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#668303 - 03/08/11 06:08 PM Re: "Flossing" - A Different Angle [Re: Todd]
MPM Offline
Spawner

Registered: 12/09/08
Posts: 764
Loc: Seattle, WA
I think we should distinguish between different terms: legal, ethical, and sporting.

Flossing is illegal in Washington. So that answers one question.

Some would say flossing is not sporting since the fish is not willingly biting. But it still takes some amount of skill to drift a line into a fish's mouth, I'd say. Even moreso to do it without snagging the fish in some other body part. Is hunting "not sporting" because the prey is not willingly walking into the bullet/shot/arrowhead? I'm not sure why the willing take is the only way for fishing to be considered "sporting" (even though that's the part I like the most).

As for ethical, I'd say flossing differs from typical snagging if it's intentionally done in a manner that allows for safe catch and release, which is not the case with typical snagging (i.e., ripping the treble through the water trying to catch any part of the fish).

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#668304 - 03/08/11 06:11 PM Re: "Flossing" - A Different Angle [Re: MPM]
stlhdr1 Offline
BUCK NASTY!!

Registered: 01/26/00
Posts: 6312
Loc: Vancouver, WA
Originally Posted By: MPM
Is hunting "not sporting" because the prey is not willingly walking into the bullet/shot/arrowhead?


My elk last year was nearly eating out my hand when I touched off the arrow at 6.5 yards, it was so close I picked the shot between the 2nd and 3rd rib... I flossed the hell of it's heart....

Keith
_________________________
It's time to put the red rubber nose away, clown seasons over.


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#668305 - 03/08/11 06:33 PM Re: "Flossing" - A Different Angle [Re: Todd]
gooybob Offline
Spawner

Registered: 03/01/11
Posts: 981
Loc: Tacoma
I couldn't agree more with the anti-flossers. Come on dude, flossing is snagging and very little sport is involved. I'm not denying that it may take skill to be a good flosser just as it takes skill to be a poacher. Now that I think about it you may have something. You could start the first annual Floss Fest and Poaching Show. Or maybe it could be called Poach Fest or even better than that how about Flossapaloosa?! You can have a light line floss derby. One booth could have a seminar called "The Treble Hook Advantage". This booth would demonstrate the advantages of snagging with a treble hook and a 15 pound downrigger ball. There is always spear fishing. You can debut a new theme song called "Flossing with the Oldies!" Flossing is for human teeth and not for poaching. Although I knew a guy that flossed with 20 LB Maxima...and he really was flossing his own teeth. I'm almost sure he hooked himself in the mouth.

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#668307 - 03/08/11 06:34 PM Re: "Flossing" - A Different Angle [Re: stlhdr1]
Todd Offline
Dick Nipples

Registered: 03/08/99
Posts: 27840
Loc: Seattle, Washington USA
Why is it harder to release a fish that is snagged in the ass instead of snagged in the face? I'd say you're even less likely to hit an eye or tongue, or gill, if you just asshook 'em...

Where they are hooked is not a consideration between snagging and fishing...

Fish on...

Todd
_________________________


Team Flying Super Ditch Pickle


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#668310 - 03/08/11 06:45 PM Re: "Flossing" - A Different Angle [Re: stlhdr1]
Ickstream Steel Offline
Juvenile at Sea

Registered: 01/10/08
Posts: 103
It's especially flossing when they attack the surface film and proceed another 7' vertically, and it's 85 degrees, and I'm wearing a t-shirt, and I haven't thought about salmon in 8 months. Let's not confuse the issues. Fly fishing done right is not flossing, even if flossing done right involves "flies." Think it must be time to polish up the triple lenses, recalibrate the headphones, and oil up the step ladder.
IS out.
_________________________
Ickstream Steel

The eye is the window to /main.html

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#668314 - 03/08/11 06:59 PM Re: "Flossing" - A Different Angle [Re: Nor Cal Drifter]
Rocket Red Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 02/14/06
Posts: 2533
Loc: Elma
Originally Posted By: Nor Cal Drifter
Originally Posted By: Rocket Red
[quote=Nor Cal Drifter]
My ethics don't change at all on the reds. It is known flossing with the intent to kill. A straight up harvest of meat.


RR -

Not trying to argue - trying to understand. So...is it OK then to floss when in AK if I am going to harvest the fish? What if I am goingt o C&R? What if I am fishing in the lower 48 and I plan to harvest the fish - a straight up harvest of meat - is it OK then? Or is it always taboo once you cross the border with AK?


There is no argument.

Floss fish all you want, I don't care, but just don't say there is any sport in it. Just like flossing reds on the Kenai or whatever. I wouldn't have a probelm doing it (because it is legal), but I also wouldn't classify it as sport fishing.

You can cork your bat, improve your lie, stack the deck, or floss your fish I don't care. It is not sporting and without the sport, what is the point? There are a lot of unwritten rules in the sports world, if you willingly choose to break them that is your call, no one else's.
_________________________
WDFW - Turning outdoorsmen into golfers since 1994.

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#668321 - 03/08/11 07:35 PM Re: "Flossing" - A Different Angle [Re: Rocket Red]
Man of logic Offline
Spawner

Registered: 12/20/10
Posts: 950
Loc: the moon
Where I come from, flossers/snaggers are just guys who have given up on getting the fish to bite. I theorized that they struggled more with this problem because their fingers smell like shitt.
_________________________
All of my thoughts are sophisticated and complex.

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#668326 - 03/08/11 08:02 PM Re: "Flossing" - A Different Angle [Re: ]
stlhdr1 Offline
BUCK NASTY!!

Registered: 01/26/00
Posts: 6312
Loc: Vancouver, WA
Originally Posted By: 2MANY
There should be a fishing ediquette(sp?) course simular to the hunter safety course that is required to get your fishing liscense.
Those that were taught ethics/morals as kids by responsible parents would probably breeze through it. Those that fail should be forced to study the sportsman's code of unwritten rules. Those whose fingures smell like shitt should be taught to wipe correctly.
As the Mystical Man once said............Educate.


Ban Eagle Claw, Ugly Stick, Fenwick, FLY rods and all rods under $100 and you eliminate flossers...

Keith
_________________________
It's time to put the red rubber nose away, clown seasons over.


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#668328 - 03/08/11 08:04 PM Re: "Flossing" - A Different Angle [Re: stlhdr1]
bait dunker Offline
Village Idiot

Registered: 12/06/09
Posts: 597
_________________________
Say no to drugs

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#668330 - 03/08/11 08:14 PM Re: "Flossing" - A Different Angle [Re: bait dunker]
stlhdr1 Offline
BUCK NASTY!!

Registered: 01/26/00
Posts: 6312
Loc: Vancouver, WA
One of the most entertaining things during the summer steelhead season is watching fly guys hog a hole trying to floss a group of fish laying there.... $400 glasses, $600 rod, $500 reel, $1000 getup on and they sit there and try to line the fish. I've always been impressed with their focus and concentration... Diehard bugchuckers...

Nothing like that evil eye you get when you walk up to talk to them...

Keith thumbs
_________________________
It's time to put the red rubber nose away, clown seasons over.


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#668332 - 03/08/11 08:20 PM Re: "Flossing" - A Different Angle [Re: bait dunker]
fish4brains Offline
Dah Rivah Stinkah Pink Mastah

Registered: 08/23/06
Posts: 6216
Loc: zipper
news flossing reds in Alaska IS snagging but it's ok, everybody does it.
_________________________
...
Propping up an obsolete fishing industry at the expense of sound fisheries management is irresponsible. -Sg



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#668338 - 03/08/11 08:40 PM Re: "Flossing" - A Different Angle [Re: fish4brains]
eyeFISH Offline
Ornamental Rice Bowl

Registered: 11/24/03
Posts: 12619
AK sockeye is all about pure unadulterated HARVEST of NON-biting fish.

They can either be gillnetted, dipnetted, and/or snagged in the mouth.

AK residents have the option to exercise the full array of choices.

Nonresidents have only one choice... snagging them in the mouth.

Snagging them anywhere else is NOT allowed by law, but like most wak/stak fisheries, the practice runs rampant.

Angling it is NOT....

Angling entails attracting a fish to your offering and enticing it to strike.

Willful take on the part of the fish is the fundamental premise of angling as a sport.

The act of force-feeding them a length of monofilament, no matter how slyly or cunningly executed, versus the act of enticing willful take are mutually exclusive endeavors.

CASE CLOSED
_________________________
"Let every angler who loves to fish think what it would mean to him to find the fish were gone." (Zane Grey)

"If you don't kill them, they will spawn." (Carcassman)


The Keen Eye MD
Long Live the Kings!

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#668339 - 03/08/11 08:41 PM Re: "Flossing" - A Different Angle [Re: fish4brains]
Nor Cal Drifter Offline
Spawner

Registered: 01/28/05
Posts: 730
Loc: Sacramento, CA
Originally Posted By: fish4brains
news flossing reds in Alaska IS snagging but it's ok, everybody does it.


Todd asked me what my point was when I protested his comment that I was simply looking for an argument. The quote above sums it up. I can't get past the hypocrisy of the guy who slams flossing but then turns around and does it in AK. It's ok there because it's meat fishing, but not ok here. Makes no sense to me. Like one previous post said...is hunting unethical because the deer didn't take the bullet or arrow in the ribs willingly? What about guys who use feeding stations. The list goes on. I just find it interesting how so many here believe they know with 100% certainty what is "ethical."


Edited by Nor Cal Drifter (03/08/11 08:42 PM)
_________________________
"Eventually, all things merge into one, and a river runs through it."

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#668341 - 03/08/11 08:52 PM Re: "Flossing" - A Different Angle [Re: Nor Cal Drifter]
Todd Offline
Dick Nipples

Registered: 03/08/99
Posts: 27840
Loc: Seattle, Washington USA
It's not "fishing" when they do it in Alaska, either, even if it is legal, just because they use a fishing rod.

If that's what you were getting at, then why the comments about hooking them in safer spots, or the "sport" of the fight (regardless of how they are hooked), or whatever?

If your point was really...really?...to point out that those who think flossing fish around here are hypocrites because they think it's ok to floss sockeye on the Kenai, then why didn't you just say that?

Seems to me that you're looking for a justification for flossing, sorry...there is none, not if you want to call it "fishing", instead of snagging.

Fish on...

Todd
_________________________


Team Flying Super Ditch Pickle


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#668342 - 03/08/11 08:52 PM Re: "Flossing" - A Different Angle [Re: Nor Cal Drifter]
Man of logic Offline
Spawner

Registered: 12/20/10
Posts: 950
Loc: the moon
I find it funny when flossers have to search for rationale.
_________________________
All of my thoughts are sophisticated and complex.

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#668345 - 03/08/11 08:57 PM Re: "Flossing" - A Different Angle [Re: Man of logic]
Todd Offline
Dick Nipples

Registered: 03/08/99
Posts: 27840
Loc: Seattle, Washington USA
Originally Posted By: Jgrizzle
I find it funny when flossers have to search for rationale.


They always do, and it always comes down to calling those who choose not to snag some sort of hypocrite.

I'm surprised the "food is expensive", "they're just hatchery fish", or "who are you to judge?" comments have come out yet...they're the usual progression of this twice yearly subject.

Sometimes they even roll into the "Do you always drive the speed limit?" and "Are you always honest on your taxes?" comments...seriously.

Fish on...

Todd
_________________________


Team Flying Super Ditch Pickle


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#668346 - 03/08/11 09:00 PM Re: "Flossing" - A Different Angle [Re: Todd]
Dan S. Offline
It all boils down to this - I'm right, everyone else is wrong, and anyone who disputes this is clearly a dumbfuck.

Registered: 03/07/99
Posts: 16958
Loc: SE Olympia, WA
The annual flossing thread.

rofl

Awesome. thumbs
_________________________
She was standin' alone over by the juke box, like she'd something to sell.
I said "baby, what's the goin' price?" She told me to go to hell.

Bon Scott - Shot Down in Flames

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#668347 - 03/08/11 09:02 PM Re: "Flossing" - A Different Angle [Re: Todd]
Sol Duc Offline
April Fool

Registered: 06/18/01
Posts: 15727
"Gotta feed the family" rofl
_________________________
He who joyfully marches in rank and file has already earned my contempt. He has been given a large brain by mistake, since for him the spinal cord would suffice.

- Albert Einstein.

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#668348 - 03/08/11 09:03 PM Re: "Flossing" - A Different Angle [Re: Dan S.]
Driftfishnw Offline
Steelhead Hitman

Registered: 02/10/09
Posts: 1952
Lets not forget about the Lk. Washington sockeye trolling floss-fest...

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#668349 - 03/08/11 09:05 PM Re: "Flossing" - A Different Angle [Re: Nor Cal Drifter]
seastrike Offline
Hey Man....It's cool...

Registered: 08/18/02
Posts: 4242
Loc: seattle
I for one am happy that many people know with 100% certainy what ethical is.
Some things I'm teaching my son:
We don't shoot deer and elk from the truck.
We don't floss on purpose.
We don't intentionally snag fish.
We release wild steelhead.
A duck has to have a little bit of water under him before you start blazing.
Though not illegal we do not bait deer or elk.
I would bait bear if it were legal. I'd also like to do a cougar hunt over hounds once or twice if were legal.
We try our best not to step on other people's water when we drift by.
Hunting and fishing is not a competition. We are out there to have fun and not wreck another hunter or angler's day.
And the biggest.....teaching how to not be "that guy" at the put in/take out...especially during king and coho season at popular salt spots. I think that one pisses me off more than flossers.

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