#890093 - 03/27/14 12:50 AM
Rethink bait bans?
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River Nutrients
Registered: 11/21/07
Posts: 7439
Loc: Olema,California,Planet Earth
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In Northwest Science, Vol 88 #1 winter 2014
Hooking Mortality and Landing Success using Baited Circle Hooks Compared to Conventional Hook Types for Stream-dwelling Trout by High and Meyer.
The authors looked at the 69-day survival of Idaho cutthroat caught on flies, treble-hooked spinners, J-hooks/baited and circle hooks/baited. All hooks were barbed. The flies had 4 % mortality, the circles 7%, the j's 25% and the spinners 29%. It appears that bait might be an option for stream trout fishing if circle hooks are used. Apparently this result corroborated (with wild fish) studies done on hatchery rainbow.
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#890101 - 03/27/14 05:13 AM
Re: Rethink bait bans?
[Re: Salmo g.]
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Ornamental Rice Bowl
Registered: 11/24/03
Posts: 12606
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I'd put my baited hangback amputee rig against a fly any day. It would easily meet or exceed the survival rate with std flies.
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"Let every angler who loves to fish think what it would mean to him to find the fish were gone." (Zane Grey) "If you don't kill them, they will spawn." (Carcassman) The Keen Eye MDLong Live the Kings!
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#890104 - 03/27/14 10:41 AM
Re: Rethink bait bans?
[Re: eyeFISH]
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River Nutrients
Registered: 11/21/07
Posts: 7439
Loc: Olema,California,Planet Earth
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Young kids would bait-fish
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#890107 - 03/27/14 11:19 AM
Re: Rethink bait bans?
[Re: Carcassman]
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Spawner
Registered: 11/05/05
Posts: 848
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And more than likely build a life-long reliance on using bait.
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#890108 - 03/27/14 11:30 AM
Re: Rethink bait bans?
[Re: What]
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River Nutrients
Registered: 11/21/07
Posts: 7439
Loc: Olema,California,Planet Earth
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And so some little kid (5-10 years old) is going to be able to handle flies or spinners well enough to catch stream trout? I sure wasn't that handy in those days.
I started out with bait fishing and managed to outgrow it. I suspect that is how most anglers started.
And what is the problem, IF bait fishing can be reasonably conservative in mortality (note it was about 1/4 of a spinner), that some areas allow bait on circle hooks? Again, IF the resource can take the mortality.
Even Yellowstone allows bait fishing. With circles you still allow bait but institute C&R which would teach the kids that every fish does not need to be killed.
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#890112 - 03/27/14 11:54 AM
Re: Rethink bait bans?
[Re: Carcassman]
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River Nutrients
Registered: 03/08/99
Posts: 3426
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And what is the problem, IF bait fishing can be reasonably conservative in mortality (note it was about 1/4 of a spinner), that some areas allow bait on circle hooks? Again, IF the resource can take the mortality. Exactly. I would like to have seen the study compared against the same 4 rig types but with barbless hooks as well.
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#890117 - 03/27/14 12:52 PM
Re: Rethink bait bans?
[Re: Eric]
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Smolt
Registered: 12/15/13
Posts: 70
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just say no to bait. it's a crutch of epic proportions.
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#890124 - 03/27/14 01:20 PM
Re: Rethink bait bans?
[Re: STRIKE ZONE]
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Returning Adult
Registered: 02/24/11
Posts: 255
Loc: whale pass
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what 5 to 10 year old is going to know what the hell a circle hook is? or have the credit card available to order them online?
its still very near impossible to find a set of pre-tied barbless salmon mooching hooks.
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#890126 - 03/27/14 01:35 PM
Re: Rethink bait bans?
[Re: cncfish]
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No Stars for You!
Registered: 11/08/06
Posts: 2261
Loc: T-Town
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Bait is for children when fishing trout. Why would you want to fish with anything other than a fly?
Streamer
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#890130 - 03/27/14 01:52 PM
Re: Rethink bait bans?
[Re: Streamer]
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River Nutrients
Registered: 11/21/07
Posts: 7439
Loc: Olema,California,Planet Earth
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And is trout fishing to be reserved for adults fishing flies? How will you bring in new anglers?
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#890133 - 03/27/14 02:18 PM
Re: Rethink bait bans?
[Re: ]
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River Nutrients
Registered: 11/21/07
Posts: 7439
Loc: Olema,California,Planet Earth
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OK. Must be a recent change. But, they do still allow it. And the circle hook study was using worms. And in answer to the earlier question on how would kids buy the hooks? Parents would be a start.
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#890135 - 03/27/14 02:54 PM
Re: Rethink bait bans?
[Re: ]
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Poodle Smolt
Registered: 05/03/01
Posts: 10878
Loc: McCleary, WA
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The reactions here remind me of the one time I was fishing Pass Lake in my float tube. Dad takes son down to the water, who starts casting a Snoopy rod, a real Snoopy rod, mind you, with a practice casting plug. No hook. Dad and young kid are berated by two flyfishermen to the point the kid is in tears.
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They call me POODLE SMOLT!
The Discover Pass is brought to you by your friends at the CCA.
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#890139 - 03/27/14 03:28 PM
Re: Rethink bait bans?
[Re: swingfisher]
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Spawner
Registered: 10/26/02
Posts: 908
Loc: Idaho
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just say no to bait. it's a crutch of epic proportions. Just say no to ascots, you end up looking like a fag..
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Facts don't care about your feelings..
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#890140 - 03/27/14 03:34 PM
Re: Rethink bait bans?
[Re: ]
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The Chosen One
Registered: 02/09/00
Posts: 13941
Loc: Tuleville
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But it doeant remind me of this thread at all. Doeant? What's the English equivalent of that word? Sorry, I don't speak Quillbilly. I am partially fluent in Skytuckey as well as Island Speak. Sometimes you can combine the two: "Doooood. Where's my meth?"
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Tule King Paker
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#890146 - 03/27/14 03:44 PM
Re: Rethink bait bans?
[Re: Dogfish]
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River Nutrients
Registered: 10/28/09
Posts: 3310
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No problem here with guys/gals/kids fishing bait for hatchery trout in any location, unless that same location has a marginal population of wild trout in the mix or is a designed CnR fishery (Rocky Ford or Cady Lake come to mind). After all, most hatchery fish are produced with killing in mind, so what's the difference? I only know of a handful of trout fisheries that don't allow bait, and I think in those cases, even with the statistics presented here, it's an appropriate restriction.
As has been stated, allowing a specific type of hook to be fished with bait seems like a slippery slope. I absolutely agree that bait has it's place, especially with young kids. I know I was 10 before I had the patience necessary to cast a fly rod....
Not surprised to see that spinners with trebles were the number one killer. Three hooks triples the odds of hooking fish in a mortal location, and the barbs make removing multiple hooks from small mouths extremely difficult. Fun way to catch any fish in my opinion, but single, barbless hooks are my rule.
On a somewhat related note, I'd like everyone who thinks the mortality associated with CnR steelhead or salmon fisheries exceeds 5% should see these statistics. Hatchery trout just have to be far more susceptible to hooking mortality than adult salmon and steelhead (in freshwater, anyway), based on their diminutive size alone. Look at the way most people have to handle a small trout to remove a barbed hook. In order to get any leverage, they have to squeeze the fish half to death, and the pressure pushing the barb up or down through the mouth puts potentially deadly torque on the fish's spine and jaws. Even with all that, the single hooks produced 7% mortality or less. And people want us to believe hooking mortality (with mostly barbless hooks, mind you) is as high as 40%. RIGHT....
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#890148 - 03/27/14 03:48 PM
Re: Rethink bait bans?
[Re: eyeFISH]
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River Nutrients
Registered: 03/08/99
Posts: 13394
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I'd put my baited hangback amputee rig against a fly any day. It would easily meet or exceed the survival rate with std flies. Misses the point of the question, why would someone fish bait for trout. Carcassman provided a qualifying answer regarding kids, and I'd allow that for stillwaters stocked with hatchery trout or for panfish. Otherwise it's probably my ascot arrogance that leaves me unable to fathom why an able bodied adult would recreationally fish for trout with bait when there's a world of more interesting and stimulating alternatives.
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