Hey guys,

The Cowlitz meeting in Chehalis tonight made me think of something I just heard the other day. Over 200 (!) wild steelhead returned to the Cowlitz River this season and were passed into the upper river. Also, about 200 surplus later winter run hatchery fish were also transferred to the upper river. So a little over 400 steelhead went to the upper Cowlitz and Cispus Rivers this year and deposited eggs in the gravel the old fashioned way! Obviously, there's a long way to go, but I think this is a pretty cool start.

Oh, and a really interesting thing is that wild steelhead smolts had a three times higher survival rate than their hatchery cousins. Surprised?

And they continue to get better at collecting downstream migrants (the most important part of restoration) at Cowlitz Falls. WDFW transported over 19,000 spring chinook smolts (so far), 105,000 coho, 16,000 steelhead, and 1,300 cutthroat smolts around the dams this spring.

On the Cowlitz, the times they are a changin'.

Sincerely,

Salmo g.

Wild steelhead in any river are a blessing to see somethng like this in the Cow is super cool. Now if angler ethics would clean up it.... its a start.

thick

Were we at the same meeting???

How on earth can you come away from that positive????

The death of the Cowlitz is at hand hang on to your hats folks.

Jim

Don't know who you are, wish I could have met you.

Salmo,
I just realilzed that you posted your statement at noon today??????

Was there a meeting this afternoon that I wasn't aware of?

Jim

What's called wild steelhead on the Cowlitz are really a cross between Chambers creek & WILD steelhead...Seems unlikely to me that the smolt would survive the trip down river..The Cowlitz is a put and take river in my opinion.

How ridiculous to speak of recovery on a river where they just put a dam 7 years ago, maybe the last big dam in Washington state, also I'd be willing to bet 200 wild fish have allways returned to the cowlitz and probably always will. Recovery on the Cow boils down to Tacoma PUD tryin to save some bucks. There is no surprise that wild fish smolts survive better then hatchery smolts, funny how having some knowledge allows us to think that others have none. Trucking fish around dams has nothing to do with the recovery of runs, in my opinion. Seems a pricier options then running hatcheries, oh but I forgot the feds will probably pay for that and not the hatcheries. Sounds like you are either involved in and getting paid by the fish mongers or you stepped on too many hooks at blue creek, there Salmo. C

Geez, talk about a couple of negative replys! Thanks for the info Salmo, it is good that they have developed some natural spawning.

Now lets us get to the rest of the meeting.
Which was bend over and we are not going to get kissed frist!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
No more summer run no early winter run no more plant in the upper river or Riff lake
Afish ladder at Mayfeild if recovery start to work in 15 years. Or tpu will pay a fine and be done that would be cheaper for them and with their track record they will make sure it won't work. And who is going to hold them to task the same guorp that has fail to do so for the last 20 years. I for one have some letter to write and will be happy to give anyone the list of names to write to just email me.
Oh and if you are thinking this dose not afect me I don't fish the Cowlitz where do you think those guides are going to take there sleds let alone the rest of us. How long before some dipstick finds out that not all the coastal rivers have bans on moters
and you come around the bend into teh101 hole and find some nut free drifting down and running back up just like blue creek
Or all those garbage finging nuts stomping in your neck of the woods. And they get away with this one what river will be next is the Dam on your fishing hole up for relicnaing

Rat,
I agree and posted about the importance to all river fisherman on another post. The Cowlitz is simply the wrong river to experiment with...it can handle lots of folks, it can handle big sleds...it needs to be a harvest river until we figure out salmonid recovery successfully in some of the smaller rivers.

Once again I find myself wishing I knew who you are also so we could have met. As for now my thoughts and my checkbook are with Corky Smith.

Jim

Chuck and Jim, I'll make a statement that would not be bold, Salmo G has much more than a little knowledge in this area. He is without question a friend and proponent wild fish and enhancement. Take sometime and search his past posts and see if you dont agree.

thickline

I can totally agree that Salmo has vast knowledge, as I have read many of his posts. We need to look at the big picture of the Cowlitz though. We are attempting to restore the most heavily utilized river in the state when there are dozens of canidates out there. The only reason I can see is so that Tacoma can save some bucks. Can it be all that bad to have a river that is put and take, compared to putting the fish into trucks? Is that more natural? Why don't we put emphasis on a river like the Washougal, whose runs are beat without the dams? Seems we would learn alot more about the natural way to recover fish runs, but hey a pud isnt paying for that hatchery are they? C

How are they trying to restore wild runs when they are not going to even put in a fish ladder. They want to see three upper runs restored in 15 years or they pay a 15 million $ fine well it cost 36 million for the ladder on the Green. Anything they put in the settlment is a con they save money if it fails. They will sign it in one week than it is over for that river if we don't do anything to tell they that it is worng than it is on us when we have on hatchary fish in the Cowlitz. Tell Koeing not to sign!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I stole the below information from the gamefishin.com board that was posted by Robert Crocker (Bob I hope you don't mind). I love to fish the Cow and believe that it should be managed as a "sportsman river". One to use as recreational value and not one to experiment with and try to restore wild fish that woould take 30 years (at a minimum) to accomplish. The problem with the hatcheries from what has been posted is that they are out dated and that disease is rampant in them. If that is the problem let's modernize the hatcheries. This is the last major river left in Washington that will support both the guide and the sportsmans pressure. Kill this fishery and small rivers will end up just like the Nooch' in January and February. I stole it as a method of getting out the address's, not necessaraly (sp?) the text of letters that you may or may not write. I hope that if you have any kind of feelings on this issue that you will. The bottom line is that TPU wants out and not spend $$$$$ on what they committed to when the dams were built.
Good luck and tight lines, Jeff

The message from the Cowlitz meeting was to "send letters".... I have attached addresses and key words to end of this post....

IT was an interesting meeting.. (I arrived 90 minutes late,but.. the wife had made some plans I couldn't get out of).. It was a lot like what I had expected the first meeting of WAA to be like (but wasn't)... There were still about 80 people there when I arrived, but apparently many had left by 7:30......

I was most impressed with Clancy Holt..... He is the only one I've met (and this was my first time I've seen Clancy and listened to him talk) in my year and a half of working sport fishing issues who seems to have a real feeling for what "activism" is all about.... At about quarter after 8 he started talking about "writing the letters".. he noted that over half the original attendees had already left and that realistically only 4 or 5 of that group would write the letters that need to be written.... he went on to say that the remaining ones are the only chance we have.... if even 20 or 30 or 40 would just write 5 or 6 letters each, it might make a difference........................

I suspect most people think of "activism" as being crowds of demonstrators charging down a busy street holding up banners or clashing with police or that kind of thing......... and to a certain extent it is.. but this is the "tip of the iceberg" kind of stuff.. the action, the camera, the glory story...... actually 99.9% of activism is simply some poor smuck (and I don't use the term in a derogatory way) like Clancy standing in front of a crowd trying to convince them to write a letter to their congressional rep or some other powerful person to convince them to take a certain point of view.... as the "poor smuck" is talking, everyone is trying to act like they are attentive, but by the time the attendees hit the "exit door", 95% have forgotten what it was they were supposed to do... If you are lucky, maybe a handful of the remaining "faithful" will actually do something...... The fact of the matter is that if enough letters go in, they will make a difference.. but any one individual letter doesn't... Each attendee only thinks about his/her one insignificant letter and that makes it so easy to "not bother"....... It's a frustrating business.. this is why I only do it on a voluteer basis... it makes it easy to move on when I get tired of beating my head against the brick wall of indifference.......

I will send my letters, (probably a dozen or so)... but will recognize that very few others will do the same and the effort will no doubt end up in the "did not influence" column, like all such efforts ever initiated by the sport fishing community in Washington State..... but I will refer to them as "mercy letters"... because, even if the effort is successful, it will bring me no benefit.. Personally, my fishing experiences have been so dismal this year, I doubt that I will even be able to get psyched to purchase a license next year... Indeed, even though I sense a huge fall salmon run coming in, my available time is filling up with other, more rewarding, activities and I may not participate in it at all.. even once.

In fact I have found another forum already that has some of the most creative and entertaining people I have ever held political debate with... it has been most amusing and they leave me with sore stomach muscles every evening from laughing so hard (gotta get down to the gym and do more situps I guess)......

but anyways.. back to the letters.....

key words are....

FERC proceedings involving Cowlitz Hydroelectric Project #2016

Agreement will have a severe negative impact on recreational sport fishing (if this is too complicated... just say "it's a bad agreement").... This from a "water management" and "managed fishery" perspective.... If you want to go into more detail... the "water management" thing means that flows are not maintained for healthy native fish populations.. they are maintained for maximum TCL profit (the real detail here is pretty lengthy... it's best to keep this stuff short)..... The "managed fishery" thing refers to hatchery production and "resident" fisheries behind the dam.. Basicly, "resident fisheries" will be eliminated and "hatchery production" will be cut back significantly...

no point in really going into much more detail... if there are enough letters saying this is a "bad agreement", they know who to go to for the "filler"...... Oh yeah,,,, be sure to use the word "bad agreement" or something like that......

addresses to send letters to... pick one, pick 6, pick them all.. it's your choice...

Mr. Steve Fransen National Marine Fisheries Service 510 Desmond Drive, S.E. Suite 103 Olympia, WA 98503

David J. Muller, Manager PUD No. 1 of Lewis County P.O. Box 330 Chehalis, WA 98532-0300

Debbie C. Young, Manager Tacoma Public Utilities - Light Division P.O. Box 11007 - 3628 S. 35th Street Tacoma, WA 98411

Albert Liou, P.E. - Manager Harza Engineering, Inc. 2353 130th Avenue, NE, Suite 200 P.O. Box C-96900 Bellevue, WA 98009

Toby Freeman Tacoma Public Utilities - Light Division P.O. Box 11007 - 3628 S. 35th Street Tacoma, WA 98411

Mark A. Eames National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration 7600 Sand Point Way, NE - Bin C15700 Seattle, WA 98115

Mark Crisson, Director Tacoma Public Utilities - Light Division P.O. Box 11007 - 3628 S. 35th Street Tacoma, WA 98411

Steven J. Klein, Superintendent Tacoma Public Utilities P.O. Box 11007 - 3628 S. 35th Street Tacoma, WA 98411

Sarah Hahn P.O. Box 11007 - 3628 S. 35th Street Tacoma, WA 98411

Lynn Burditt, Acting Forest Supervisor Gifford Pinchot National Forest 10600 NE 51st Circle Vancouver, WA 98682

Jocelyn B. Somers US Department of Agriculture 1734 Federal Building 1220 SW Third Ave. Portland, OR 97205

Frank S. Wilson US Department of the Interior Office of the Regional Solicitor 500 NE Multnomah Street, Suite 607 Portland, OR 97232

Mr. Gene Stagner US Fish and Wildlife Service 510 Desmond Drive SE, Suite 102 Lacey, WA 98503

Mr. Craig Olds Washington Department of Fish and Wildlife 550 Capitol Way North Olympia, WA 98504-1091

Walt Dortch - Coordinator Mount Baker Snoqualmie National Forest 21905 64th Ave. West Mount Lake Terrace, WA 98403-2278

Neil L. Wise Washington Office of Attorney General 1125 Washington Street, SE P.O. Box 40100 Olympia, WA 98504-0100

and don't forget to add applicable state and US congressional reps...

good hunting....

Password:

Salmonhead keep up the good work im sending my letters . On the salmon hachery i was told several years ago they syarted feeding the smolt a cheaper food and the result was very weak smolt. TCL wanted the cheaper food state said ok. also saw alot of smolt in those years at the baker rock fishing springers about half dead by the hunderds

Thickline,
I cannot disagree with your statement about salmo having vast knowledge. Big difference between he and I is that I make no attempt at being anonymous, I have some knowledge around this particular area also. In fact I believe salmo to be a certain WDFW employee that was invited but did not come to the meeting. I could be wrong and don't care if I am but with anonymity comes the ability to say whatever one wants without recourse in anyway. My primary point is that he posted information about a meeting that had not taken place yet...in fact 6 hours away. That in my book makes him a liar. As for letters, mine have been written but I do not believe for a moment that any will help.

If any of you folks are concernend about keeping your favorite river basically the same be ready to dip into your checkbook a little (don't know how much) and join in on the class action lawsuit that will begin on August 16th. I believe that the only way to really make the Cowlitz the river we would all like it to be then we need a strong court victory that will pin Tacoma to their obligation of fish returns, force them into fish passage that makes sense for fish, and to create a hatchery in the meantime that produces and maintains a quality put and take fishery in high numbers so that we don't simply just rape all the other rivers by shear numbers.

I will say it again at the risk of being redundant...lets not experiment on the Cowlitz...there is to much to lose on it and other systems.

Jim

Jim,

I question how you can call him a liar. He clearly posted that this was something he had heard a couple days ago.