....and who would you replace them with....

Corky from "Life Goes On" could probably do a better job, infact I know he could.... At least he would be honest.

You paint with a broad brush. There a lots of good folks there doing what they can within the limits/sideboards that they have to work with.

That is a little bit harsh, I think, for the working folks at the department.

Steelhead in the Great Lakes don't go to the "salt" and return.

We don't need "good" people doing what they can to stay within the limits\sideboards to maintain a pay check.... What good does that do? Worked with lots of cops that did the same thing. A wise Chinaman told me that "those who turn the other cheek to save themselves but feel bad about knowing whats going on are no good".

Thats what you call à "self enslaved pussy" that might as well have their balls cut off because they are completely worthless.

You do what you can to change things. At risk to your career and job. You do have to make significant changes in leadership but can you really say that the voters of this state don't support how WDFW manages? There really is no major call for change that is broad-based.

People are dumb, lack the ability to take responsibility for anything. 99.8% of human beings only are interested in "fitting in" being the same as everybody else" and " getting what they can for themselves". Self sacrifice for a greater good is not part of their life.

The only thing missing from this discussion is the amount of money that comes with our fish being listed on the ESA. Years ago I was told by a Hoh tribal member that the true goal of the elders of the tribe was to fish the Hoh stocks down until they got listed.The tribe will see tens of millions more money than they would just managing and harvesting.

and those are Skamania stock, so, are they "true" Steelhead by definition or are they just big ass Rainbows?

[Bleeeeep!], the cup of ignorance in this thread overfloweth . . .

Rich, your posts read like they were written by someone dumber than a box of rocks. WDFW manages salmon the way they do because that is the law, as in WACs, from the state legislature. You want salmon managed differently, then you need to change the laws governing the managing of salmon. Further, the abundance of salmon is less the product of state management and more the result of habitat conditions, habitat that WDFW has very, very little authority to regulate. If you were half as sharp as you think you are, you'd already know this stuff.

Evo, thanks for being your usual sh!t fer brains self. FYI (better write this down for future reference) steelhead are rainbow trout, rainbow trout that migrate to and from salt water. They are one and the same species. There, remember that. Skamania is one stock of steelhead, a hatchery stock originally derived of Washougal and Wind River summer steelhead. Skamania is one of several steelhead stocks that have been transplanted to the Great Lakes. Others include Chambers Creek and Alsea winter runs. There may have been stocks from California transplanted there, too, but I haven't verified that. Because steelhead stocks have been planted in the GL they call the fish steelhead, but since the GL are freshwater and not saltwater, they would technically be adfluvial (lake run) rainbow trout, but nobody calls them that because, well, the eggs for the transplant came from actual steelhead.

What is it they say, better to remain silent and thought ignorant instead of speaking up and proving ignorance beyond any doubt.

.

New sig line. Thanks Salmo

Salmo for someone that everyone thinks is so smart, you sure as arent that smart sounding to me.... you obviously have trouble reading/decihpering what people say...

ill put it in technical terms for you since you have to always make things so technical....

and its basically what i already said....

Steelhead are Rainbow trout that have a gene that causes them to be anadromous, Rainbow trout that do not go to the saltwater by definition for the last 100+ years are not Steelhead... sure, you may have eggs from a Steelhead, but if you throw them in a lake with no saltwater access, they will risidualize the gene that makes them anadromous, and revert back to being just a plain old Rainbow trout that is non anadromous... the WFC even brought that up about the plants of "Steelhead" smolt that some could residualize back to a Rainbow and actually hurt the resident Rainbow population in rivers, along with the Steelhead that could harm wild Steelhead populations....

so basically, according to your own words (lake run Rainbow), the GL Steelhead arent true Steelhead, they are just big ass Rainbow trout.... like i said...


now lets get even more technical, what happens to that gene? does it remove itself from the sequence, or does it lie dormant? i mean you are Mr. Scientist on this, so explain it, surely you or someone has done DNA sequencing on both species to find out if infact the gene is there dormant, or removed from sequence....

or, heres another thought.... remember, you guys, along with other government bodies, called Dollies and Bulls the same fish for how many years? wasnt it the 80s or so that someone finally realized that they are infact 2 different species of fish? so then, if no sequencing has been done, how do we know that Steelhead, and Rainbows arent infact 2 different species of fish? if there has been scientific studies into the DNA to negate any question, than my initial question is redundant, but if it hasnt been done, figure out a way to answer it, you of all people on this board have far greater access to that information than we do.....

straight from your old place of work Salmo.... basically what i said twice, just with not so scientific wording, im not a scientist, and never claimed to be.... but i sure as sh!t can read and tell what someone was trying to say, and i also dont act all high and mighty to the other person that didnt word it like it possibly should have been worded....


They are a unique species; individuals develop differently depending on their environment. While all O. mykiss hatch in gravel-bottomed, fast-flowing, well-oxygenated rivers and streams, some stay in fresh water all their lives. These fish are called rainbow trout. The steelhead that migrate to the ocean develop a slimmer profile, become more silvery in color, and typically grow much larger than the rainbow trout that remain in fresh water.

http://www.fisheries.noaa.gov/pr/species/fish/steelhead-trout.html

The current, up to date and in the literature information is that, in the anadromous zone, steelhead and rainbow are the same damn fish. Some offspring of anadromous parents stay in freshwater, some offspring of resident parents smelt and go to sea. Further, the factor that leads to smolting includes temperature and flow. Colder summer temps and higher flows lead to residency.

Even more interesting is that some rainbow, resident upstream of waterfalls, have become anadromous when placed into anadromous waters.

Those fish are significantly more complex than NOAA is wiling to admit. If they were too admit that a resident rainbow in the Cedar (for example) and a steelhead in the Cedar were the same damn fish and the river was plugged with "residents" (as it was recently) then listing that fish as endangered or threatened becomes a rather long stretch. Lots of politics involved in the listing I'll wager.

Don't get your panties in a bunch Salmo I get it...

It's difficult to admit to yourself that your entire career was based on lies, and that you actually assisted in the demise of wild fish which is contrary to what you thought all along.

with that being said I am sure the little voice in your head was telling you the truth but due to "life in America" you were forced not to pay attention. If you are like me the system tries to destroy you and truth be told there are just very few people that are as good as me.

If common sense is stupid then I have to own that...

yeah i stated the same sh!t that NOAA says and that Salmo says and im the one thats stupid....

right...

why do you idiots always have to turn positive things into arguments?

Simple, extremely accurate answer, "ignorance is their comfort zone"