#842448 - 06/06/13 04:58 PM
Re: Good article on the proposed Sky dam.
[Re: Jerry Garcia]
|
Three Time Spawner
Registered: 09/07/05
Posts: 1867
Loc: Spokane WA
|
Thank you for posting it, I will be there.
|
Top
|
|
|
|
#842455 - 06/06/13 06:17 PM
Re: Good article on the proposed Sky dam.
[Re: ondarvr]
|
River Nutrients
Registered: 03/08/99
Posts: 13660
|
I hate to seem the apologist for hydropower, but I don't see society, including fishermen, scaling back their energy consumption, or the regional human population declining.
That said, I took a look at the first 3 claims made against the project:
1..Extensive destruction of protected salmon and trout habitat would hurt fish populations.
How would this alleged destruction occur? The area to be disturbed is just above the falls, and contains no spawning habitat and extremely little juvenile rearing habitat. Fish don't spawn and rear in rapids and waterfalls.
2 Reduced instream flows would be dangerously low to salmon and steelhead migrating downstream.
Again, how so? The fish need enough water to migrate downstream at this point on the river, not for spawning or rearing. A minimum year around instream flow will be required for this purpose, and it may be higher for aesthetic reasons, or for recreation if kayakers want to float over the falls.
3. Generation turbines and tailrace would destroy salmon spawning habitat.
Salmon and steelhead don't spawn in the location where the tailrace would be located. If the project is developed, the PUD will be required to ensure that the tailrace does not interfere with fish locating the fish ladder entrance.
It seems like the opposition cannot make a point without exaggerating or outright falsifying the potential project impacts. That's pretty weak IMO. If a hydro project were being built where anadromous fish occur, Sunset Falls is about as close to a benign location as one could find. I think the opponents are trying very hard to say they oppose the project based on reasons of aesthetics (not that much will actually be visible) and NIMBY.
Sg
|
Top
|
|
|
|
#842493 - 06/06/13 09:14 PM
Re: Good article on the proposed Sky dam.
[Re: Salmo g.]
|
Spawner
Registered: 03/07/12
Posts: 781
|
I for one don't want to be at the beckon of a river flow controlled by a dam and I don't know if it's true or not but i've heard Steelhead have gone up that. This is just the start of things. After the dam is put in they'll be saying "powers cheap move up here", then "lets make a thousand acre farm in the corner over there, we'll get a permit to withdraw water from the dam" then "we're gonna flush all the water for two weeks before running the South fork dry for irrigation purposes". There's no need for it now and there never will be.
_________________________
Why build in the flood plain?
|
Top
|
|
|
|
#842496 - 06/06/13 09:33 PM
Re: Good article on the proposed Sky dam.
[Re: Salman]
|
Three Time Spawner
Registered: 09/07/05
Posts: 1867
Loc: Spokane WA
|
My reason for being there is to find out more details.
From what I know now, I don't see it doing much harm, but I don't see it generating much electricity either, at least not enough to help much.
So my question is why do they think it's a good idea.
|
Top
|
|
|
|
#842506 - 06/06/13 10:20 PM
Re: Good article on the proposed Sky dam.
[Re: ondarvr]
|
River Nutrients
Registered: 11/21/07
Posts: 7827
Loc: Olema,California,Planet Earth
|
It is not a dam in the sense of Columbia or Cowlitz dams. It is a setup quite like Snoqualmie Falls. When generating power the water goes in the pipe at the top of the falls and comes out at the bottom. When not generating, it all goes over the falls.
Like Salmo suggested, if you want electricity this is one of the more fish friendly ways to do it.
As long as people keep moving here, or having kids, the demand for electricity will rise. There is no method of generation currently in place that does not have some negative environmental impact.
|
Top
|
|
|
|
#842724 - 06/07/13 10:53 PM
Re: Good article on the proposed Sky dam.
[Re: Carcassman]
|
Spawner
Registered: 03/07/12
Posts: 781
|
It is not a dam in the sense of Columbia or Cowlitz dams. It is a setup quite like Snoqualmie Falls. When generating power the water goes in the pipe at the top of the falls and comes out at the bottom. When not generating, it all goes over the falls.
Like Salmo suggested, if you want electricity this is one of the more fish friendly ways to do it.
As long as people keep moving here, or having kids, the demand for electricity will rise. There is no method of generation currently in place that does not have some negative environmental impact. I don't think it's like Snoqualmie Falls at all, I think it is going to be a dam about 10 feet tall that actually backs up and makes a lake all the while filling up with crap like the Elwha did.
_________________________
Why build in the flood plain?
|
Top
|
|
|
|
#842760 - 06/08/13 11:39 AM
Re: Good article on the proposed Sky dam.
[Re: Salman]
|
River Nutrients
Registered: 11/21/07
Posts: 7827
Loc: Olema,California,Planet Earth
|
Snoqualmie has a small diversion dam
|
Top
|
|
|
|
#842866 - 06/09/13 09:12 PM
Re: Good article on the proposed Sky dam.
[Re: Jerry Garcia]
|
Spawner
Registered: 03/07/12
Posts: 781
|
Great article, where'd it come from?
_________________________
Why build in the flood plain?
|
Top
|
|
|
|
#843303 - 06/11/13 08:08 PM
Re: Good article on the proposed Sky dam.
[Re: Salman]
|
Returning Adult
Registered: 03/16/00
Posts: 323
Loc: snohomish, wa
|
Jerry, good points. I vote no. We don't need anymore government money holes. I think Obama has proved that case. And PUD still wants to dump money into the Tidal power idea.
_________________________
Where is the wise man? Where is the scholar? Where is the philosopher of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of the world?
|
Top
|
|
|
|
#843600 - 06/13/13 02:12 AM
Re: Good article on the proposed Sky dam.
[Re: GBL]
|
Three Time Spawner
Registered: 09/07/05
Posts: 1867
Loc: Spokane WA
|
I attended both the tour of the proposed sites and the meeting in Index.
I wasn't exactly sure how I felt about project until I saw the sites and listened to the plan, or to be more precise, their lack of planning.
This entire thing seems to be a way to sell power to California.....at any cost. This dam will only supply power during times when there is a surplus of power in WA, late fall and spring, the flows won't typically be high enough in the summer or winter.
While on the tour there were several conversations with PUD that included questions they had no answers for, as in most questions. The answer was frequently, "well we have several options and nothing has been decided yet", or “further studies will be needed". This included the amount of water left flowing in the main river, makeup of the rock they plan to tunnel through, whether the harmonic vibration from the water running through the 19' diameter tunnel will be heard or felt by the home owners near it (it runs directly under some people’s property), whether the vibration will weaken the surrounding rock (it’s a very brittle type of granite), will the rock release heavy metals that can contaminate the river downstream when new surfaces are exposed as it has in other tunnel projects, how will it affect fish and other wildlife, etc.
The first question asked at the meeting was whether a cost analysis had been done and would this project at least break even. They had no answer because they didn’t have that information. This answer was right in line with the answers given during the tour. The opponents that spoke did a very job of pointing out how bad of an idea this is, and how it goes against state law (minor issue).
There was more, but it’s getting late.
|
Top
|
|
|
|
#843616 - 06/13/13 10:35 AM
Re: Good article on the proposed Sky dam.
[Re: Jerry Garcia]
|
Three Time Spawner
Registered: 09/07/05
Posts: 1867
Loc: Spokane WA
|
I met Dave on the tour and he is going to get me some signs to put on my property.
|
Top
|
|
|
|
#845407 - 06/26/13 11:29 AM
Re: Good article on the proposed Sky dam.
[Re: Jerry Garcia]
|
River Nutrients
Registered: 11/25/01
Posts: 2834
Loc: Marysville
|
Understand the argument that folks don't want the alterations to the flows so that power can be generation. Keeping natural flows if you will.
Does that same concern/desire extend to the artificial passing of anadromous fish above the falls (all three). How does one argue that artificially passing anadromous fish above falls is OK but generating power is not? Seems to me it follows that keeping flows natural quickly leads one to the position that returning the fishing populations to the natural state of resident trout only (stop the truck and haul) quickly follows.
The trap and haul facility at Sunset falls is now more than 50 years old and has reached/is reaching the end of its practical life and is in need of serious upgrades. The power generation proposals I have seen include those trap and haul updates as part of the project.
Curt
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
11505 Members
17 Forums
73053 Topics
826535 Posts
Max Online: 3937 @ 07/19/24 03:28 AM
|
|
|