OK,
Got a couple of questions for the folks that would like to see wolves re-introduced back to Washington.

Lets say it gets the go ahead and a permit is issued for re-introduction.
Where do you suggest the funding for this come from. Would you like to see it taken from another program and if so what program would you like to see shortchanged?

Lets do some simple "guestamints". For the re-introduction to the proposed Olympic Mtns. pack.
********

Wolf transfer from outside area 25,000

Hire a couple of Biologists at 50,000 year, each. (100,000)

Couple of trucks 60,000

Administration costs, office, equipment, computers, etc. etc. 30,000

Admin, Personel (1-2) 30,000 year for one, so lets say 45,000 for 1 1/2

Miscellaneous Equipment, Collars, GPS's, plane/helicopter etc. etc. 50,000

I am sure there are many more expendatures, but I am not trying to write a budget but only to get you thinking about the funding end of things and the costs associated with doing what some think is a positive move for Washington.

I ask again, what programs would you like to see cut or reduced to appease a user group that does not contribute to the WDFW budget, but only causes an expendature?

Would a forced Wolf Enhancement stamp be acceptable?

I'd support it. Costs would be much higher than what you proposed, but it's still feasible if he ever get a director/governor (And I do mean BOTH) who do anything but sit on their ass and try to look serious.

Those collars are expensive! The cougar ones are 7k EACH... think of a whole pack for wolves. DAMN.... I think a lot of it should be volunteer work.

It would really be nice to see some more wolves in Washington though. Coyotes are nice to see, but I'd like to see more exotic wildlife in my time (I'm 16)... More bears, cougs, definitely more bobcats, loons...

Curtis

P.S. Start kissin my ass now, cause in 10-20 years, I'll be runnin for gov.

If you ask me it's way too expensive for a department already underfunded. What I think they would cut if implemented would be the hatcheries & some more game cops. I haven't seen a warden in years & in my book I should be getting checked all the time. Maybe it's my preference in places I go. I'm not fishing in the terminal areas or road hunting so that could be part of it. With the reintroductions of wolves elswhere they will migrate to this state on the east side very shortly but I bet they already have. I read that they are eating livestock in Oregon already. So you may see some along the eastern Oregon, Idaho, & BC borders.

BBVD,

As stated I was not trying to write a budget, but just using some "guestament" figures. I am sure I left many thing out and my numbers could be very soft.
The point I am trying to get to here is the fact that these programs cost alot of money! and since there seem to be many on this board that are in love with the wolf and want to see re-introduction(as evident in the GMU 346 thread).
I am asking those folks and you, how should it be funded, what programs do you want cut from to pay for it?

Knopish,, I am very relieved to see someone that thinks with their head instead of their bleeding heart if you get a chance scan the GMU 346 thread and you'll see why I started this thread.

HBP,, where are you?

I would NOT like to see wolves re-introduced to Washington. If you want to see what happens, just look at Idaho....Areas inhabited by wolves have had their elk herds decimated and the elk left no longer bugle. I don't want to see that in Washington and to be honest, I don't think there is enough wildreness to keep wolves and people seperate.

Voodoo...More bears and cougars? HUH?? There are plenty of bears and cougars in this state as it is with a growing population thanks to anti-hunting iniatives. These critters aren't our buddies.. cool to see, but we definitely do not need more of them.

Maybe vodoo aught to try and get out and look around a bit. You need more bears and cougars than we already have. I guess you don't like deer very much. 1 deer a week for EVERY cougar running around out there.

Too many things wrong with bringing wolves back. They too will take their toll on the deer and elk herds. To make it work we as sportstmen(cwugirl) would have to quit hunting all together to leave enough game so the wolves wouldn't completely wipe them out. Do you honestly think that mother nature can survive with us, wolves, cougars, and all the other creatures that get a deer here and there. A lot has changed since wolves were wiped out. Unless you will quit hunting yourself, quit promoting wolves. Unless of course you can come up with something that shows I'm wrong here. GOOD LUCK to ya.
Oh and another thing if wolves are somehow reintroduced some day. Don't cry about how you didn't get your deer because the wolves got it for you.
Glow

We've got to many cougars already. Anyone who wants more cougars hasn't been out much. We don't need wolves added to the party. If they want to introduce wolves they should put them somewhere close to seattle. Maybe near a park on the east side. Then some of the anti-hunting yuppies who want to see more wildlife will get to see just that.

Glowball brings up a good point. Wolf diet would consist mostly of deer and elk? right.

Well the areas these animals will be introduced will have a decrease in the above mentioned species, thus resulting in less consumptive users, thus resulting in less income($$) for WDFW.
I think we could call this a trickle effect from the re-introduction.
Sportsmen not buying licences because of less opportunities, because of the wolf depradation = less monies to the department, but then we now have more expendatures to support "wolf" programs with less and less income.

I didnt read in CWU post where she was in favor of this. It sounded likea resounding "NO"
Did you confuse her with BBVD?

BBVD,, I surely hope that before you get elected into office you will learn some realalistic lessons, maybe finance "101"
We have too many "fuzzy math" politicians out there now.
I apploud you for thinking down the road and having goals, but hopefully when you get in that position, common sense will have entrenched itself within you and the knee jerk, warm and fuzzy, feel good decisions will not be part of your decision making processes.

HBP, where is your finance plan for re-introduction? I am very curious! Gas tax? Sin tax? How about a tax on all organically grown food? or do you think the sportsmen should pay for it?
Come on whatcha got?

Program cuts to fund a WDFW program ? You gotta be kidding. This is Washington State, man. They'll just tack it on to the hunting license, or approve some sort of other tax without voter approval (kinda like the gas tax they are shoving through now, or the stadium taxes, or ferry fees, etc , etc,...to replace the ones the voters rejected at the polls) Us dumb voters can't possibly know what we really want. Thank goodness we have the legislature to keep spending our money. Otherwise we might actually have enough money to hunt and fish as much as we wanted!

Heres another no vote for the wolve reintro!!! We have enough problems with the bear and cougs that we don't need to add the wolves. The problem is that its the same people who voted out hound hunting as a means to manage predators that are wanting the wolves so those of us with common sense and who are really affected by it are outnumbered. If you want to get all goosebumpy from seeing or hearing a wolf go to the zoo or better yet go buy one and have it your own backyard. Oh you have kids or other pets so it wouldn't be safe hmmm now your thinking! I say lets try to actually properly manage what we have before we take on something else , the wolves,that other states with more elk and deer and wilderness area can't seem to figure out. Just my 2cents.Nwhunter

Why would the state re-introduce wolves, when they are already here? Makes no sense. If the conditions are right, they will increase and spread throughout the state, on their own. No need to spend millions of dollars on bringing back wolves. I don't think anybody wants them anyway. Now, about that gas tax...where do you expect the state to get money to maintain roads if not from a gas tax?

I agree with hairy ape why introduce them when you can go over to gmu 346 and see that they are already here.

Hey there Bri, why not save everyone a bunch of money and report what you were a witness to.

Why introduce more wolves? If they spread they might become a threat to society and then be killed off. That would be a waste of money! I don't want to encounter any wolves and I would not support introduction. I see 'em I kill 'em because people and wolves don't mix.

Matt

Driftboater, once and for all I have seen them, other's from the board have seen them. Why report something that the state already knows is there. So say what you want, start the thread's that you want (this thread is just a knock off of my gmu 346 thread) and believe what you want.
You will get no further post's from me on this stupid subject. I have read some of your other post's to people on this board and It's apparent you just like to argue with other's. So get a life and move on, wolve's are in washington and have been here for a long time. Just because you don't beleive it doesn't mean other's have not seen it. I have and that's where I stand on it.

Oh BriBri.....

Knock off thread, blah! Its a thread about where the finances will come from for re-introduction. Dont like it dont respond! as evidient from your first post you made, you had no idea or nothing to add about the funding questions I posed.

Where did I say I dont believe you? I stated you witnessed an illegal activity and IMO should report it to the authorities.

Hey I call like I see it , No PC go with crowd responce from me.

Hey thanks, I am glad you know so much about me! I'll keep your suggestion in my thoughts.

Thank God!

Hey, anyone that says there are to many cougars and bear, e-mail me at kokaneekiller@netzero.com.

Show me those bear and cougars you're always seeing... we'll set a date for the fall.. I'll bring the bow okay?

I'm having lots of troubles finding them unless I'm with Bruce, so I'll just use you guys, since you seem to know what youre doing to!

Seeya then!

Curtis

Big bad vd, I'm not sure if you understand that predators are something you don't want a lot of!! These are critters that you don't see a lot of just the evidence they leave that they are around. For instance you may not see a bear but all those dead trees in a replanted unit are mostly from bears. And cougars are rarely seen but the remains from there kills are. Sure I would love to get a cougar or bear with my bow to but I sure don't want to see there populations increased to improve my odds because they will wipe the deer and elk in short order.

Scott thanks. That post right there explained it all to me. No name callin, nothin. Thanks bro, you seriously just won me over

Curtis

Curtis,
I sure hope you dont think I was name calling you. I apploud you for having goals and if the Govenors office is one of them, wonderful! more power to ya!

Here is a post I made a few weeks ago on another board about the cougar problems we are facing in this state and what is happening to rectify them.

===========================
Wonder how much it cost to hire them?
Anyways, I am glad they do this for public safety, but look at the part where it says that the Department "Hired" them, Thats what urks me! I know you all have heard this a hundred times. But, hear it goes again!
We had a Scientific Wildlife Managment tool taken from us in 1996 by the passage of the HSUS sponsored I-655 Which banned Hounds and Baits. Now we get depradation permits issued, hire a Houndsman and do it the same way we did before 1996, but now we have to take monies away from another fund to pay for it.
Just a few years ago I heard the Department spent over a million dollars in managing the cougar problems we have encounterd since the passage. I do not have any money numbers prior to the passage but I do have some complaint numbers that are quite revealing. They tooka revenue producing managment tool away and now causes us an expendature which undoubtedly takes funding away from another fund.

From the WDFW,
1995 confirmed cougar complaints 247
1998 confirmed cougar complaints 927

I just doesnt make sense to me!

Things I have done on my end when this topic comes up around the water cooler is make statements like the above informing them of the obsurdnees that has transpired and continues to. So pass it along when you have the chance..

(Hey xxxxxx, isnt that pine creek area is your stomping grounds? I have seen some large track up above there.)


=================================
Emergency hunts result in three cougars killed
Hunts were allowed in three counties, but animals were killed in Okanogan County
John Craig
Spokesman-Review
March 22, 2003


Last week's emergency cougar hunts in Okanogan, Ferry and Stevens counties resulted in three cougars being killed, all in Okanogan County.
In addition, however, a young female cougar was killed under routine procedures last weekend in northern Stevens County. The Washington Fish and Wildlife Department issued a depredation permit for that cougar when it was spotted near a horse corral in the triangular area bounded by the Columbia and Kettle rivers and the Canadian border.

Fish and Wildlife Capt. Mike Whorton in Spokane said houndsmen hired by the department hunted "extensively" in four areas where Stevens and Ferry County commissioners said frequent sightings warranted the special hunting permits that expired March 15.

Department Director Jeff Koenings authorized two special permits each in Stevens and Ferry counties and 10 in Okanogan County after a meeting in Olympia in which county commissioners called for stronger action to protect people and property from cougars. Whorton said those permits were used for unsuccessful hound hunting in two areas near Deer Lake in Stevens County and two spots near Republic in Ferry County.

Hunters were more successful in Okanogan County. Fish and Wildlife Sgt. Jim Brown said two cougars were killed in the Methow Valley, within a few miles of the towns of Winthrop and Twisp, and one in the Salmon Creek area northwest of Okanogan.

Although the special permits expired, Brown said pre-existing depredation permits for three cougars will remain active. Those permits are for a mountain lion that has been hanging around the south edge of Oroville and for one or two lions that have been prowling ranches in the Pine Creek area, midway between Tonasket and Oroville.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Curtis,, Forgot to mention I got a 400 pounder sitting right behind me that I got a few years back, just right out of E-claw and another up on Tiger summit.

Dont wait untill the fall, I believe the season start in July/August for Bear.

Also if your into bowhunting you may wanna check out this Youth Bow camp. Heard nothing but good about it and the price is incredible.

If your interested in going, I know a few kids your age that have been going 3-4 years now, you may even know them (Greenwater) If you want I can get you in touch via email and ask them any questions.

============================
CYM Bow camp is a five day bowhunting camp for 7th to 12th graders. The camp is held in the beautiful cascade mountains near White Pass. The camp includes a four day 3D shoot, Bowhunters Ed course, advanced hunting techniques, evening rallies, team games and recreation. Classes for alumni include an overnight survival course, bow tuning, making your own calls, field dressing, animal habitats, reading sign & tracking, stalking, camouflage, shooting form, tree stand placement, making your own 3D targets, game calls and arrows. All classes are hands on activities usually outside, we also offer bow making to some students for an additional cost. Larry D. Jones has been our guest speaker for each of the camps and the youth have greatly enjoyed him.



This years camp starts Sunday June 22 at 2 PM and ends Thursday June 27th at 1 PM. Cost for entire camp is $100 if registered before May 1st, $110 after May 1st, there are a limited number of scholarships available for those who are in need. This is our seventh year for the bow camp, we have really enjoyed holding the camp and have seen at least 100 different youth attend the camp. Camp attendees range from avid bowhunters to even some anti-hunters (who come with their friends) these youth have changed their minds to being pro hunters by the end of the camp. Attendance of the camp has ranged from 30 to 60 youth, the most youth we can have is 70.



We do advertise that the camp is taught from a Christian perspective, but the Christian program is only a 20 minute devotional in the morning and a one hour program each night. The rest of the program is strictly bowhunting.



If you can assist us in any way that would be greatly appreciated.



Please feel free to contact us:



Mark & Sacha Hasenyager

Community Youth Ministries Bow Camp

PO Box 1177

Republic, WA 99166

509-775-8057

cym@rcabletv.com

=============================

Hey vodoo
Sorry man I didn't think I called you any names, but I guess you're talking about me.
You won't see cougars very often unless you know what you're looking for. You will find cougar kills if you spend anytime out in the woods of western washington. If you want to kill a cougar, you have to put in your time. It won't just fall in your lap. Best way to do it is to follow the elk herds in the snow and cut a cat track and follow it. Stalk the stalker so to speak.
Now for bears. I see a couple dozen every year. Not sure why you aren't seeing them. I don't know your hunting habits or styles so not sure what to tell ya. Nothing in life is free unless you get lucky.
Now don't take this post the wrong way. I'm not saying you don't put your time in. So don't fire back for no reason. Just trying to help.

Glow

Wasn't naming anyone, but I can appreciate what both sides want.

Just sick of hearing people saying, "you people are responsible for the destruction of this herd in GMU ___ because you did this!" instead of actually just getting out there and doing something.

I would still almost support more wolves... but I believe it just needs to have more thought put into it. It has to be possible, but I can understand why they are definitely NOT wanted around our herds.

I'll be putting in a lot more time this year... Got my license now, so I'll be hitting Tiger mountain, Eaton mountain, and a few others.

Curtis

HPB,,does the cat got your tongue? Was really looking forward to hearing about your funding scenerios for re-introduction of your furry friends?

Oh well, your silence speaks for itself!

wolves have brought yellowstone about an additional 50 million dollars in revenue due to winter trips to try and catch a glimse of one. 50 million. doesnt forks need some extra revenue? there isnt much in the way of federal grazing land on the OP. so why would we not jump at the opportunity. god put the wolves here. how in the world could they be a threat to you when they are proven to strengthen ungulate heards. wolves dont go after the same elk that hunters go after. I live with a female grey wolf with some malmut back in the genes somewhere. and she is one of the smartest creatures i have ever met. you wouldnt think that a wolf could be funny but she is a comedian sometimes. she is smarter than most roofers I know. I dont think it is right for people to keep them or take them from the wild and i am sure that many will write and say that i am a hypocrite but i adopted her from a rescue agency in florence oregon and found out that she came from a local wolf breeder nutcase in town who gave me her history. I have lived with her for 7 years and have learned that these creatures posess incredibly human like inteligence. they have a right to life and it will strengthen both our economy and our environment to have them back home in washington where they belong. they will curb the rodent coyote,bear and cougar population and strengthen our elk and dear heards. why in the world would the people of the olympic penninsula not want them there? do you know that there has never been a documented wolf attack on a human in the wild in world history! its a myth and unless you are a sheephearder grazing wild on federal land for pennies an acre that is allergic to sheepdogs- you shoud be for it too!!

ps. wolf diet consists mainly of rodent and re-introduced wolves would take a few generations to get any proficiency in stalking any ungulates. and oce they do. its the sick and weak. wolves never risk their lives trying to kill a trophy bull

Chappy....ya know, wolf hybreds are illegal in King County.

Anyway.... There was a wolf attack last summer on Vancouver Island...in the wild..

Wolves are NOT "mainly rodent" hunters. That is the domain of coyotes and specifically foxes. Wolves are a very large animal, it would take FAR too many mice, voles, etc, to fill up a wolf.

Wolves DO target a disperportionate amount of male deer and elk. They are opportunistic hunters, it is a myth that they target the sick or injured... Any animal is fair game.

Have you ever seen the movie "The Nature of Hunting". Three wolves kill a monster bull in that movie. They have more stamina and thus can go longer. So they keep pecking at him until he gets too tired and they take him down. I guess that throws that theory out chappy.

Oh yeah, Show me proof that people have spent 50 million JUST for the wolves. I'm pretty convinced that people don't go to Yellowstone just for the wolves. I'm betting a certain geyser has a little more pull than a wolf. Oh you've heard of her. Yep Old Faithful.


The lights, The lights. They're coming on.

The answer to the funding question is to tap into BBVD's allowance for a while. Sounds like just the right amount for a wolf program to me! Sorry, BBVD, just had to try and lighten this thread up a little. On a more serious note, I hope you all think this wolf business through. The cons versus the pros. Here in Oreo land we may not have a choice. I think we are going to get them even if most think its a bad idea.

Hey, Bigshark..

They are seeking nominees...

============================Oregon Department of Fish and Wildlife
Contact: Anne Pressentin Young (503) 872-5264 x5356
Internet: www.dfw.state.or.us Fax: (503) 872-5700

For Immediate Release Friday, April 25, 2003

Oregon Fish and Wildlife Commission Calls for Nominations to Wolf Advisory Committee

PORTLAND - The Oregon Fish and Wildlife Commission is currently accepting nominations from individuals and organizations to participate on an advisory committee that will recommend a Wolf Management Plan for Oregon.

The Commission will appoint 14 members to an advisory committee in June that includes the following: livestock producer, hunter, trapper, eastern Oregon county commissioner, wolf advocate, range/forest land conservationist, educator, wildlife biologist/researcher, economist, resident of rural Oregon, two at-large public representatives, public land manager, and tribal representative. In addition, a state wildlife biologist will work closely with the committee.

The Commission is the rule-making body for the Oregon Department of Fish and Wildlife. The seven-member panel meets monthly to establish policies and administrative regulations for the agency to implement.

The Commission recently approved a planning process to develop a wolf management plan. The decision to write a plan in advance of wolves establishing themselves in Oregon came after 15 public meetings, a legal analysis of the Oregon Endangered Species Act and several Commission meetings. Commissioners concluded that wolves will migrate to Oregon and the state needs to be prepared with a conservation-based plan.

Toward that end, the Commission approved earlier this month the following language for a working goal to initiate the planning effort: "The goal of this management plan is to ensure the long-term survival and conservation of gray wolves as required by Oregon law while minimizing conflicts with humans, primary land uses and other Oregon wildlife."

The goal statement will be used by the soon-to-be formed advisory committee as it begins work to assist ODFW with development of a management plan.

Organizations or individuals may submit nominations for one, some or all of the stakeholder groups. Nominations should include the following information: the individual's background, a statement about why the individual is qualified and the perspective they bring to the discussion, Oregon residency status, and their willingness to commit time to the planning process.

A nomination form and cover letter, a description of the planning process and background information about wolves in Oregon are posted to the ODFW Web site at http://www.dfw.state.or.us/ODFWhtml/InfoCntrWild/gray_wolf/wolf_main.htm .

Nominations to the committee must be post marked by May 15, 2003. Nominations may be sent to ODFW, Information and Education Division, P.O. Box 59, Portland, OR 97207. They also may be faxed to (503) 872-5700 or e-mailed to ODFW.Comments@state.or.us.

A two-person subcommittee of the Commission will review all the nominations and will present a recommended advisory group to the full Commission at the June 6 meeting in Pendleton.

###

According to a friend of mine that used to work for the Forest Service, some are already here. They found some biologists outside Cle Elum that were monitering them, apparently they had the Alpha male and female collared. This was a few years ago, so I assume there are a few more by now. If this is/was true some of that money is already being spent.