#601884 - 05/25/10 09:44 PM
What's wrong with this picture....
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Ornamental Rice Bowl
Registered: 11/24/03
Posts: 12767
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and why do we continue to tolerate it? **** I got on the Pacific Salmon Commission's website (the body which oversees the treaty with Canada) and this is the latest exploitation data available. http://www.psc.org/pubs/TCCHINOOK09-3.pdfScroll down to page 121 in the actual document (page 129 in the Adobe Reader) The index stock in the PSC database for coastal WA is the Queets River, about an hour from my house. Exploitation is currently (1999-2007 dataset) running about 60% of adult production. Of the total fish harvested, nearly half are taken in SE-AK (46.3%), 99% of which are troll caught. Between AK and the Canadians, they take more than 7 out of every 10 fish harvested. Now let's talk ESA. Puget Sound chinook are ESA-listed and comprise a diversity of small local stocks susceptible to outside exploitation. How much of the catch is taken by the outside AK/BC fisheries? http://wdfw.wa.gov/fish/papers/ps_chinoo...an_11-25-09.pdf Hoko: 96% Elwha: 75% Skagit: 77% Stillaguamish: 68% Nooksack: 90% Bottom line.... 100% of the burden for chinook production, conservation, and recovery falls squarely on local shoulders.... only to have the lion's share of the benefits squandered in distant outside fisheries. HOUSTON, WE HAVE A PROBLEM!
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"Let every angler who loves to fish think what it would mean to him to find the fish were gone." (Zane Grey) "If you don't kill them, they will spawn." (Carcassman) The Keen Eye MDLong Live the Kings!
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#601885 - 05/25/10 09:59 PM
Re: What's wrong with this picture....
[Re: eyeFISH]
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Village Idiot
Registered: 12/06/09
Posts: 614
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untill the cowardly politicians stand up and put a stop to this, we will all take it in the shorts.
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Say no to drugs
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#601886 - 05/25/10 10:00 PM
Re: What's wrong with this picture....
[Re: eyeFISH]
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BUCK NASTY!!
Registered: 01/26/00
Posts: 6424
Loc: Vancouver, WA
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Wowsers....................................... Keith
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It's time to put the red rubber nose away, clown seasons over.
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#601894 - 05/25/10 10:28 PM
Re: What's wrong with this picture....
[Re: ]
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River Nutrients
Registered: 03/08/99
Posts: 3513
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Alaskans: "You can't tell us how to fish. It's our waters and we'll set our seasons as we see fit!" OR "Prove it!" OR "But curtailing our fisheries will send our fishing-dependent communities into an economic tailspin.....we need to fish" I've heard all 3 of these arguments made in the past. B.S. or not, they must carry some weight because the commission(s) still allow this crap to happen. Pathetic.
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#601896 - 05/25/10 10:33 PM
Re: What's wrong with this picture....
[Re: ]
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Juvenile at Sea
Registered: 05/22/03
Posts: 147
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Welcome to one of the real problems Doc. Keep educating yourself. You'll understand someday.
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yelloweye
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#601899 - 05/25/10 10:42 PM
Re: What's wrong with this picture....
[Re: yelloweye]
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clown flocker
Registered: 10/19/09
Posts: 3743
Loc: Water
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Time and Place is always the first step in Selective fishing, gear type is last.
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There's a sucker born every minute
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#601902 - 05/25/10 10:51 PM
Re: What's wrong with this picture....
[Re: yelloweye]
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Ornamental Rice Bowl
Registered: 11/24/03
Posts: 12767
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Welcome to one of the real problems Doc. Keep educating yourself. You'll understand someday. Your genuinely enouraging remarks are always welcome, y'eye. Just doing my part to help educate the masses on a well-known issue. The problem is just so much more tangible for everyone when the officially documented numbers are brought to light.
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"Let every angler who loves to fish think what it would mean to him to find the fish were gone." (Zane Grey) "If you don't kill them, they will spawn." (Carcassman) The Keen Eye MDLong Live the Kings!
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#601911 - 05/25/10 11:25 PM
Re: What's wrong with this picture....
[Re: eyeFISH]
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The Beav
Registered: 02/22/09
Posts: 2833
Loc: Oregon Central Coast
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Fawk!
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[Bleeeeep!], the cup of ignorance in this thread overfloweth . . . Salmo g Truth be told, I've always been a fan of the Beavs. -Dan S.
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#601912 - 05/25/10 11:43 PM
Re: What's wrong with this picture....
[Re: Twitch]
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Reverend Tarpones
Registered: 10/09/02
Posts: 8587
Loc: West Duvall
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That's simply aweful!
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No huevos no pollo.
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#601913 - 05/25/10 11:49 PM
Re: What's wrong with this picture....
[Re: eyeFISH]
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Repeat Spawner
Registered: 01/01/06
Posts: 1340
Loc: Poulsbo
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and why do we continue to tolerate it?
I want to fish, so I tolerate it. What I want to know is HOW they know where these fish are heading? I assume they are going off wire tags from hatchery fish retained in those areas.
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#601920 - 05/26/10 12:29 AM
Re: What's wrong with this picture....
[Re: Jason Y]
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clown flocker
Registered: 10/19/09
Posts: 3743
Loc: Water
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Actually I think this treaty was renegotiated with the 30 million WCVI troller buyout..Not sure if it all went through but there predicting alot more kings off the Washington Coast and Columbia this fall.
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There's a sucker born every minute
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#601922 - 05/26/10 12:47 AM
Re: What's wrong with this picture....
[Re: SBD]
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Ornamental Rice Bowl
Registered: 11/24/03
Posts: 12767
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Our latest pay-off to the Canadians was supposed to buy about a million extra kings over the next 10 years.... about 100,000 per year.
When spread over the many drainages contibuting to chinook production up and down the west coast, the impact to any one drainage is pretty small.
It would be nice to allocate those kings to the gravel rather than just exploit them as a simple transfer of harvest from northern fisheries to southern US fisheries. I believe that was the original intent, but the PFMC might eventually have other ideas.
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"Let every angler who loves to fish think what it would mean to him to find the fish were gone." (Zane Grey) "If you don't kill them, they will spawn." (Carcassman) The Keen Eye MDLong Live the Kings!
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#601924 - 05/26/10 12:49 AM
Re: What's wrong with this picture....
[Re: eyeFISH]
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clown flocker
Registered: 10/19/09
Posts: 3743
Loc: Water
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Baby Steps I guess, now back to that new dam..
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There's a sucker born every minute
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#601925 - 05/26/10 12:50 AM
Re: What's wrong with this picture....
[Re: eyeFISH]
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Smolt
Registered: 04/29/03
Posts: 86
Loc: Mount Vernon, WA
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Thanks for noticing one of the real problems. And, the savings from the new chinook annex are real, and discernable, although not enough. And yes, we are passing most of those savings through to escapement.
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Two Dogs
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#601932 - 05/26/10 01:26 AM
Re: What's wrong with this picture....
[Re: Irie]
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Repeat Spawner
Registered: 03/05/00
Posts: 1092
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The lower 48 states salmon were traded to the Canadians in exchange for taking the Canadian heat off the S.E. AK netters for pounding the hell out of salmon bound for northern B.C. rivers. Backroom deal it was.
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#601943 - 05/26/10 08:46 AM
Re: What's wrong with this picture....
[Re: ]
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Returning Adult
Registered: 02/06/03
Posts: 463
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Canadian trollers just finished catching 24,000 kings off WCVI north. I would bet the vast majority of those fish were american bound fish.
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#601946 - 05/26/10 10:10 AM
Re: What's wrong with this picture....
[Re: Hoghunter]
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River Nutrients
Registered: 12/15/02
Posts: 4022
Loc: Ahhhhh, damn dog!
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Doc, don't let some dumb azzes dissuade you from doing what you do as there are lots of people out here that look forward to your comments, suggestions and fact finding.
Fishy
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NRA Life member
The idea of a middle class life is slowly drifting away as each and every day we realize that our nation is becoming more of a corporatacracy.
I think name-calling is the right way to handle this one/Dan S
We're here from the WDFW and we're here to help--Uhh Ohh!
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#601972 - 05/26/10 11:59 AM
Re: What's wrong with this picture....
[Re: Hoghunter]
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Three Time Spawner
Registered: 03/13/00
Posts: 1865
Loc: Kelso Wa.
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In the 20 years I've fished S.E. Ak. I've seen quota's go from somewhere around 450,000 kings in the early 90's to 222,000 this year, I didn't check but I'm guessing it was even lower in 2008 when the AI was really low, around 1.09. The sportfish limits have also gone from 2 a day every day for everyone down to 1 a day 3 for the year for non residents. Two years ago during the low abundance year they completely closed king retention in the middle of the season. As for the commercial troll fleet, and I'm just speaking on what I've witnessed off POW Is. not all of S.E. (outside POW seems to be a popular place for people to point fingers) the actual king fishery can usually be counted in single digit days, starting July 1st and most years, closed within a week. If you think its a free for all and everyone is out to rape and pillage the resourse your sadly mistaken. Imo, ADF&G has alot better handle on whats going on in their state then WDFW will ever have.
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