I am a long time gear fishermen when it comes to salmon and steelhead but have been fly fishing trout since I was a kid. I do a lot of fishing on the OP and really want to get into some wild steel with a fly rod. I have a 8 wt Lamiglas rod with okuma reel but that is the toughest rod I own. Is that enough? Being raised on dry flies I have picked up dead drifting with a nymph and strike indicator for trout and would prefer to start out using that method. Any advice on flys would be great. Thanks

An 8 weight will get ya by, although I certainly prefer a 9 this time of year.

If you're going to nymph, you can go as simple as beads or typically any egg pattern is going to produce.

Remember that 90% of the game is getting whatever you're using in front of the fish and worry less about the specific pattern.

8 wt is good. Other than two-handed rods, an 8 wt single hand fly rod has been my go to steelhead rod for over 30 years, before that a 9 wt fiberglass for a few years, and before that a 7 wt fiberglass - that really was a bit on the light side. From what I read here, when it comes to nymphing on the OP and BC, beads are the real deal. In OR north coast rivers, they seem to like bead head egg patterns, and really clean house with those.

And what Bob said. If you present it right, they will eat it.

Sg

Hopefully I would never been drawn over to the Dark Side, but I have seen many, many fish hooked using floating lines and traditional steelhead patterns during the summer run.
The difference being is that the fish are so much more aggressive....you don't have to get in their face. They come up to attack your offering.
I admit, "the wash" is something to behold.

If I was ever to be kidnapped and spirited off to the Dark Side, it would happen during the summer run.

So, I suppose my point is, if you start now, it just gets better.

Mmmm, I thought I was turned to the dark side when I picked up a gear rod....

I've used egg pattern under a float using conventional rods. I haven't had much success on a fly rod yet, but, I haven't spent much time using a fly rod fishing for steel head either.

As compared to trout, they're junkyard dogs. They don't care about nuances like "matching the hatch".
You are poking a stick through a chainlink fence at a badass mofo.
You just need to know where he likes to hang and then start poking around with that stick.
Better hang, though

IMO the key is to have your fly bouncing boulders in the winter...no good to do the classic down n across swing with light flies. Use heavy flies, cast across, stack mend and move down after cast...the quicker you get down and the longer you stay within a few feet of bottom the better success you will have. Oh ya, get a good hook file and check for sharpness constantly...

If you throw bobbers you are drift fishing...:)

Foul !
The floating portion of the line is the bobber (float)

Yep, in winter you need to get downstairs.

DD,

Dark side? Oh yeah, that's what we call jig and bobber (nymphing) fishing with a fly rod. But gear? That's not the dark side; that's just totally slumming with the riff raff. The path to Holiness is paved with fishing the swing, wet or dry. True 'dat.

Sg

Hire a guide.

Or you could do what I did, and get the name of a respected fly fisherman from the local fly shop. Call him and invite yourself on one of his fishing trips.

Then after he wont take you again.

Watch for the guy or guy's who (consistently) put fish on the bank, and befriend them.

It won't be easy. But worth it.

Then listen and pay attention to what they say! And eventually you'll start getting the hang of it. Before long the occasional fish, will turn into expected fish.

Just remember, the fly's only about 25%, and presentation's 75%.

Good luck.

Mf

I know that the swing is the thing.....I just happen to like brass flies
I also like to use a knuckle-buster reel that would make the average feather flicker p!ss in his waders with it hooked up to Mr Big ....
true friggin dat





DD
(I almost wet myself on the first one )

Pretty sure that hasn't happened yet, but it might.
I think, Nymphs will never make a Willie wilt.
Evidence: http://www.google.com/images?hl=en&r...280&bih=625

Some folks think it is not flyfishing without all natural materials in the fly and a cane rod but we all find our comfort level with modernity. Look at the Spring Issue 2009 STS with an article by our own Twitch on using fly offerings with casting equipment. Just re read it tonight while looking for something "new" to read. It could just as well be the current issue.

This is not always true.
Blonde nymphing will in fact make the penis grow larger.

DD
Who still thinks about that blonde nymph from time to time

What's with the anti-nymphing stuff.....If you lived in the high rockies, and never nymphed, you'd be 1/2 a flyfisherman....I wouldn't even consider fishing in the winter up high, without a beadhead dropper. I've been out numerous times when you didn't see a fish rise all day(Winter,in a stream that had 6-8000 fish per mile.....only someone with a small penis wouldn't nymph then....Haaaaaa....And outfishing my gear buddy nymphing a #2 Bitch Creek on the Deschutes made my rod even bigger.....Ha....Tom

Speyguy,

I don't know for sure, but I'll give you my spin on the "why nymphing for steelhead ain't cool." Traditional fly fishing for steelhead used and still uses the wet fly swing. Even fishing dry flies, or skaters, uses the floating equivalent of the wet fly swing. In WA state, which isn't the Rockies, on fly fishing only waters, the regulations prohibited the use of weighted flies or split shot or any added weight to one's leader or fly line. (Regulations have since been modified to allow nymph fishing.) Absent any added weight, nymph fishing for steelhead simply was not practiced. Further, local fishing ettiquite used a rotation method - as in Atlantic salmon fishing - of casting and stepping downstream through the pool so that every angler gets a chance to fish the entire pool. Lead shot and upstream casting for nymphing was illegal and incompatible with the accepted fishing style.

I don't know when the regulations changed, but my guess is that WA anglers learned to nymph fish for trout from Rocky Mountain fishermen, and brought the technique home, or RM fishermen migrated to WA, take your choice, and got the technique made legal, but it's still kinda' out there on the edge of regional fly fishing morality. From what I see, nymphing seems to be Kosher for trout and not so much for steelhead. Maybe that's because 90% of a trout's diet is sub-surface. And since steelhead in freshwater are typically not feeding, we needn't bother trying to feed them nymphs.(?). Personally I don't care, and having never caught a steelhead by nymphing I fully intend to do so one day, something I've been saying for about 10 years. Since I was schooled in tradition, that's what seems most comfortable to me, and it works in most situations. But I've long thought that nymphing would allow me to fish certain types of holding water that doesn't swing.

Sg

Watched this guy one Oct. morning put three fish on the bank nymphing (3fer5). Turned out this guy had never fished Steelhead before, this was his first trip, he was from Mont.

Pretty lethal method when fishing over hatchery's that won't come up and take a wet fly.

Mf

No sense in worrying about things that you don't control

8^) When I left driftfishing in about 1980 to go to school, and then came back in about 1995, I found that the boundaries had blurred so much I did not recognize them, and they have blurred even more.

Here were hardware flingers using fly gear , and fly guys using fluorescent stuff called "articulated egg sucking leaches," or some such terms.

Oh really? Anybody seen any egg sucking leaches lately? And don't they look a lot like yarn? Pretty sure there is no hatch to match anywhere close to there. But, it is not important. IMO, if we can learn about these metal heeded wonders and how to be better fishers. So I tie up egg sucking leaches and am sorting out nymphs.

So, 2 questions: 1) How big do nymphs for steelies need to be?
and 2) Sg, is it true?
Congratulations if so.

PS: Great book: "BugWater" by Arlen Thomason More than we can absorb in 10 years about bugs.

Sg's history is good to know and I get ragged on for relating history. History is prologue.
So, I ask, how do we get better at fishing Nymphs for Steelies?
does this make me cheap? 8^)

Addendum: found this looking around but haven't read it, but some here will also find it interesting to read.

http://www.gormanflyfishing.com/stlhd_book_excerpts.htm

S. salar,

I would care only if I believed there were a correlation. And at my age and as much as I would nymph, the loss would barely be noticeable.

Magicfly & Chuck S.,

Fly fishing is not the method of choice for people who NEED to catch a steelhead. If I needed to catch a steelhead, I would use a gillnet or blasting caps for their superior effectiveness. But I fish steelhead for sport, and fly fishing - not nymphing - yields the highest sport. Nymphing and bait fishing are crutches, better suited to anglers more in need of catching than rather than maximizing sport.

DR,

1. as small as a 6 mm bead to as large as a 6" MOAL;
2. yes, thank you.
3. ". . . So, I ask, how do we get better at fishing Nymphs for Steelies?
does this make me cheap? 8^)" No, it doesn't make you cheap. It makes you "nymph curious" (what I am) or more in need of catching a steelhead than in maximizing the sport in pursuing one. Calling steelhead "steelies" kinda' makes you cheap, IMHO tho, more derogatory than a term of endearment.
4. about that book: Blashphemy! Clearly more focused on the result than the pursuit, might as well employ a spinning rod and reel.

I reiterate, anyone who "needs" to catch a steelhead ought not fly fish for them. It simply doesn't make sense. Fly fishing for steelhead is simply about obtaining the maximum sport for the effort expended, and while catching steelhead is a priority, it's not as high a priority as catching one under one's own terms of limited effectiveness.

Sg

[quote=
>1. as small as a 6 mm bead to as large as a 6" MOAL;

Works for me. This range gives us a range to play. I am going to tie up some bugs from 6 to 1/0 and see if I can figure out how to post them. Copper Johns through Prince Nymph's and Mega Princes, and the usual suspects but on big hooks .

Should be fun!!

>2. yes, thank you.

Way cool, way cool . Doing a happy dance for Dad, and Mom as well. Warmest Regards.

>3. ". . . So, I ask, how do we get better at fishing Nymphs for Steelies?
does this make me cheap? 8^)"

>No, it doesn't make you cheap. It makes you "nymph curious" (what I am) or more in need of catching a steelhead than in maximizing the sport in pursuing one.

Yes, Nymph curious. Bugs at play.

>Calling steelhead "steelies" kinda' makes you cheap, IMHO tho, more derogatory than a term of endearment.

I am cheap, but not real cheap. Steelies stays in my vocabulary for now. Been using the term since 1978, not gonna change quickly.

>4. about that book: Blashphemy! Clearly more focused on the result than the pursuit, might as well employ a spinning rod and reel.

Noted and respected.

>I reiterate, anyone who "needs" to catch a steelhead ought not fly fish for them. It simply doesn't make sense. Fly fishing for steelhead is simply about obtaining the maximum sport for the effort expended, and while catching steelhead is a priority, it's not as high a priority as catching one under one's own terms of limited effectiveness.

Sg [/quote]

Good Stuff!

For give me for saying this.... I'm not a purist by no means .

I'm a Steelhead junkie. My fix of choice, is a swung wet fly grab period I've caught em from corky's & yarn, eggs, and spinners. It's an addiction I know, but I'm seldom ever satisfied. Which constitutes fishing every weekend from July to Nov. Only the agonizing cold drives me to stop. Call me what you will but I speak the truth.

Peace.

Mf

Personally speaking, catching these critters on the swing, regardless of method, gives the most immediate high. True for corkie and yarn, bug, or spoon.

But My preference is on the drift, regardless of method, since it pokes at my inadequacies to make me a better fisher. I love to feel the snag that isn't a snag. Almost happier than a spoon take down. The engagement for me is real and immediate. Keeps me focused. I think this is where personalities comes in to play for types of fun and satisfaction.

Tight Lines!

There's something intimate about throwing a dry line, and knowing from the slightest tick, to a heart pounding boil....is a fish.

I probably won't learn to skate a fly until I retire. Because time is precious and from what I've seen it takes too much discipline.

Mf

Can i change change my mind? I don't have to use the term steelies at all, but which term should I use?

Yes, and sensing a soft wet pick up is at the top of my skill level as it is.

DR,

They are steelhead. Steelies, steelface, metalhead are all lowbrow, which is consistent with and OK if fishing with lowbrow methods. Fishing the swing for steelhead is high falutin', so no lowbrow terms are allowed when so engaged.

MF,

Skating a dry isn't difficult, just more work. I can do it, and love the surface take, but I fish in part to relaxe. It's more relaxing to fish a wet fly on the swing and stare at the birds, sky, and other surroundings than it is to pay continuous attention to the skating fly. If I weren't lazy, I'd skate more.

Sg

My personal experience confirms Sg's suspicion that nymphing allows a fly angler to fish a wider range of holding water more effectively than a swing setup alone. Most of our steelhead rivers have only a limited number of runs/tailouts that consistently hold fish and are structured so that they will swing effectively. Depending on the river, there may be literally miles between those most ideal of holding areas, and there is generally a lot of different water in between that holds fish that can be reached, if only by less civilized means. This, in my mind, is the best argument for learning to fish "nymphs," and it is why I usually carry both a swinging and a nymphing setup with me on the river. There is a decided downside to this rule in that it requires me to do a lot of backtracking to pick up the rod I didn't use in a given situation before I can move on to the next spot, but it's a price I'm willing to pay for a better chance at success on a given day.

No matter what your preferred approach may be, your biggest keys to success (with credit to others' comments) will likely be finding fish that are in water you can effectively fish, presenting something (anything?) the way they want it, and maintaining good knots and sharp hooks. A lot like fishing gear, really.

There are times when October Caddis adults are about and it's o-dark early, no wind, first pass.
I would think that something properly skating would be a legit menu item for Mr. Big under these conditions.

FF02,

It really depends on the river. Generally speaking, if one can write generally about something as intricately specific as steelhead fly fishing, larger rivers, such as the Skagit, Sauk, Sky, the Hoh and others, fish the swing effectively and more efficiently than nymphing. The swing covers large and broad holding water much faster than can be done by nymphing. Nymphing excels where the holding water is a narrow slot, and especially so if it is also relatively deeper and swifter than the surrounding water.

That water that doesn't fish the swing well used to be called "conservation drifts."

DD,

OC adults are usually more active in the evening, making fishing until "fish dark" very productive. Not to say OC aren't out and about in the morning, but among bugs, OC aren't "morning people." And when conditions are right, steelhead really like 'em.

Sg

Geez Louize, Sg,, I missed the humor the first time. Sometimes I can be a little too literal.

I went to a "flyfishing seminar" weekend 3 years ago in Eugene and thought I was on another planet. Here were these uber tweedy dudes smokin and jokin with the boys from deliverance, everybody drooling over the latest and greatest current set up. I couldn't believe it.

You are so right about staring at the birds, sky and other surroundings. Pretty sure I have missed a few pickups. I just don't want to broach the boat!

Sg:

No argument there. No two rivers are the same. I also generally agree with your generalizations. If I'm limited to one setup on the Lower Hoh, while it does have a lot of sneaky lies that can only be reached effectively by nymphing, I'm packing a spey rod, a set of sink tips, and some big, bright flies. On the Sol Duc, while it does have some great swing water (especially lower down), I'll opt for a nymphing setup.

Thankfully, nobody forces me to opt for one or the other, so I bring 'em both (generally speaking, of course) for maximum coverage.

DR,

No worries. The humor can be hard to see on the interwebz. Many distinctions in fishing have become blurred due to new materials and methods. May as well have a little fun and joke around with it. Why some of my best lowbrow friends fish with bait, worms even.

Sg

pink worms???

Skating dries is my preferred method. The unpredictability and excitement of the surface take is the drug I can't get enough of! Sometimes the fly just disappears with a dimple and other times there's an explosion like somebody threw a boulder in the river. Even had a fish take once jumping straight up like a missile launching. Detecting the take is not an issue....the hardest thing to do is what you should do when you see the strike....nothing! Wait until the fish starts to pull and you got him. Real bugs aren't tied to a line and if you strike too soon you will usually pull the fly away (been there, done that). If the water conditions are clear and relatively warm (high 40's or more) it is a great way to hook a summer steelhead. Don't avoid trying it because you think it is difficult.

Cool!!
And goofily reminds me of Chinook strikes and Steelhead on plugs where the best thing to do initially is, Nothing.

Gotta add Dry Flies to my list. Dry flies, check.