Good for you & family RvW. This crap is not acceptable. Give em' hell.

People that can't do basic math without using a calculator are taking over the world.

Today's problems revolve largely around work ethic and in my opinion it's easy to see why.
30 years ago there was a lot of opportunity to learn how to work. Families had a yard, garden, animals that kids participated in maintaining. They had the opportunity to mow the old lady's yard next door. They walked or rode their bikes frequently. Many worked after school.
Fast forward 30 years. Kids are more and more being raised in an apartment setting. The opportunity to work is simply not as available and there are many more kids. Hell now days you are taking a risk hiring a kid under 18. People don't feel as safe letting their kids walk or ride their bikes anywhere. After school it's homework time or sit on the couch time and text away. The kids are connected with the other ones sitting on their asses and no effort is required. So are the adults. Many of which have become over weight because they to have bought into today's ways.
AND the kids that do want to work in their urban settings don't have job's or leaders to mentor them. Their choices are severely limited by their urban setting. Unless you consider the Starbucks manager a mentor.
Things have defiantly changed and until parents themselves realize it and get off their own asses their kids will be a product of them.
America has forgotten how to make their own coffee much less how to work.
The same fat lazy's who are screwing up their kids are the ones who complain about the illegals taking their jobs. Bottom line is the fat and lazy's wont do the hard work the Mexicans will do. They are the same ones that cut off the guy in the new red Corvette because after all how dare he have worked his ass off all his life and be able to afford that. They don't respect the effort=reward concept. They are the same ones that feel life has dealt them a tough hand because they haven't got off their asses and earned it.
They feel entitled to something for nothing and so do their fat offspring.
Today's Americans better wake up quick.

Private school is a big blow job for people that think little billy and Cindy are special. It is a homogenous environment that does not expose them to the worlds diverse social strata. This is a social world first and unless you learn to navigate in that world you will not be successful by any measure. Public schools are the only place that mirror the real world socially. So put your kids in a public school and augment their education in other ways . Recent data suggests (surprise) that parent involvement in education is the most important factor in a child's academic success. There is more to life that your grade point and which school you attend and success is defined by your goals in life not your possessions and bank account.

All I know is I need to have a pool installed in the back yard for when my son is in high school.
Just sayin.

It's convenient in this case that the first five characters of your handle express my response to your assertion. (That was just for fun, BTW). Actual response below.

The entity you described (the one that makes stuff we all need) is a BUSINESS, which may or may not be (although I suppose most manufacturers are) a corporation. The incentive to incorporate is to enjoy the benefits of a corporate tax structure, which translates fairly directly to higher profits. It's not the desire to maximize profits that disturbs me (although there is often quite a bit of evil involved in that process). Rather, it's the extreme social costs at which that goal is realized. If you view short-term profit and shutting out competition as the measures of good business, the corporate model is right up your alley. If you value the principles on which this country was founded, you will realize that corporations are becoming to our current society what British royalty was to the colonists.

Poor Asian kids in identical schools with Black , white and Hispanic kids out perform all of them . They typically outperform even the private school kids on ACT and Sats . There is a familial expectation of acedemic success in the home of the Asian kids. They typically attain professional degrees that are somewhat isolated from the social requirements of society. Money is often cited as the number one reason schools fail. However we are exponentially increased the amount of money we through at schools in the past 50 years and scores have stayed flat of gone down. We need to move to a two tiered system. Tier one is pre college , you competitively earn the right to attend. Everyone else goes into a basic program geared years the trades. Who gives a shait of Shaq or Dewayne can do algebra, if the m'fr can weld he will always have work available. I retired this year so I have been able to see how this can work. I have had a 19 year old homeless kid living with me since the first of the year. He dropped out of school in the 9th grade. Horrible home life but never did drugs or alcohol. We coached him up on the basics every night after he worked an 8 hour day. He passed his GED exams last week with scores in the top 10% . He had tears in his eyes when he got the news. He had never experienced success in his life because third was no one to set the expectation for him. He had no idea that he was worth something to the world. He leaves for basic training in the U.S. Army in two weeks. He did this all on his own all we did was give him direction. Thousands like him clogging up the system.

We don't need no education
We don't need no thought control
Hey teacher leave Piper's kids alone

Some of the math homework lessons my kids brought home were a little confusing. My son is pretty good at math and it helped when he went through his construction program at West Sound Tech and Bates. Could still pursue a construction management degree after he gets his AA. I used to help out at his grade school for the science fair.

I had to help out my wife with her math homework and explain it to her at her level. It's frustrating as an engineer to explain math to those lacking basic math skills.

Holy crap there is a lot of misinformation in this thread.

I don't think a lot of people are really understanding what Common Core actually is. Common Core is essentially a universal set of educational standards that are set almost nationwide. Only a few states have yet to adopt these standards. Basically, these standards are developed through what is developmentally appropriate for children at a given age. For example addition and subtraction in first grade, multiplication in third grade, ect. Common Core aims to create consistency of the standards nationwide. For example, If Johnny moves from Washington State to California, he will continue learning the same material that was taught to him in Washington State. If he attends a school in a state that has not adopted the Common Core Standards, he could be learning God knows what.

What a lot of people's beef really should be with are with some of the teaching strategies that exist within Common Core (especially within math). A lot of traditional ways of doing math that a lot of us were taught aren't always taught as a strategy to get an answer. Supposedly, a lot of the new strategies taught will make learning upper level math more easy once kids get the hang of it. This is the part that I actually question because it is hard to prove, and my traditional ways of learning seem to be quicker and easier.

The main reason why academic achievement in America sucks is because we are the only country in the world that offers free education to EVERYONE regardless of race, nationality, language, culture, disability, mental health, cognitive abilities, familial circumstances, socio-economic status, ect. These are all barriers that limit access to education in other countries. Here in American, it doesn't matter, by law EVERYONE is provided with education, regardless of any barrier that exists. Everyone must be accommodated.

It also doesn't help when our [Bleeeeep!] parents are not as involved in our education as they used to be. Parental involvement in a child's education is the biggest indicator of academic success across the board. Make sure your kids have a book in their hands when you tuck them into bed tonight. You can play angry birds or another tablet game with them tomorrow after school. Just don't miss baseball practice.



Matt

Source: Myself (Child Mental Health Counselor) and wife (Special Education Instructor)

More funding is all that's needed.

Parents that want to write off their children for tax puposes should have to include a school attendance form to the I.R.S for each child listed. I bet the parents would be more involved in what their Kids are doing or not doing. Money works wonders.

Streamer, what you say is very true and I suppose, like you said it's the ridiculous way they "teach" this new math. I have heard many teachers complain that while they understand the math they are teaching they don't understand how to teach it.

I spoke with my sons' school today and am satisfied with their perspective and therefore told my son today that he will be taking the test.

I am now focused on some of the options available as far as math classes go.

and everyone is educated to the lowest common denominator...

That's a whole lot of crap, Streamer, and Chuck is right.

I don't give a sh!t what it is - it isn't working. Perhaps we should come to grips with the fact that not every kid is going to be a physicist and stop making future physicists wait for future burger flippers in math class so we can spout some bullsh!t about everyone getting an opportunity. The opportunity they're getting is to receive a second-rate education so we can feel warm and fuzzy.

The results speak for themselves. Our kids do not measure up to the rest of the world, and using the excuse that we educate every kid as a reason is a cop-out full of cowardice and stupidity.

Somehow, I don't think a counselor and special education teacher are valid sources, either. If you do, perhaps it's because you place a higher value on warm and fuzzy than you do on real , measurable statistics...............and that is the problem right there.

I took college-level calculus and had to struggle with my kids' 4th and 5th grade math homework - explain that with your story about how we educate everyone and that's why our schools are failing. That ISN'T the reason. The reason is we've become too gutless to identify that the world is full of ditch-diggers AND scientists - and both can bring value to society - and we should stop treating them the same by using some garbage system called Common Core.

My kids are college-aged now, so I'm done doing battle with the local school district. It still angers me, though, that my tax dollars flow into a system administered by clowns that ask for more money to perform at such a low level. I posted the text below on another BB I post on - it's a perfect example of why our schools are junk and why our kids are the ones who suffer from it.

"When I was a Senior in high school, my school offed to pay me 5 bones a day to tutor a group of 6 freshman paste-eaters who were failing, instead of taking one of my early-outs.

I agreed because 25 bones a week paid for beer.

At the end of the first quarter, the little donkeys were ALL getting better than C's in their classes - an increase of 2 full grade points. It's because they weren't stupid, their teachers were just fuckheads that failed to get through to them.

One Friday afternoon, I let the them bail out 5 minutes early to get on their way. Some administrator jackass saw them going across campus, and the following Monday I was called to the office. They said that because I had let these kids out early, they'd have to terminate my employment. I laughed right at the counselor's face and asked if they thought it was any skin off my ass if these kids went back to failing all their classes in spite of the 25K a year the school district was spending to educate them - and failing - when I was doing a better job for 25 bucks a week.

I went back to taking 2 early-out and buying my own beer and those kids likely went back to failing.

Since then, I still vote for school levies, but know that schools are doomed to fail because the administrators that operate them are complete fucktards, and no matter how good the teachers are - and most of them aren't - the kids are not going to get a good education no matter how many dollars rain down on them.

Of course, the senior leadership at my company are all fucktards, too, but at least we don;t ask the public for more money every year to continue being shitheads. Every so often, the stockholders demand that the fucktards' heads roll, and we get a new group of fuckin' idiots who find new ways to kill sales and not get the job done..............but it's never public money we piss away.

And THAT is the difference. You want to piss money away? Then piss away your own fuckin' money. Why I still vote for levies is beyond me. Too much alcohol abuse, I imagine."



Frankly, I've had my fill of discussing this. Like I said, my kids are pretty much on their own now, and I'm not fighting this battle any longer

While talking to a HS counsellor about problems my son was having with meeting college requirements because of how they scheduled classes (not enough English) the comment I got back was "most of our students don't go to college". Self-esteem is higher valued than accomplishment. In other classes, no homework was assigned-just stuff that was done in class-because they knew some of the kids wouldn't do work outside of school and we can't let the little dears fail.

One of our youngsters at work is doing a 2 year class to get some job at boeing and asked me about a math problem he was having trouble solving even though he was given the answer. He gave me the problem and I ran it through the math I was taught in school 50 years ago, no paper and pencil or calculator, spit out the answer 10 seconds later. Thank God my son got out of school before all this [Bleeeeep!] they call education today became the standard. He took a software testing class at the U W extension in Bothell, did a couple of temp jobs, his boss at Microsoft liked him and got him set up for interviews. He now has 35 employees he is responsible for. I doubt with the least common denominator education system we have today that would have happened.

so here's a little update...

Levi came home last night and told me, "hey dad, today they taught us how to do it the way you taught me!"


basically the school wasted the time of 3/4 the kids in the room for more than two days trying to teach the "common core" to the other 1/4 of the class...

Volunteer at the school , do home work with your kids every night , be the change you bitch about.

Also it helps if only one parent works while the kids are in school.

Chuck,

I don't think you're understanding what Common Core is. It is standards that are developed through an evidenced based testing system that is also internationally benchmarked, meaning it is on par with what is being taught in other countries.

The problem isn't with the material itself, it is with the lack of rigorous intensity and additional strategies used to teach the material. Common Core is not strategies, and the problem is not with Common Core.


Dan,

Physically you may not reach the top floor, but cognitively I know you do. You clearly have no understanding of how the educational system works, so I will give you the benefit of the doubt and try to explain since I know you aren't as stupid as EVO or dwatkins.

If there is one thing people should take away from this it's that Common Core does not dictate how teachers teach material to students. Teaching strategies for understanding the material is left up to the discretion of individual teachers. This is where the problem lies; often students learn a variety of strategies for getting answers (particularly with math) instead of focusing on a single traditional way, and learning it through vigorous repetition until it becomes second nature. Valuable time is lost in vigorous repetition because teachers are focusing too much time trying to accommodate all student learning styles by teaching a variety of strategies. This is the problem, and it has almost nothing to do with Common Core.

Piper gave the most fitting example of this.



So anyway, Dan, the reason we don't measure up to the rest of the world is for a variety of reasons. We pay our teachers [Bleeeeep!] salaries, so nobody of academic excellence or intelligence wants those jobs. The people who should be teaching our kids are working in other sectors that pay much better $$$ for their smarts. Also, like I had mentioned earlier, we are the only country in the world that is legally required by law to educate everyone regardless of any of the factors mentioned in my previous post. This is a costly endeavor, is also one reason why teacher pay sucks, and why much time is diverted away from focusing on teaching in one specific way. Administration and districts poorly spending tax dollars plays a big role in it as well and is an entirely different issue unrelated to Common Core but I digress.

As far as myself and my wife both not being credible sources is also a testament to your lack of understanding. I work closely with school systems in the development of Individualized Education Plans, and require extensive use of statistical analysis in my day to day work to establish measurable goals and progress monitor. My Master of Science degree speaks to this. In working with children in an outpatient counseling setting, I work with children in home and focus on counseling and behavior analysis. What I observe are many kids with [Bleeeeep!] home lives that do not have all of their basic needs met, and then are expected to be on par in learning with children who have parents that feed them, put a roof over their heads, love them, and help them with their homework if needed. You would be surprised how many parents don't do any of these things.

My wife has a better understanding of Common Core because it gives her the framework of what her students must learn to do. It is the material, and not the strategies, which you would know if you actually spent 5 minutes researching it.

And if you want something warm and fuzzy go ahead and pound your fist into sand and stick it you know where. I know you are a lot more intelligent than you are sounding.



Matt