Check

 

Defiance Boats!

LURECHARGE!

THE PP OUTDOOR FORUMS

Kast Gear!

Power Pro Shimano Reels G Loomis Rods

  Willie boats! Puffballs!

 

Three Rivers Marine

 

 
Page 2 of 4 < 1 2 3 4 >
Topic Options
Rate This Topic
#822675 - 02/14/13 12:26 AM Re: 270 wsm [Re: NickD90]
SundayMoney Offline
Repeat Spawner

Registered: 07/06/04
Posts: 1086
Loc: Everett
Originally Posted By: NickD90


If you want a light and handy rifle:


http://www.kimberamerica.com/rifles/model-84l/montana



A Montana is exactly what I was looking for in a rifle. Thats why I own one. 5lbs 1oz

Top
#822676 - 02/14/13 12:34 AM Re: 270 wsm [Re: ]
redhook
Unregistered


06 is a great round as well... the one rifle of my dads is about 5 1/2 pounds and a pain in the ass to shoot after a couple shots... no pussy plates allowed...

my personal all time favorite, is the 7mm Remington Mag (.284 cal), sold my 700 a while back, and plan on even 1 upping that gun..

what are you wanting this specific caliber for? the weight? the bolt throw? the minimal gain in performance?

why considering the .270 wsm?

Top
#822683 - 02/14/13 12:49 AM Re: 270 wsm [Re: ]
Bigtrout15
Unregistered


Small enough for deer large enough for elk with the ability to still be a flat shooting accurate rifle. 06 does that prety well but looking to get another rifle with the tax return coming

Top
#822684 - 02/14/13 12:50 AM Re: 270 wsm [Re: SundayMoney]
NickD90 Offline
Shooting Instructor for hire

Registered: 10/26/10
Posts: 7260
Loc: Snohomish, WA
I was born and raised in the high country of CO and when hunting at 10,000 - every last ounce counts. The Kimber Ascent is beyond light (almost too light). The muzzle brake is removable and comes with a collar to protect the threads when not in use. Kimbers have the best, non-custom triggers on the market today. They are ridiculously crisp, break easily and have zero creep. Montana's are the same rifle only they haven't been fluted to reduce weight (5 oz difference). But you'll save a lot of money going with the Montana if 5 oz are not that important to you. FYI - TIkka T3, Weatherby Vanguards I and II's are plastic composite stocks, while Kimbers, Noslers and SAKO are a beaded Kevlar or fiber re-enforced blend. You get what you pay for. FYI - the Weatherby Vanguard II is probably the best low priced rifle on the market today. Of course, all of that changes when you move back to wood.


.280's are just flat awesome. They have way better ballistics than the .270 (regular or WSM) and they are tack drivers. In fact, .280's probably have the best all around ballistics when all factors are considered. I'm much more comfortable shooting at a bull with a .280 than I am a .270. The rounds are cheaper than the .270 WSM and selection is just about the same. Both can be harder to find than something like a 06 or .300 winny. Stick with Nosler partitions or Barnes X and anything you shoot at will drop.

If I were you, I would seriously look at either the Weatherby Vanguard II or Kimber Montana (or the Nosler) based on what you can afford in a .280 or 30-06.

Hope this help and hope you find the right gun for YOU. Let us know what you end up with and how it shoots for you. best of luck,

Edit: didn't see that you already have an 06. Get the .280!!!!


Edited by NickD90 (02/14/13 01:01 AM)
_________________________
“If the military were fighting for our freedom, they would be storming Capitol Hill”. – FleaFlickr02

Top
#822688 - 02/14/13 12:59 AM Re: 270 wsm [Re: NickD90]
Bigtrout15
Unregistered


much appreciated all of the info will help. Thanks guys

Top
#822697 - 02/14/13 01:55 AM Re: 270 wsm [Re: ]
Oregonian Offline
Three Time Spawner

Registered: 03/17/05
Posts: 1799
If the .280 has an advantage over the .270wsm, then I assume it would be the bullet selection ? Seems like comparing the .270 with the .270wsm would be apples to apples, and same with .280 vs 7wsm. I think flat shooting, and quick follow up shots were both mentioned, what about wind ?

Personally, my next big game rifle is going to be a Kimber Montana in 7wsm...even if I have to buy a different caliber and have it rebarreled. I have not held a Montana in my hands, but have read enough reviews to make the decision...........and they seem to move pretty well on the used market.

.30'06 ? I should buy one of those too, just too have it laying around.

Top
#822706 - 02/14/13 03:20 AM Re: 270 wsm [Re: Oregonian]
NickD90 Offline
Shooting Instructor for hire

Registered: 10/26/10
Posts: 7260
Loc: Snohomish, WA
The .280 rounds generally have better pricing over .270 wsm (on par with standard .270 rounds). The ballistics are also better than the .270 regular (or WSM) or the 30-06 (velocity and ft.lbs). Its an ultra, ultra flat shooter - proably the flatest there is or that I have any knowledge on. It doesn't kick like a .300, so its a very attractive middle ground between the above calibers. I took my largest bull (6x6) with a .280 Remington

Wait until you shoot a Kimber Montana, you'll never want another sub .300 rifle. I've fired the .243, .270, .280 and .300. I've never fired the Kimber Ascent which is even lighter. I've heard that the 30-06 Ascent kicks like a .300 winny which is why they incorporated the muzzle break. I am a thin guy and don't pack a lot of meat on my shoulders. The Montana .300 was fun for about 5 rounds and then I wanted to put it down. If I ever buy a .300, it will be a heavier wood stocked rifle to help eat up some the recoil. If you can't practice on a gun without getting overly flinchy, its hard to shoot it well in the field. I would not want to fire the .338 Montana. No thanks.
_________________________
“If the military were fighting for our freedom, they would be storming Capitol Hill”. – FleaFlickr02

Top
#822711 - 02/14/13 07:42 AM Re: 270 wsm [Re: NickD90]
Oregonian Offline
Three Time Spawner

Registered: 03/17/05
Posts: 1799
Pricing ? I can't imagine the price of .270 being noticably different than .280. As far as ballistics goes, the .270, .280, and .30'06 are the same case...the only difference is the diameter of the bullet. Velocity is tangible for comparison, but ft.lbs is the stuff of mermaids and tooth ferries. I think you would have to choose the most appropriate bullet for the task...from what is actually available, and then compare ballistic coeficient and velocity. Still don't see how any of the '06 cases is going to do anything to compare with the wsm case..............and the wsm operates from a short action. I am sure all the rifles we're talking about recoil a noticable amount, but I have other rifles for high volume shooting that don't kick.

I have shot some pretty heavy rifles with excellent McMillan stocks...I think wood is the the very last choice of material for a stock on a hunting rifle. There is plenty of weight to be had through barrel contour and stock design, but in the end each of us has to like our own rifle...not anybody else.

Top
#822718 - 02/14/13 09:56 AM Re: 270 wsm [Re: Oregonian]
NickD90 Offline
Shooting Instructor for hire

Registered: 10/26/10
Posts: 7260
Loc: Snohomish, WA
Some good points Oregonian. I looked up the following for round pricing:

http://www.cabelas.com/product/Winchester-Ballistic-Silvertip174-Rifle-Ammunition/739976.uts?Ntk=AllProducts&searchPath=%2Fcatalog%2Fsearch.cmd%3Fform_state%3DsearchForm%26N%3D0%26fsch%3Dtrue%26Ntk%3DAllProducts%26Ntt%3D.280%2Bammo%26WTz_l%3DHeader%253BSearch-All%2BProducts&Ntt=.280+ammo&WTz_l=Header%3BSearch-All+Products

The .270 is slightly cheaper than the .280, but neither are as expensive as the .270 wsm. Short actions are nice for follow up shots, but I try to shoot with only one shot in mind. I wonder if anyone has ever timed a long action against a short action for the difference? Maybe that would splitting hairs?

I agree that modern composite stocks are the way to go in wet and rainy Washington. Wood is fine for drier climates, like my old hunting days in Colorado. Ultimately, I care more about weight reduction for long humps at altitude. I used to have an ultra light, wood stocked .280 remington pack rifle that was just a sweet heart. Should have never let her go! For me, the only reason to own a .300 or above would be for Moose and if I ever get lucky enough to draw a tag, I'll probably just have to suck it up and get a Weatherby or RUM and live with the PAIN! smile

Love talking & learning rifles. I know a bit or two, but there are many, many others that know much more than I do. To your point, the most important thing to know if to shoot what it takes to get the job done and what you are comfortable with.
_________________________
“If the military were fighting for our freedom, they would be storming Capitol Hill”. – FleaFlickr02

Top
#822832 - 02/14/13 04:25 PM Re: 270 wsm [Re: NickD90]
j 7 Offline
Repeat Spawner

Registered: 02/09/07
Posts: 1422
Loc: Your monitor
Pricing is a complicated formula of powder capacity, powder type, availability of the brass, and projectile. The .270 and .280 are both based off the same parent brass of the 06. Lots of 06 being made so lower cost .270 and .280 brass (just a matter of neck size). 270 and 280 have approximately the powder capacity and bullets a

270 wsm brass is made from the parent of .404 Jeffery and is a rather rare brass so the cost is more because its rarity and its bigger so there's more brass to pay for. 270 wsm has more powder capacity so more powder to pay for.

Projectile for either 27 or 28 are essentially the same as far as materials of copper and lead. Small price differences for similar grain pills.

As far as killin? Thats even a more complicated formula of velocity, bullet diameter, and bullet weight, and bullet construction. Bullet weight and diameter will be fixed and velocity depends on range. Some folks like to use ft-lbs as a gauge but it tells nothing about penetration. Sectional density is a better indicator of penetration as it considers both the bullet diameter and the weight. The theory is a higher sectional density at a given velocity will penetrate further. So for comparison lets assume the same bullet construction is used. At 140 grains the .27 caliber has a higher sectional density than the .28. At 150 grains the .27 is still more but the .28 is getting closer. But 140 and 150 are the high end of .27 caliber weights and the lower end of .28. Each of theses weights in the respective caliber travel about the same velocity (around 2900 fps). So the 270 with its heaviest bullets will out perform the 280 with its lightest bullets. But the 280 can handle bullets of more mass and much higher sectional density. So the 280 can take on bigger critters that have thicker chest cavity with its heavier bullets.

As you creep up the caliber chart diameter it becomes more an issue of pure mass than anything and sectional density dosent matter. For example a sectional density of a 175 grain .28 caliber and 450 grain .458 caliber are approximately the same. But the .28 traveling 500 fps more than the .458 will not penetrate as far. The 450 grains of projectile dominates at this point.
_________________________
For some of us, a bad day of fishing is a bad day at work.

j7 2012

Top
#822842 - 02/14/13 04:48 PM Re: 270 wsm [Re: ]
Dogfish Offline
Poodle Smolt

Registered: 05/03/01
Posts: 10979
Loc: McCleary, WA
Originally Posted By: Redd_Daetona
DF,

Are you shooting the 110 TTSX bullets in the .270 Win, or the .270 WSM for deer?

Redd


6.8 SPC. A short .277 caliber round designed to fit into AR15's. Works just fine for deer with the 85's on up to the 150 PSP's that I have. Roughly the same power factor as a .30-30, but much better trajectory and bullet choices. A little undergunned for elk, but it would do the job.

I have a .280. Works fine, and I consider it equal to my '06 in the same firearm, both Remington 740's. Ammo cost doesn't really bother me too much, as I pretty much reload for everything I have. I need a few dies, but for the most part, I'm set.



_________________________
"Give me the anger, fish! Give me the anger!"

They call me POODLE SMOLT!

The Discover Pass is brought to you by your friends at the CCA.

Top
#822854 - 02/14/13 05:28 PM Re: 270 wsm [Re: ]
Dogfish Offline
Poodle Smolt

Registered: 05/03/01
Posts: 10979
Loc: McCleary, WA
You can load them upwards of 2700fps, as long as you watch for flat primers and swipes on the cases.

I have 1,000 of the Remington 130gr SP's and 2,000 of the Remington 115gr FMJ's. Our rifle likes them both.
_________________________
"Give me the anger, fish! Give me the anger!"

They call me POODLE SMOLT!

The Discover Pass is brought to you by your friends at the CCA.

Top
#822855 - 02/14/13 05:29 PM Re: 270 wsm [Re: Dogfish]
NickD90 Offline
Shooting Instructor for hire

Registered: 10/26/10
Posts: 7260
Loc: Snohomish, WA
J7 said what I couldn't. Thanks man...
_________________________
“If the military were fighting for our freedom, they would be storming Capitol Hill”. – FleaFlickr02

Top
#822901 - 02/14/13 08:03 PM Re: 270 wsm [Re: NickD90]
Oregonian Offline
Three Time Spawner

Registered: 03/17/05
Posts: 1799
Originally Posted By: NickD90
J7 said what I couldn't. Thanks man...



No, he didn't say anything, and I'm being generous. The construction of the projectile is paramount to it's downrange performance, and he is talking ticks and tacks without even addressing the starting line. I think I will bow out and let you gentlemen do as you please.


p.s. The part about the follow up shot (s), that was cracking me up still, from when I read it the first time...that's why I mentioned that you guys had already covered it. Who dreams that stuff up anyway ?


Edited by Oregonian (02/14/13 08:19 PM)
Edit Reason: follow up shot !

Top
#822935 - 02/14/13 10:23 PM Re: 270 wsm [Re: Oregonian]
NickD90 Offline
Shooting Instructor for hire

Registered: 10/26/10
Posts: 7260
Loc: Snohomish, WA
OK Oregonian. Before you leave - may I ask, besides reduced rifle weight, which we have already covered and length of bolt throw (which affects "time" to cycle) - just what are the benefits of a short action specifically? If not for "speed" of follow up shots? Please educate us. Thanks,
_________________________
“If the military were fighting for our freedom, they would be storming Capitol Hill”. – FleaFlickr02

Top
#822942 - 02/14/13 10:55 PM Re: 270 wsm [Re: NickD90]
redhook
Unregistered


follow up shots should be non existant when hunting large animals... period... that means bolt throw, and the .01 seconds you gain by the shorter action mean absolutely nothing...

penetration is a big thing when it comes to large game, but you dont want "blow through", with minimal damage... so you want a bullet that retains its mass throughout penetration, causing the MOST DAMAGE without blowing the meat apart, personally i like the Barnes TSX bullets, ive only used them on animals from a 7mm Mag, but they were very well performing... they were used on Coyotes tho, so the damage was massive regardless... alot of friends of mine tho run them for elk and deer... and really like them...

regarding WSM rifles.. how much weight do you really think your "losing" by getting that rifle vs a standard cartridge rifle? were talkin a pound tops.. MAYBE 2 with the newer rifles out today... most long range hunting guns have scopes on them, so you are adding weight anyways... then theres also barrels, some guys run bull barrels, some guys run the lighter cow barrels (copyright B.S.).... bull barrels are heavier obsiously...

the only reason WSM's dont "kick as much" and are light, is because of the round itself... its a lower performance round basically but with "magnum" capabilities..... at the muzzle....

the bullets are lighter, they are gonna fly faster... for a minute... they also drop off on the FTLBS quicker than heavier bullets that are retaining their speed evenly, not losing it...

fast and light might beat slow and heavy to a certian point... but when you get fast and just right, you have rounds like the 6.5-284 Norma or the .300 Hulk... when you start fiddle fartin around on both lines of fast and slow and the other of those 2, you start getting rounds like the 7mm Mag, .300 Mag, ect ect ect...

weight reduction also increases recoil to an extent.. the WSM's dont punch as much because the bullet is lighter, even tho its faster its lighter, therefore less blow back recoil from the shots... lighter loses momentum at some point...

you want light, fast and accurate for target shooting... for killing, you want accurate, and knock down power... which can only be acheived by speed, and weight... but the speed must be maintainable...

if you want a new rifle with your money, check out a Remington 700 in 7mm Rem Mag... BDL, ADL, SPS, PSS, Sendero, ect ect ect, you wont be dissapointed... i would be comfortable with that rifle in that caliber over any other on the planet...

these are all my opinions, take them with a splash of pickle juice...

Top
#822950 - 02/15/13 12:08 AM Re: 270 wsm [Re: Oregonian]
j 7 Offline
Repeat Spawner

Registered: 02/09/07
Posts: 1422
Loc: Your monitor
Originally Posted By: Oregonian
Originally Posted By: NickD90
J7 said what I couldn't. Thanks man...



No, he didn't say anything, and I'm being generous.


Oh yeah! Well its better than Redhook.



Originally Posted By: Oregonian
I think I will bow out before I out myself as a closet core lokt fan


I knew it all along
_________________________
For some of us, a bad day of fishing is a bad day at work.

j7 2012

Top
#822952 - 02/15/13 12:20 AM Re: 270 wsm [Re: ]
Oregonian Offline
Three Time Spawner

Registered: 03/17/05
Posts: 1799
Originally Posted By: redhook
follow up shots should be non existant when hunting large animals... period... that means bolt throw, and the .01 seconds you gain by the shorter action mean absolutely nothing...

penetration is a big thing when it comes to large game, but you dont want "blow through", with minimal damage... so you want a bullet that retains its mass throughout penetration, causing the MOST DAMAGE without blowing the meat apart, personally i like the Barnes TSX bullets, ive only used them on animals from a 7mm Mag, but they were very well performing... they were used on Coyotes tho, so the damage was massive regardless... alot of friends of mine tho run them for elk and deer... and really like them...

regarding WSM rifles.. how much weight do you really think your "losing" by getting that rifle vs a standard cartridge rifle? were talkin a pound tops.. MAYBE 2 with the newer rifles out today... most long range hunting guns have scopes on them, so you are adding weight anyways... then theres also barrels, some guys run bull barrels, some guys run the lighter cow barrels (copyright B.S.).... bull barrels are heavier obsiously...

the only reason WSM's dont "kick as much" and are light, is because of the round itself... its a lower performance round basically but with "magnum" capabilities..... at the muzzle....

the bullets are lighter, they are gonna fly faster... for a minute... they also drop off on the FTLBS quicker than heavier bullets that are retaining their speed evenly, not losing it...

fast and light might beat slow and heavy to a certian point... but when you get fast and just right, you have rounds like the 6.5-284 Norma or the .300 Hulk... when you start fiddle fartin around on both lines of fast and slow and the other of those 2, you start getting rounds like the 7mm Mag, .300 Mag, ect ect ect...

weight reduction also increases recoil to an extent.. the WSM's dont punch as much because the bullet is lighter, even tho its faster its lighter, therefore less blow back recoil from the shots... lighter loses momentum at some point...

you want light, fast and accurate for target shooting... for killing, you want accurate, and knock down power... which can only be acheived by speed, and weight... but the speed must be maintainable...

if you want a new rifle with your money, check out a Remington 700 in 7mm Rem Mag... BDL, ADL, SPS, PSS, Sendero, ect ect ect, you wont be dissapointed... i would be comfortable with that rifle in that caliber over any other on the planet...

these are all my opinions, take them with a splash of pickle juice...




I quoted this, so that I would be sure to get a few cracks at digesting all of it...in case there was a fire or somethin'. Other than that, I'm pretty sure I have nothing further to contribute !

Top
#822956 - 02/15/13 12:30 AM Re: 270 wsm [Re: Oregonian]
RowVsWade Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 11/08/06
Posts: 3405
Loc: Island Time
I'm writing this shi.t down so slow down guys....
_________________________
"...the pool hall I loved as a kid is now a 7-11..."

If you don't like our prices bring your wife down and we'll dicker.

Top
#822957 - 02/15/13 12:32 AM Re: 270 wsm [Re: RowVsWade]
Oregonian Offline
Three Time Spawner

Registered: 03/17/05
Posts: 1799
Cheers !

Top
Page 2 of 4 < 1 2 3 4 >

Moderator:  Bob, Jerry Garcia, ReiterRat, Sky-Guy 
Search

Site Links
Home
Our Washington Fishing
Our Alaska Fishing
Reports
Rates
Contact Us
About Us
Recipes
Photos / Videos
Visit us on Facebook
Today's Birthdays
birdhunter111, metalman, solducsinker
Recent Gallery Pix
hatchery steelhead
Hatchery Releases into the Pacific and Harvest
Who's Online
2 registered (chrome/22, stonefish), 946 Guests and 2 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Newest Members
John Boob, Lawrence, I'm Still RichG, feyt, Freezeout
11498 Registered Users
Top Posters
Todd 28169
Dan S. 17149
Sol Duc 16138
The Moderator 14486
Salmo g. 13519
eyeFISH 12766
STRIKE ZONE 12107
Dogfish 10979
ParaLeaks 10513
Jerry Garcia 9160
Forum Stats
11498 Members
16 Forums
63770 Topics
645260 Posts

Max Online: 3001 @ 01/28/20 02:48 PM

Join the PP forums.

It's quick, easy, and always free!

Working for the fish and our future fishing opportunities:

The Wild Steelhead Coalition

The Photo & Video Gallery. Nearly 1200 images from our fishing trips! Tips, techniques, live weight calculator & more in the Fishing Resource Center. The time is now to get prime dates for 2018 Olympic Peninsula Winter Steelhead , don't miss out!.

| HOME | ALASKA FISHING | WASHINGTON FISHING | RIVER REPORTS | FORUMS | FISHING RESOURCE CENTER | CHARTER RATES | CONTACT US | WHAT ABOUT BOB? | PHOTO & VIDEO GALLERY | LEARN ABOUT THE FISH | RECIPES | SITE HELP & FAQ |