastern side of the state. I regularly hunt the eastside for both upland and waterfowl. I think the best upland hunting in the state is the quail hunting. Lots of birds and lots of areas where they thrive. Much of the terrain i find them in is not conducive to a pointing dog but there are plenty of areas that are...
regarding your dog, i would try to meet up with some other pointing dog owners on this side of the state and see if you could get some tips for training her. "all the things a hunting dog is supposed to do" sends shivers down my spine. I have hunted with a lot of pointers that were descibed as all world when i was guiding and have seen them blow a lot of opportunities. It is a fine thing to hunt over a well trained pointer but a pain in the ass to watch one that cant retrieve, wont come when its called, isnt steady to shot, or we lose after watching it chase a hen pheasant that has taken flight into the next county. great memories and oh so good times...
I'd be happy to get you out and into some areas that you could try hunting next year. Send me a pm and we talk some specifics.
David
d3

Upland bird hunting????????

Never heard of it!


Lots of it all over the state and in neighboring states too. Best training for the pup is to hunt them and hunt them often. Try a few of the pheasant release sites on your side. Or maybe you can get your pup to work some grouse. Thats a few opportunities you have that are close. I'm a little concerned about the "Hankerin" though. If its a one or two time deal I might suggest to hire a guide or go to the release farms/club in E-burg.

sorry guys, I was vague. My shorthair is an awesome pet, but she hasn't been hunted. I have done all of the training myself, so I have realistic expectations for what she is going to do. I've done a lot of research, and I actually started a business so I could trap pigeons around home to train her. I realize that all the trainign in the world cannot completely prepare her for real, true to life birds. I am prepared to not shoot over her, ever, until she is steady through the shot. I guess what I am getting at is the next step for me and my dog is to try real birds. I do not expect her to be perfect, as I am no professional trainer. The whole reason I got her was to get the whole upland experience. I appreciate the incite, and hope that I didn't come off too optimistic. I'm taking it one step at a time, and the next step is wild birds.

i think you next step should be on released birds like j7 suggested in e-burg.

You dont have to shoot over her right now, but make sure your taking the steps so she wont be gun shy. I have owned few different shorthairs and getting ready for my first Vizsla. You really only need a few minutes a day to get an awesome dog. Getting her aware of the surroundings and picking up scents and holding is what is important right now but control over your dog is the most important of all.

lots of grouse out here. once you abandon the mindset that the only way to hunt them is from the truck, or sluicing them with a rifle off logging roads, they're a kick in the ass to hunt and as challenging as anything to wingshoot.

so much, that i plan on getting a puppy this spring, preferably a springer. need something to find the ones that always seem to take off just as i walk past them.

You will be surprised by how little training a good bird dog needs to be a good hunter. Both my labs instinctively took to birds with out much prior training besides the "Come, sit, and stay commands"

Pretty darn close. I’m on my second Britt. The first was trained professionally and the current one was not. Not much difference between the two as far as I can tell in the field.

Sage is a retrieving fool until it has feathers. Ducks and quail no problems. Grouse she sort of points them out?? Pheasant she would probably retrieve once she’s done plucking the thing but I’ve never waited that long.

She usually comes when called unless, god forbid, she flushes a rabbit or [gasp] a mink then forget it. Also doesn’t like to come when she’s cold and wet and I need her to get back in the boat. But that’s what Puperroni’s are for!

She is not steady to shot. Oh occasionally she’s so surprised I actually hit the thing that she’s stunned to steady but usually a hit bird almost hits her in the head.

Rarely does she chase a hen to the next county. Usually the hens hold to point long enough for the cock to run to the next county. It might be the most frustrating thing of all watching as a cock pheasant takes off running while she’s holding a perfect point at the wrong bush.

On the other hand none of that bothers me and it sure as hell doesn’t bother my pup. I hike while she hunts and occasionally we shoot something.

The one thing about pointers is that they take a couple of seasons to learn the ropes. A good pointer can only learn to be a good pointer by lots of time in the field which unfortunately I don’t have. Like coug says some simple commands and a flusher is pretty much good to go. Not so with a pointer.

Once I realized neither me nor my dog was going to win field trials and I just started to enjoy our trips afield my hunts became a whole lot more fun for both of us!

sds,
A few thoughts on training, assuming you have a birdy pup that's still young.

For pointers "whoa" is the center of the wagon wheel when training. The "whoa" command is to only be used on live birds. This is best done with two people. Since you have pigeons a remote controlled trap is best. A typical training session goes like this-

Strategically place a couple of traps hidden in a bush where one won’t be in the way of the other. Get some pheasant scent (or scent of whatever you plan on hunting) and apply to 5 or 6 pieces of cotton cloth and place down wind of the traps.

Go home and grab the pup. You don't want her to know it's a training session.

Try and choose good scent conditions ie. cool, dry with some moisture/dew on the grass and a mild, steady wind.

With your helper manning the lead head out as if on an actual hunt. Carry a .22 to start (if your pup hasn't been around gunfire yet). Walk the field and at first look for actual birds, robins and such. If she points a bird re-enforce it with "whoa" and a palm up hand signal. Have the helper take out most of the slack of the lead as you flush the bird. The pup will bolt and the helper needs one HARD yank to stop the pup. You pop off a round as the birds flushes (don't worry about gunshy'ness as if you time it right the pup wont even hear the gunshot and the pup should be 10' or so behind you). Pick the pup up (don't walk) and set her back down at the exact place you gave the "whoa" command. Give another "whoa" (with the hand signal always) and go back where the bird flushed and sort of kick around like you are looking for another bird.

If your pup is holding point walk back and pat her on the head and give a release command (usually her name but I use "alright").

Being a GS she will probably lose her mind and if so you have a lot of work ahead. This is actually good news in that you can't teach birdiness.

This is "sight" pointing. Repeat often all day every day during walks and such. Being single and in a Condo this is as far as I made it and is the biggest reason Sage is not steady to shot! Do not ever let your pup see a bird and not give the "whoa" command!!!

Now slowly work your way downwind of the cotton pieces and the trap. Watch your pup very closely! Timing here is critical!!! She'll get a quizzical look on her face as she gets puff of scent. At the exact same time-"whoa", release the trap, bang, yank!

This is a scent point. You'll know your close when she hits that puff of scent and stops/points immediately no matter how messed up her balance is or how awkward her posture is. I've seen Sage almost tip over on a wayward gust of wind. You see this on the hunting shows occasionally (most shows edit this out, give an "easy" command allowing the dog to obtain a classic point for the camera's as the hunter gets in position).

When she's at that point make her hold the point "whoa" as you kick around near the trap and then release, bang, yank.

As she progresses switch it up some. One time simulate a "wild" immediate release of the pigeon and another kick around for five minutes occasionally giving her the "are sure look" before tripping the release.

You must be extremely consistent during this process. Never ever let her break point without picking her up and placing her back on the exact spot-"whoa" hold and then release "alright." Preferably with a good hard yank knocking her ass over teakettle at the break! This is true during all training sessions but even more important during actual hunting trips after successfully shooting a bird. Remember what can take all year to train can be undone during two minutes of actual hunting experience!!! You must not make the mistake of having a pup that holds a point thru the flush and gunshot during training but not during actual hunting trips. Believe me the pup will learn the difference between the two. This is what D3 probably experienced. A professionally trained pointer that was world class at the trainers but no where close in the field! Be extremely careful around other dogs and hunters. If you plan on hunting release sites just teach your pup her name as the rest is a waste of time. She'll learn more bad habits around other dogs in two minutes then you could train in 10 years!!! The same is true of good habits though. Seriously think about a guided trip with professionally trained pointers as a training session and not a hunt. The guide will understand and be a real big help in this process.

Expect this process to take up to three or four years. A labs prime time is around 2-8 or 10 years depending on size. A GSP's prime time is about 4-10 or 12 years.

This process is what I witnessed/learned while having my first pup professionally trained. Having been trained with a shock collar the process was a wee bit different but not much!

A note about shock collars. Do not even think about using one without the guidance of a professional trainer. As stated at the top and inferred throughout timing is critical. A shock to re-enforce "whoa" can very easily be mistaken by the pup as a shock to re-enforce "bad dog you found another bird." The biggest difference between the two methods, lead v. collar, is that the pup is forced trained, usually within the first 6-9 months, "whoa" long before ever being introduced to live birds. Use the utmost of extreme caution if thinking about a collar!!!

Now your ready for retrieve training-Yikes! Brittanies are well known as the best retriever of the pointing class, the only pointer that does not always require "force" training. And you've seen the issue's I have above and Sage is a retrieving fool in and out of the water. Not so with a GSP but I aint touching that today as this is easily the longest post I’ve ever made on PP.

What do you expect. An Island full of rabbits or a 16' boat and whitecaps

Next time I'll try and remember the Puperonni's