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#919419 - 01/19/15 05:30 PM Im done.......Just not like it use to be..........
superfly Offline
The Renegade White Man

Registered: 02/16/00
Posts: 2424
Loc: The Coast or the Keys !!!
I have been doing alot of thinking and alot of talking with people that I know well and trust and am happy to call friends above all else and I am pretty sure that I have came to the conclusion that after april 15th 0f 2015 I am going to call it quits on this whole guiding thing...... I will say this that over the years I have met some outstanding people, Been in some crazy situations, had a few knock down drag out brawls.......But most of all caught a shitload of fish with a ton of great clients that most of which have become much better friends over the years then anything else......some of you may wonder why I am doing this at age 50 ? well I will tell you why, I am just pretty much disgusted at what this industry has become. Its a shell of its former self......when you book a trip now with someone off of facebook or craigslist or groupon or what have you you have no idea what your going to get. You might get a young dude with a really cool looking boat and lots of stickers on it and his lifted truck yet he has only been rowing a driftboat for a year or two and most of his fishing knowledge comes from youtube or other internet fishing sites. He did not grow up walking the stream banks as I and many other guides my age did and most of these youngsters are not proficient and or safe in rowing there boat down the river with customers in it...................yet since they spend the money on advertising, spend countless hours on facebook and the internet and take hundreds of hours of video they will get more of the unsuspecting customers then the guys of my era.....and yet at the end of there trip they will wonder what happened and why...I have got alot of my best new customers from these types but at the end of the day I no longer want to be apart of it or associated with it until this state can come up with some kind of competency test or internship or apprenticeship program...Do I blame the young guides ? No how can you, there just doing what the state allows them to do. You have to blame the state and its lack of leadership or thinking in this arena.........So I will say this in closing, its been alot of fun, alot of hard work and I don't think it was supposed to end this way but at this point I am just done !
So if you want to come have some serious fun and catch a few fish hit me up and sign up because April 15th will come faster then you think............Peace Fly....
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#919423 - 01/19/15 05:45 PM Re: Im done.......Just not like it use to be.......... [Re: superfly]
fp Offline
Old Duffer

Registered: 03/15/99
Posts: 2967
Loc: Hoquiam,WA.USA
Good luck in whatever you end up doing.

fp

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#919425 - 01/19/15 05:50 PM Re: Im done.......Just not like it use to be.......... [Re: superfly]
TanTastic84 Offline
Juvenile at Sea

Registered: 10/21/11
Posts: 182
Loc: Seattle, WA
Ok.

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#919428 - 01/19/15 05:57 PM Re: Im done.......Just not like it use to be.......... [Re: superfly]
superfly Offline
The Renegade White Man

Registered: 02/16/00
Posts: 2424
Loc: The Coast or the Keys !!!
how many years did you do it Fred until you said enough is enough.......
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#919439 - 01/19/15 06:35 PM Re: Im done.......Just not like it use to be.......... [Re: superfly]
fp Offline
Old Duffer

Registered: 03/15/99
Posts: 2967
Loc: Hoquiam,WA.USA
25 or so full time. Would'a went a little longer but broken down body just wouldn't let me do it. Started when I was 35 and quit a good job to do it.

I am sure I got into it about the right time and got out at the right time. I never had the internet during those days to (help)? me out like it does now. I very seldom post a fish bragging picture as many now do.

It was a good ride and I am glad to be done with it. Don't fish much on rivers anymore. See some horrible guides these days out there. Also, see some very good ones too!

I worked very hard and made a decent living.

Thank you for asking,

fp

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#919441 - 01/19/15 06:50 PM Re: Im done.......Just not like it use to be.......... [Re: superfly]
bankbum Offline
Spawner

Registered: 05/10/09
Posts: 779
My whole life I have wanted to be a guide. I've looked forward to the day I can start. But as of late that dream has slowly died due to the over population of new guides who just fallow the next big hit techniques.
So many reason you speak of are the very reasons why I have not pursued that dream.

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#919443 - 01/19/15 06:53 PM Re: Im done.......Just not like it use to be.......... [Re: superfly]
superfly Offline
The Renegade White Man

Registered: 02/16/00
Posts: 2424
Loc: The Coast or the Keys !!!
I hate to be a party pooper but if you want to do it move to Florida Brother !
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#919445 - 01/19/15 06:56 PM Re: Im done.......Just not like it use to be.......... [Re: superfly]
superfly Offline
The Renegade White Man

Registered: 02/16/00
Posts: 2424
Loc: The Coast or the Keys !!!
I remeber when I started Fred you guys all hated me and for good reason.....I was a punk ass long haired loud mouth from the city but I eventually learned and matured over the years that everything isnt best resolved with a fight on a gravel bar....JR taught me that....anyways I will say to you and George sorry for the BS in the beginning.... I soon learned....
Its to bad that it has gotten so bad that I dont even want to fight it anymore............
Peace Fly
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#919451 - 01/19/15 07:05 PM Re: Im done.......Just not like it use to be.......... [Re: superfly]
blackmouth Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 11/05/04
Posts: 2713
Loc: right place/wrong time
Superfly, A fellow that I have known since junior high is still an active guide (at least the last time I checked he was). He is much older than you, yet he is still at it.

We are free to draw our own conclusions. wink

I'm wishing you good fortune in your new life,








!




_________________________
"The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter."
Winston Churchill

"So it goes." Kurt Vonnegut jr.

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#919454 - 01/19/15 07:12 PM Re: Im done.......Just not like it use to be.......... [Re: superfly]
superfly Offline
The Renegade White Man

Registered: 02/16/00
Posts: 2424
Loc: The Coast or the Keys !!!
George Rose ?
its not that I can't do it.....its just I refuse to be a part of the " new " guide cultural wich is shallow and lacks experience and professionalism...
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#919456 - 01/19/15 07:30 PM Re: Im done.......Just not like it use to be.......... [Re: fp]
heavyline Offline
Eyed Egg

Registered: 01/09/08
Posts: 7
I started guiding in 1961 in Forks, 1963 started fishing Forks in the winter Oregon and Idaho in the summer. From that time on my whole year was guiding . It was tough to start then but with the conditions now in the industry I cannot see how any one can start out with any hope on making a living. Even in those early years you needed to fish many different river systems to stay busy , that was much of the fun and adventure, permits were available just by applying.

Without a permit on one of the regulated rivers and a year round opportunity to work it is more of a hobby ,with the exception being a few very talented and resourceful guides.

Was able to help all my children through college and teach my kids the smart people were riding in the boats not running them. I worked full time at it until 2005 when , besides getting old 71 , the enjoyment was not there anymore. I still have a couple powerboats and drift boats
and fish for pleasure . I enjoy the ocean more now , nice to not be running in the dark to find first water.

I feel your pain and hope you find another occupation that is rewarding as guiding.

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#919461 - 01/19/15 08:05 PM Re: Im done.......Just not like it use to be.......... [Re: superfly]
sleestak Offline
Fry

Registered: 03/06/12
Posts: 27
In the fly fishing world, the writing was on the wall when several outfits started "guide schools", where a fresh college graduate with essentially zero true angling experience could fork over $2,500 and learn "everything you need to pursue a rewarding career as a fly fishing guide" in a 10 day course. In this week, a student would learn rowing a boat, casting instruction, entomology, reading water, running your business, etc. For most truly great guides that knowledge was acquired for many years or decades before they decided it was honorable to take people's money in exchange for a fishing trip.

I know a lot of good guides who have been throwing in the towel lately, totally disenfranchised with the state of affairs in the angling world currently. Most of them are now happily engaged in other careers and most don't miss the guide business, which says a lot to me.

I'm pretty well convinced this "bubble" will burst at some point in the next few years and there will be a massive capitulation once many of these guys figure out they really aren't cut out to be career guides. Perhaps at that stage some of the really respectable guides will come back onboard and we will reach an equilibrium once again where limitless egos and chasing the "flavor of the week" isn't the game.

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#919472 - 01/19/15 09:15 PM Re: Im done.......Just not like it use to be.......... [Re: superfly]
DrifterWA Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 04/25/00
Posts: 5074
Loc: East of Aberdeen, West of Mont...
My observation.......all in Grays Harbor or close to, 1968 to present day......late 60's - 70's......not many guides, weren't really needed, lot's of fish, wild runs were big, hatchery fish were everywhere.

Bank access on many rivers was EVERYWHERE.....very few driftboats and VERY few sleds. Rivers like the Hoh, Queets, upper Quinault, Wishkah, Humptulips, Wynoochee, Satsop, North River, Willapa, and others all had steelhead, Coho, Chinook. I can actually say, that I have NEVER bought any "red meated fish"....

What happened???? Well Bolt decision was the beginning of a start to where we are....NT gill netters were under control, only fished salmon, Chehalis River and of course Willapa. Bolt said basically, treaty tribes were allow 50% of the fish...salmon and steelhead....for many years the local tribe only fished during the salmon season.....no problem, hatchery's were running full bore....lot's of salmon and lot's of steelhead, both wild and hatchery.

Fishing remained good, late 70's - 80's but changes were taking place....tribe which hadn't been netting steelhead, started.....more nets for longer periods of time, hatchery productions started to be cut back....access on many rivers, started to be "closed off"......so the answer was, closed waters......hire guide or buy your own boat to get where the fish were. Pretty soon boat traffic got to be what, seemed like out of control......but wasn't close to what it is today.

You can check back on some of my old posts......many people were retiring earlier, 401 plans gave them the $$$$$$$ to buy/do many things their folks couldn't do. Driftboats, jet sleds, guided trips, sky rocketed...now many people have boats and can afford guides 25 years younger than I could even think about buying the same equipment.

Now you have the equipment, or time off, or can just afford to hire a guided trip.......more people want to use their boats or just go and try to catch fish.......bottom line, LESS FISH, longer netting seasons, more and more boats.....tough to enjoy the time on the water, fish are tougher to get, got to get there earlier to "get the prime spot", so you can produce if you are a guide or just catch a fish if you have your own boat.

MORE people coming to State......just aren't making anymore rivers....I get burned out trying to get to areas to fish and having to sit until day light......grrrrrrr

I liked the Old days.............

Oh Joe.....wish you well in your search for a new job opportunity.
_________________________
"Worse day sport fishing, still better than the best day working"

"I thought growing older, would take longer"

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#919474 - 01/19/15 09:51 PM Re: Im done.......Just not like it use to be.......... [Re: superfly]
eugene1 Offline
Spawner

Registered: 09/17/10
Posts: 885
Loc: out there...
Interesting perspective DrifterWA and Joe for younger guys!

I guess more people is happening all over not just in your area. Doesn't someone here have a signature line about expectations of fish are due to current (sh!tty) conditions and we forget about the old days, or something to that effect?

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#919476 - 01/19/15 09:54 PM Re: Im done.......Just not like it use to be.......... [Re: superfly]
bk paige Offline
Juvenile at Sea

Registered: 12/22/14
Posts: 121
Loc: On the Sky
Its a hard life being a guide, good luck and have fun fishing for your self!!!
_________________________
Wishin I was fishin the Sauk!!!
Catch and Release is not a crime!!!!

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#919477 - 01/19/15 10:05 PM Re: Im done.......Just not like it use to be.......... [Re: superfly]
Jason Beezuz Offline
My Waders are Moist

Registered: 11/20/08
Posts: 3440
Loc: PNW
I feel you fly.

How about the new young bucks dream bigger than being a guide? It is crazy to me how many young dudes think being a guide is a huge accomplishment. It is a huge accomplishment after 25+ years, not after you have a shiny new web site and are guiding a bunch of family friends. The new guides I see obviously have a lot of family funding going into their little project. They often have vehicles and boats that I only dream of owning as a hard working person. It clearly doesn't add up and they are stealing business from people who provide the real deal experience.

It's about more than calling yourself a guide and charging rates that cover Red Bull and jerky.
_________________________
Maybe he's born with it.

Maybe it's amphetamines.

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#919479 - 01/19/15 10:40 PM Re: Im done.......Just not like it use to be.......... [Re: Jason Beezuz]
sleestak Offline
Fry

Registered: 03/06/12
Posts: 27
Originally Posted By: Jason Beezy
I feel you fly.

The new guides I see obviously have a lot of family funding going into their little project. They often have vehicles and boats that I only dream of owning as a hard working person. It clearly doesn't add up


Ain't that the truth! It always makes me scratch my head when I see all these new guides rolling up in $40,000 lifted trucks with Micky Thompson tires and $2,000 worth of rims on them, towing a brand new shiny drift boat with $1,000 of aluminum rod holders mounted to the roof. Then you see the old time guide with a beat up Willie and a 15 year old truck...the guy that should be at a higher status all things being equal. The math never really added up to me...a lot of engineers I know have fewer toys and spend a lot less money than most newbie young-gun guides it seems.

Anyhow...I digress! Good luck in your future endeavors!

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#919482 - 01/20/15 01:21 AM Re: Im done.......Just not like it use to be.......... [Re: superfly]
superfly Offline
The Renegade White Man

Registered: 02/16/00
Posts: 2424
Loc: The Coast or the Keys !!!
Thanks Guys you all make excellent points and its all true ! which is sad...
I am Driving my 2002 ford f-150 fx-4 which is paid for and I keep it in tip top running condition with a new tranny, new front end and new rear end all in the last year............Much cheaper then the 6-800 dollar a month Car payment.....My 17x 60 Thor is paid for and all my gear is top notch and all piad for by me and my guide money !
It is sad because I had the best salmon season I had in years ! absolutley Killer and I fished almost every day from early September all the way up to Damn near Christmas...... and many days alone on water that was blown out but after all the years of doing this you learn where to catch the coho in high brown water.................
Anyways I have alot of offers and opportunities in front of me.
I will guide again someday but it will be in the 305 area code where guides are actually paid what they should be and there isnt a bunch of entitled youngsters with no experience trying to undercut all the other guides and guides actually work together and keep one another booked...
When I step away you won't see me on the water for quite sometime, Its not fun for me anymore and I really don't feel like fishing for myself at this time..............anyways only time will tell how long this BS will last but I think it will be short lived.............Thanks for the support and take care
Peace Fly
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#919486 - 01/20/15 07:33 AM Re: Im done.......Just not like it use to be.......... [Re: superfly]
Coreyifish Offline
Alevin

Registered: 12/06/14
Posts: 11
Loc: 51 Sunflower Rd. Port Angeles,...
Fly, good luck in your future endeavors, you will be missed. Stay positive.

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#919487 - 01/20/15 07:35 AM Re: Im done.......Just not like it use to be.......... [Re: superfly]
Nick Berto Offline
Juvenile at Sea

Registered: 07/18/11
Posts: 248
Loc: Monroe, WA
I am sorry that you feel this way Joe...

You say you are not blaming the new guides but that is precisely what you are doing. Quiting and blaming it all on the younger guides and guys on the river is really lame and using them as a scapegoat is not the right way. You have been a highly respected and great guide, don't just blame the up and coming and quit. Nothing ever stays the same and everythign evolves, most change with it and those who don't are usually left behind feeling empty and lost.

Are their lots of reasons why the new "guides" suck and are ruining it for lots of people?, yes and most agree with your perspective... But that is not the underlining issue. Plenty of other stuff to give good reason for not wanting to be a guide anymore.

The rivers are overcrowded, overfished, overnetted, overregulated, and most of all overguided. This isn't the good old days anymore and it surely is going to get worse, not better (the truth). The way of the guide is a tough life and if you can't handle it anymore than so be it but don't blame everybody else for it. There are plenty of other guides that continue to have a positive attitude no matter what and find a way to make it work (like Ray Ray for example).

You are so good at many other things and I know you will be succussful at whatever your going to end up doing. I wish you the best my freind and hope to see you soon and get some days on the water before its over this year. I hope you can find peace in whatever you end up doing. I'm sure glad to see you found a new girl and are happy.

Long live the KING...


Edited by Nick Berto (01/20/15 07:37 AM)

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