I think we should distinguish between different terms: legal, ethical, and sporting.

Flossing is illegal in Washington. So that answers one question.

Some would say flossing is not sporting since the fish is not willingly biting. But it still takes some amount of skill to drift a line into a fish's mouth, I'd say. Even moreso to do it without snagging the fish in some other body part. Is hunting "not sporting" because the prey is not willingly walking into the bullet/shot/arrowhead? I'm not sure why the willing take is the only way for fishing to be considered "sporting" (even though that's the part I like the most).

As for ethical, I'd say flossing differs from typical snagging if it's intentionally done in a manner that allows for safe catch and release, which is not the case with typical snagging (i.e., ripping the treble through the water trying to catch any part of the fish).

My elk last year was nearly eating out my hand when I touched off the arrow at 6.5 yards, it was so close I picked the shot between the 2nd and 3rd rib... I flossed the hell of it's heart....

Keith

I couldn't agree more with the anti-flossers. Come on dude, flossing is snagging and very little sport is involved. I'm not denying that it may take skill to be a good flosser just as it takes skill to be a poacher. Now that I think about it you may have something. You could start the first annual Floss Fest and Poaching Show. Or maybe it could be called Poach Fest or even better than that how about Flossapaloosa?! You can have a light line floss derby. One booth could have a seminar called "The Treble Hook Advantage". This booth would demonstrate the advantages of snagging with a treble hook and a 15 pound downrigger ball. There is always spear fishing. You can debut a new theme song called "Flossing with the Oldies!" Flossing is for human teeth and not for poaching. Although I knew a guy that flossed with 20 LB Maxima...and he really was flossing his own teeth. I'm almost sure he hooked himself in the mouth.

Why is it harder to release a fish that is snagged in the ass instead of snagged in the face? I'd say you're even less likely to hit an eye or tongue, or gill, if you just asshook 'em...

Where they are hooked is not a consideration between snagging and fishing...

Fish on...

Todd

It's especially flossing when they attack the surface film and proceed another 7' vertically, and it's 85 degrees, and I'm wearing a t-shirt, and I haven't thought about salmon in 8 months. Let's not confuse the issues. Fly fishing done right is not flossing, even if flossing done right involves "flies." Think it must be time to polish up the triple lenses, recalibrate the headphones, and oil up the step ladder.
IS out.

There is no argument.

Floss fish all you want, I don't care, but just don't say there is any sport in it. Just like flossing reds on the Kenai or whatever. I wouldn't have a probelm doing it (because it is legal), but I also wouldn't classify it as sport fishing.

You can cork your bat, improve your lie, stack the deck, or floss your fish I don't care. It is not sporting and without the sport, what is the point? There are a lot of unwritten rules in the sports world, if you willingly choose to break them that is your call, no one else's.

Where I come from, flossers/snaggers are just guys who have given up on getting the fish to bite. I theorized that they struggled more with this problem because their fingers smell like shitt.

Ban Eagle Claw, Ugly Stick, Fenwick, FLY rods and all rods under $100 and you eliminate flossers...

Keith

One of the most entertaining things during the summer steelhead season is watching fly guys hog a hole trying to floss a group of fish laying there.... $400 glasses, $600 rod, $500 reel, $1000 getup on and they sit there and try to line the fish. I've always been impressed with their focus and concentration... Diehard bugchuckers...

Nothing like that evil eye you get when you walk up to talk to them...

Keith

flossing reds in Alaska IS snagging but it's ok, everybody does it.

AK sockeye is all about pure unadulterated HARVEST of NON-biting fish.

They can either be gillnetted, dipnetted, and/or snagged in the mouth.

AK residents have the option to exercise the full array of choices.

Nonresidents have only one choice... snagging them in the mouth.

Snagging them anywhere else is NOT allowed by law, but like most wak/stak fisheries, the practice runs rampant.

Angling it is NOT....

Angling entails attracting a fish to your offering and enticing it to strike.

Willful take on the part of the fish is the fundamental premise of angling as a sport.

The act of force-feeding them a length of monofilament, no matter how slyly or cunningly executed, versus the act of enticing willful take are mutually exclusive endeavors.

CASE CLOSED

Todd asked me what my point was when I protested his comment that I was simply looking for an argument. The quote above sums it up. I can't get past the hypocrisy of the guy who slams flossing but then turns around and does it in AK. It's ok there because it's meat fishing, but not ok here. Makes no sense to me. Like one previous post said...is hunting unethical because the deer didn't take the bullet or arrow in the ribs willingly? What about guys who use feeding stations. The list goes on. I just find it interesting how so many here believe they know with 100% certainty what is "ethical."

It's not "fishing" when they do it in Alaska, either, even if it is legal, just because they use a fishing rod.

If that's what you were getting at, then why the comments about hooking them in safer spots, or the "sport" of the fight (regardless of how they are hooked), or whatever?

If your point was really...really?...to point out that those who think flossing fish around here are hypocrites because they think it's ok to floss sockeye on the Kenai, then why didn't you just say that?

Seems to me that you're looking for a justification for flossing, sorry...there is none, not if you want to call it "fishing", instead of snagging.

Fish on...

Todd

I find it funny when flossers have to search for rationale.

They always do, and it always comes down to calling those who choose not to snag some sort of hypocrite.

I'm surprised the "food is expensive", "they're just hatchery fish", or "who are you to judge?" comments have come out yet...they're the usual progression of this twice yearly subject.

Sometimes they even roll into the "Do you always drive the speed limit?" and "Are you always honest on your taxes?" comments...seriously.

Fish on...

Todd

The annual flossing thread.



Awesome.

"Gotta feed the family"

Lets not forget about the Lk. Washington sockeye trolling floss-fest...

I for one am happy that many people know with 100% certainy what ethical is.
Some things I'm teaching my son:
We don't shoot deer and elk from the truck.
We don't floss on purpose.
We don't intentionally snag fish.
We release wild steelhead.
A duck has to have a little bit of water under him before you start blazing.
Though not illegal we do not bait deer or elk.
I would bait bear if it were legal. I'd also like to do a cougar hunt over hounds once or twice if were legal.
We try our best not to step on other people's water when we drift by.
Hunting and fishing is not a competition. We are out there to have fun and not wreck another hunter or angler's day.
And the biggest.....teaching how to not be "that guy" at the put in/take out...especially during king and coho season at popular salt spots. I think that one pisses me off more than flossers.