Add to the Oct tribal 48 hrs... Sept 23-25.

Any official word on Chehalis springs?

May 1 thru June 30 up to Newaukum mouth.... one fish bag.

Correct.

To summarize the combined Chehalis gillnet seasons in terms of relative time...

QIN is fishing eleven 24-hour periods from Sept 23 thru Oct 18.

R6 is fishing six 12-hour periods and one 24-hour period from Oct 1 thru 22.

What is the Nov nets for QIN

I wanted to know: that with computers, 24 hours reporting, could the gillnetting totals be kept "close to allocation"....was told GH doesn't go by quota.....so it would seem that they get to "fish total days", so the blood bath "could be great" and the bank accounts full......with the sportsmen fish.

The sportsmen have been very, very good at doing this when they have Chinook openers in the bay, too...I hope I'm recalling this correctly, but I think we had a 300 fish quota a few years ago, and nearly twice that were killed on the first day, and the kill season continued for 13 more days...or sumpin' like that.

Fish on...

Todd

I have nothing published, but was told by R6 staff that they would stay out of the water after their 11 salmon days until mid-November.

Looking at the calendar, the week of T-giving begins Sun Nov 18. Based on the past 8 years tribal hatchery "steelhead" seasons for late coho, a betting man would put money on 4-5 days per week beginning Sun Nov 18 thru the Friday before Christmas (Dec 21)... that's 5 weeks. Then take a break for a week for the holidays.... then back at it 5 days a week for the 2013 steelhead season thru April.

OK but I think I want them to say so I e-mailed Barbara. Thx Francis.

Now to the seasons let us break down this thing by month but keep in mind weather is important as wet or dry Sept or Oct moves things around. So lets do this, Sept and it is tribal 48 hrs. Sept 23-25. This is going to be a targeted Summer Chinook fishery and the fish caught will be primarily upper Chehalis and East Fork Satsop. Summer Chinook are slow moving but the EFS fish will make Schafer Park by the 10th of October ALWAYS. Upper Chehalis they trickle up but most hold below Porter somewhere near the Saginaw reach until rain or time to spawn drives them. Not many Coho in this set.

Now the real effect of this for FW sport is that the first two weeks of the Chinook retention in October for the FW Chehalis is going to get moped up. The Chinook are far from spawn time and they just move slow and week of the 23 / 25th will sweep things dry. Some will fill to be sure but the nets will only be out 5 days before the NT nets go in but they are daytime or at least I assume that is what 6-6 means 6 AM to 6 PM. So the impacts will be lessened some as Chinook will get above Lakeside. But do not bet on a lot unless it rains early then the time line speeds up.

Well beat on this look at the Sept Tribal net impacts as that is the purpose to put out in the open the real FW sports season for the inland community. Add to it whatever as I will take the time to tear apart the first two weeks of October next but it is COFFEE TIME!

An interesting conservation ethic. We estimate the number of fish, set a schedule, and fish it; regardless of catch.

Unless it is the ocean. There, we estimate the number, set the schedule, and extend/increase the fishery if the fish aren't caught.

At least we know what is most important.................

Yep regardless of run size, in the dining hall of paper fish, there's always a seat for maximum harvest.... usually at the head of the table.

WDFW is looking to save money. Since the forecasts are meaningless (keep fishing after the number is reached) stop doing them. Just set up an agreeable schedule and go for it.

Won't need to do catch monitoring, since what is caught is not important.

Saves a lot of money.

In-season management is the sportsman's answer to reconciling the difference between pre-season predictions versus how the actual run materializes in real time. But in-season mgt is applied very inconsistently if at all. Examples....

In the ocean, we take a scientific pre-season guess at abundance and arrive at a set harvest quota. Once the quota is set, the run-size becomes completely irrelevant. Bottom line, the harvest quota drives the season... we fish to the quota. In-season adjustments will be made to maximize harvest of that quota over a full season.... for the charter fleet, that means stretching things out thru Labor Day weekend. If the fish are more abundant than predicted, anglers encounter more fish than expected and burn thru the quota faster. Mgt action = throttle the fishery down to keep it from shutting down too early... less days per week, reduced bag. If the actual abundance is less than predicted, anglers encounter fewer fish than expected and burn thru the quota too slowly, threatening to leave fish unharvested before the charter season ends. Mgt action = throttle the fishery up.... more days, bigger bag, bonk wild fish. Completely bass-ackward! Not to mention that the ocean is harvesting on multiple return-years, not just this years crop of spawners.

In the Columbia, we manage to a fixed exploitation rate. In the case of spring chinook, we manage for 1% exploitation of the wild run. In season efforts are focused on continuous assessment of the real-time exploitation, and updating the run size as the season unfolds. The fishery gets shut down early if we max out the 1% rate. It gets extended days if we haven't hit the rate cap (impact). Bottom line we fish to a fixed rate, managing the schedule in-season to achieve the rate.

Then there is Region 6 management of Grays Harbor. We take a scientific guess at how many fish are coming. We decide how many are expendable based on surpluses above escapement goals, and set seasons to maximally harvest that surplus. Where there are few or zero surplus fish, we manage to an exploitation rate.... a 5% impact cap. And since there are mixed stocks, we manage for the weak stock. Seasons are crafted to maximize the available harvest of the weakest stock, even if it means forgoing maximal harvest of a stronger stock. Historically, chinook has been the limiting stock constraining the fishing schedule. Chum seem to come into play as a limiting stock on about a 10 year oscillating cycle. This is the brand of conservation that occurs in the region. And on paper it looks GREAT!

BUT......

While the fishery schedule is scientifically crafted, strict conservation goals are achieved on paper, and a final season is agreed to at NOF..... management promptly goes into cruise control. We simply fish to the pre-season schedule. The actual run-size becomes irrelevant.... and no attempt is made to monitor it in-season. The actual harvest also becomes irrelevant.... and ZERO attempt is made to monitor it in-season. And by simple deductive reasoning, it follows that the escapement objective also becomes irrelevant. We just find out after the fact. And if we don't make it.... oh well.

Yes, if the run comes in as predicted, run-timing follows historic patterns, and the fishing power of the fleets align with weather/water conditions, everything works out great. But that's a lot of ifs. And when they don't happen according to our expectations.... like the run doesn't materialize in size/run-timing according to plan, or lack of rain kegs the fish up for a major slayfest.... NOTHING is done in-season to adjust for it.

So in the end, (and I know I'm going to offend some of the readers.... esp those lurking from R6) the conservation objective in GH is achieved as much on blind luck as it is any "management" efforts. By not managing in-season, R6 is only doing half the job. And this is reflected in the historic post-season salmon escapements in the basin. We historically set seasons that habitually take more fish than what was planned at NOF. Conservation objectives tend to be met only when MORE fish show up than what we expected pre-season.

Like CarcassMan said... "An interesting conservation ethic. We estimate the number of fish, set a schedule, and fish it; regardless of catch."

So.....the $64,000 question.

What will it take to force a shift in mgt. style at Region 6?

legislative action?

directive from Phil?

directive from the commission?

I asked that at NOF, one of my many questions........

"we don't have quotas".....I even asked WHY if they do in R5, why the difference in R6...... I don't remember the exact answer but I could see it wasn't going where I thought it should.......

Of course sports work on a daily quota......what ever limit is but the netters, just get to take, take, take and then take some more.....and get to continue taking until the fixed days are up........grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

This management style....really does need to change!!!!!!!!

Bill, Your experience fishing R6 for so many decades... seeing all of it change so much, can drive a guy nuts.

Like you, I'm not the only one that thinks that wild salmonid populations would likely benifit from less commercial harvest. I know us sport guys are not all that proficient at keeping fish off the spawning grounds but for a few years, I'd like to give it a try.

I do miss you.........My holloween goodies are still packed around in my boat..............

I'm not sure I can get away from the "pump house areas" and have to subject myself to fishing below, in, along side all the "walls of death"....

DrifterWA, Is the Nooch going be open for Coho ?

yes it is local.. 2 coho a day but only one can be wild..

Bill, some those 10 year old candy bars must be a little stale by now.

If you decide to start fishing down in the Harbor, maybe an old cut plug Baby Ruth and a hangback rig might just put some fish with scales attached in the boat than what we normally cacth way upstream.