2 Elwha Dams coming down, without fish ladders........that is good. Please no more dams, or if there is a dam built, fish ladders need to be a automatic requirement.

Wynoochee, built in 1973, no fish ladder.......My concern is "all the talk about a dam on the upper Chehalis", lot's of lip service about fish but haven't seen anything on a fish ladder. I can see the Chehalis community, pro Dam, cause they built in the flood plain. If not done correctly......then not done at all!!!!

MPM,

No. CC steelhead have been stocked in the Elwha for over 30 years, so no plan to drop them was included in the restoration plan. The initial lawsuit appears to be soley responsible for the Tribe's decision. However, that isn't the lawsuit that was just dismissed. The amended suit was dismissed. It was the amended suit that wanted no hatchery use at all during restoration. While that is one possible alternative, it isn't the alternative in the restoration plan, and the defendants aren't keen on allowing the extant populations to become extinct and wait for however long it takes for new fish to stray into and colonize the Elwha basin. Neither choice is inherently superior to the other, but one begins right away, and they other may take many decades. People usually tend to think in human time frames.

Sg

yeah that scares the crap outta me too, both the implications and results and the obvious brain-power of those involved and supporting it!

I had heard 2 plans that it/they will be low head dams(flood control) in the valley that will have a passage OR they will be way further up the system, like up above highest creek into what they deem as the "last fish" extent of the system and will not have passage...plausible but not needed or warranted.

lets NOT forget WHY 1-5 and the biosfort/SF valley flooded the way it did...reference "stillman creek" in the News Tribune for back then and look at the slash logging that was done right before the storm!! ever wonder why MOST of those timbers down in the farmers field had nice flat ends to them??

Not only do we not want a flood control dam on the upper Chehalis, it wouldn't be economically feasible without an exemption to current federal law. Even a multi-purpose dam isn't economically feasible, so the only way this project can happen is if politicians can figure out how to do it using OPM (other people's money) with a hugely reduced local cost share.

Drifter,

Fish ladders don't work at flood control dams or any high head dams with variable pool elevations. A flood control dam on the Chehalis wouldn't be a low head dam because it wouldn't have significant flood water storage if it were.

Sg

They did atempt a fish ladder on the lower dam but failed its olny half the size of the upper dam, where nothing would have been possible for a ladder. This is the tallest dam to ever be deconstructed anywhere at 214ft tall. if you have ever seen it and looked down into the waterfall its spooky.

OTS I have wondered why there has been no discussion about using a true broodstock program where natural selection has occurred as you have mentioned. Also, if RH is not interested in your offer I would gladly become the new steward of your biology books.

It seems to me that the entire Elwah restoration in regards to fish is a front to create another meathole, snagging, flossery with little regard to the native species of the river. If this is the case, then the State, Tribe and Feds need to come clean and say they don't care about the native fish and this is simply about harvestable numbers.

If the true intent is to restore the rivers native populations and potentially create a worldclass fishery, why not take the time to do it right? We most likely will never see the monster Kings of the past, but the steelhead genetics are still there. All those rainbows above the dams have been fairly unmolested for a hundred years. Additionally large native steelhead have already made it to the upper tribs on their own. If I am incorrect in my assumptions please enlighten me.

A key word in the article is "appeal"

After the eruption of Mt St Helens and the decimation of the Toutle River wild steelhead made an amazing recovery, far faster than the experts thought. The state had a real chance to study wild steelhead recovery, instead they introduced hatchery turds, almost like they couldn't have the wild fish recover on their own without mans help.

Good point about the Toutle, JG, but I'm pretty sure they didn't plant hatchery turds to speed recovery of the wild fish population. My guess is that harvestable numbers of fish, without the expensive wait time, is what they were after, much like the situation that is unfolding on the Elwha today. I think we all need to accept the situation for what it is and realize that hatcheries are here to stay. As long as the world worships at the altar of the Almighty Dollar, no chance to make money will be foregone for the sake of anything else.

Furthermore, sad as it is, I don't think the general population cares about a future for wild fish enough to accept the consequences of the actions necessary to meaningfully recover them. To most people, a fish is a fish, and it represents little more than food on their plate or money in their pocket.

Like most fisherfolk, I was excited to learn about the decision to remove the dams from the Elwha (I still am, but for more general reasons). All indications were that this was to be the opportunity to meaningfully research the potential for wild steelhead recovery we had all been waiting for. Then, it came out that the Tribes were going to continue planting Chambers Creek fish to keep their fisheries going throughout the "moratorium." My extreme distaste for that development was eased somewhat when I learned about the joint lawsuit, but I didn't have much hope that it would accomplish removal of hatcheries from the equation. Frankly, assuming the new hatchery isn't operated differently from the status quo, I don 't see how it makes much difference what stock is used.

There is a ray of hope hidden in this late development in that the new hatchery is located in an area that should allow for terminal harvest of the hatchery fish while they are mostly still in ocean-fresh condition. I have thought for a while that this would be the best scenario for hatcheries co-existing with wild stocks, since, in theory, there might be a way to effectively remove the hatchery fish before they get far enough upstream to compete for spawning opportunities with their wild counterparts. Of course, that glimmer of hope was dimmed considerably by the concession that will allow the Tribes to start harvesting wild fish if and when the population can support it. The way I see it, while the removal of the dams will likely improve steelhead and salmon fishing throughout the system, it won't result in any real benefit to the wild fish. I hope I'm wrong, but I think most would agree this is much less than what we had all hoped for.