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#943959 - 11/26/15 11:32 AM Re: We ARE Salmon People [Re: eyeFISH]
Smalma Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 11/25/01
Posts: 2844
Loc: Marysville
Larry -
You asked the question of what has changed?

The first as others have mention is the human population. Since 1980 the population of the State has increased from just over 4 million to about 7 million. 80% of that population live in the Puget Sound basin. We are all familiar with the long list of problems associated with that population growth.

The number of harbor seals have increased 10 fold since the marine mammal protection act. The numbers of harbor porpoises in recent years have increase from virtually none existent to now they are as abundant as harbor seals.

Because of the location of the Nisqually in relation to the Snohomish it should be clear that fish originating in the south sound are exposed to more and for a longer period of time the cumulative impacts associated with those changes.

One factor that is not commonly talked about is the changes in the regions river discharge patterns. Because of climate change (we will leave the cause of those changes to another debate) the timing of the freshwater discharge from our rivers have changed; and in some cases dramatically. Historically much of the freshwater entering Puget Sound was the result of snow melt which occurred in the spring/early summer. That large freshwater input increased the mixing of the waters of Puget Sound which coupled with the sun light of longer days drove a significant pulse of productivity. Today we see more of the run-off from floods/freshets during the fall and winter period and less snow-melt in the spring. The result is fewer and smaller productivity blooms at the critical time that smolts are entering and migrating through the Sound.

Curt

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#943963 - 11/26/15 12:49 PM Re: We ARE Salmon People [Re: eyeFISH]
Salmo g. Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 03/08/99
Posts: 13520
The parasite nanophyetus requires a snail as an intermediate host as I recall and can be transported by mammals wandering about. Nanophyetus is endemic to the Deschutes watershed for as long as anyone has known. That is apparently a major reason why none of the anadromous fish introductions have never taken well to natural production. The native cutthroat trout have co-existed with the parasite for just about forever, and presumably have a greater evolved resistance than any introduced fish stocks. I don't know if nanophyetus was historically endemic to the McAllister basin, but the Chinook salmon hatchery facility there was shut down due to reduced salmon survival attributed to nanophyetus. All it would take is for an infected raccoon or skunk to wander from the Deschutes, and eventually another to wander to the Nisqually basin to spread the infestation.

I don't know how much slough like conditions the snail requires, but the Deschutes is not characterized by that specific habitat type. But springs, with their attendant sloughs and vegetation, even if small, do exist in all three basins. I cringe to think of nanophyetus spreading further northward.

Some things described in the report indicate that things aren't looking good for steelhead, Chinook, and coho in PS for the foreseeable future.

Sg

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#943964 - 11/26/15 01:45 PM Re: We ARE Salmon People [Re: ]
Larry B Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 10/22/09
Posts: 3020
Loc: University Place and Whidbey I...
Originally Posted By: Piper
anyone heard of the Pack experimental forest? its lands drain into the nisqually near la grande.

it is an interest timeline if you take a look at the studies that have been done... I'm sure the experiments they are doing are totally safe for the fish...

list of studies


I am sure they are. After all, the UW has that great fisheries program and wouldn't the forestry folks confer with their fisheries counterparts? You know, higher education and all.

Full disclosure.....Go Cougs!
_________________________
Remember to immediately record your catch or you may become the catch!

It's the person who has done nothing who is sure nothing can be done. (Ewing)

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#943966 - 11/26/15 02:02 PM Re: We ARE Salmon People [Re: Smalma]
Larry B Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 10/22/09
Posts: 3020
Loc: University Place and Whidbey I...
Originally Posted By: Smalma
Larry -
You asked the question of what has changed?

The first as others have mention is the human population. Since 1980 the population of the State has increased from just over 4 million to about 7 million. 80% of that population live in the Puget Sound basin. We are all familiar with the long list of problems associated with that population growth.

The number of harbor seals have increased 10 fold since the marine mammal protection act. The numbers of harbor porpoises in recent years have increase from virtually none existent to now they are as abundant as harbor seals.

Because of the location of the Nisqually in relation to the Snohomish it should be clear that fish originating in the south sound are exposed to more and for a longer period of time the cumulative impacts associated with those changes.

One factor that is not commonly talked about is the changes in the regions river discharge patterns. Because of climate change (we will leave the cause of those changes to another debate) the timing of the freshwater discharge from our rivers have changed; and in some cases dramatically. Historically much of the freshwater entering Puget Sound was the result of snow melt which occurred in the spring/early summer. That large freshwater input increased the mixing of the waters of Puget Sound which coupled with the sun light of longer days drove a significant pulse of productivity. Today we see more of the run-off from floods/freshets during the fall and winter period and less snow-melt in the spring. The result is fewer and smaller productivity blooms at the critical time that smolts are entering and migrating through the Sound.

Curt


Again, I was trying to focus on the rather short term decline in smolt survival from South Sound. Your observation about changes in fresh water flow timing is interesting as is the possible impact of parasites.

The link I posted includes a page showing increases in population of seals and harbor porpoise but then goes on to suggest that just because there is a correlation does not mean a cause and effect relationship.

Information which was promulgated during development of the state's Puget Sound Rockfish Recovery Plan indicated that harbor seal population in Puget Sound around 1970 was approximately 200. Current estimates run between 15,000 and 17,000 consuming between 25-30 million pounds of food a year. And while I doubt there are 15,000 harbor porpoise they definitely have increased and now we have a significant population of California sea lions and a small but growing population of Stellars all of which have to eat although the sea lions probably not on smolts.
_________________________
Remember to immediately record your catch or you may become the catch!

It's the person who has done nothing who is sure nothing can be done. (Ewing)

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#943968 - 11/26/15 02:59 PM Re: We ARE Salmon People [Re: eyeFISH]
Smalma Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 11/25/01
Posts: 2844
Loc: Marysville
Larry -
I believe that the Puget Sound harbor porpoise population was estimated to be nearly 11,000 individuals in 2003. I sure that their population has increased since then.

Curt

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#943971 - 11/26/15 03:51 PM Re: We ARE Salmon People [Re: Smalma]
Larry B Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 10/22/09
Posts: 3020
Loc: University Place and Whidbey I...
Originally Posted By: Smalma
Larry -
I believe that the Puget Sound harbor porpoise population was estimated to be nearly 11,000 individuals in 2003. I sure that their population has increased since then. Curt


Thanks. I should have done some research!

This was pulled from the Pacific Biodiversity Institute's website:

For Washington State the harbor porpoise is found in the Washington Inland Waters (WIW which is mostly the Puget Sound) and along the coast. NOAA Fisheries considers the stock in the WIW to be different from the Northern Oregon/Washington Coast Stock for their Stock Assessment Reports (SARs). The most recent SAR for the harbor porpoise in the WIW was done in 2006 and at that time the population was estimated to be 10,682 and the trend was listed as unknown. The most recent SAR for the Northern Oregon/Washington Coast Stock was done in 2009 and the population was listed as 37,745.


I know I have been seeing a number of them around Possession but thought they were pretty much the same animals just making their local tour. And that may be true but in any case what I am seeing is only a small portion of the Puget Sound's population.

Edit: NOAA paper on harbor porpoise: http://www.afsc.noaa.gov/nmml/PDF/sars/po2011poha-ow.pdf.

Some round numbers for annual food requirements:

Using 11,000 animals at an average weight of 150 pounds (NOAA says 135-170 #) yields 1,650,000 pounds. Apply a reported daily requirement of 8% of body weight the total daily food requirement is 132,000 pounds. Multiply that by 365 days and the total Puget Sound population's annual food requirement is roughly 48,180,000 pounds. Adjust the numbers as you feel appropriate but however you do it will result in a big number. Even a very small percentage (or part of a percent) would equate to a lot of smolt.


Edited by Larry B (11/26/15 05:33 PM)
_________________________
Remember to immediately record your catch or you may become the catch!

It's the person who has done nothing who is sure nothing can be done. (Ewing)

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