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#955269 - 04/04/16 04:17 PM Re: J F C ! ! ! *** [Re: eyeFISH]
Carcassman Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 11/21/07
Posts: 7440
Loc: Olema,California,Planet Earth
They are getting that money to do barrier removal projects. You could do the same, just get organized and make a proposal that wins the competitions. Then, do the work.

There is a shitload of work and expense involved in barrier removal and the state is certainly not stepping up to do the work.

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#955284 - 04/04/16 07:51 PM Re: J F C ! ! ! [Re: eyeFISH]
milt roe Offline
Spawner

Registered: 01/22/06
Posts: 917
Loc: tacoma
According to the release, the WFC grant is for assessment.

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#955297 - 04/05/16 08:20 AM Re: J F C ! ! ! [Re: eyeFISH]
Salmo g. Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 03/08/99
Posts: 13396
It does make me curious what assessment $98,000 gets. The SF Newaukum consists of habitat suitable for coho, cutthroat, and steelhead. What will the agencies get that they don't already know?

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#955298 - 04/05/16 08:32 AM Re: J F C ! ! ! [Re: eyeFISH]
Todd Offline
Dick Nipples

Registered: 03/08/99
Posts: 27837
Loc: Seattle, Washington USA
Wouldn't it just be the best if they used the grant money to gather the information needed to file another lawsuit?

Fish on...

Todd
_________________________


Team Flying Super Ditch Pickle


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#955334 - 04/06/16 11:00 AM Re: J F C ! ! ! [Re: eyeFISH]
Rivrguy Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 03/03/09
Posts: 4399
Loc: Somewhere on the planet,I hope
OK all read and draw your own conclusions.

Hi everyone,

I thought I would update you on our meeting with Quinault tribe from yesterday. The Grays Harbor portion of our meeting did not go well.

We again offered to meet in the middle on the Chehalis coho forecast, but QIN would not agree to that “at this time”. Without an agreed to forecast, the meeting stalled without further discussion of Grays Harbor fisheries.

So we are virtually in the same place with regards to fishery planning as we were prior to meeting.

We are scheduled to meet again on Friday and we shall see if further Grays Harbor discussions take place.

Sorry for the lack of progress.

Steve Thiesfeld
Washington Department of Fish and Wildlife
Region 6 Fish Program Manager
48 Devonshire Road, Montesano, WA 98563
Steven.Thiesfeld@dfw.wa.gov
360-249-1201
_________________________
Dazed and confused.............the fog is closing in

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#955338 - 04/06/16 12:21 PM Re: J F C ! ! ! [Re: eyeFISH]
DrifterWA Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 04/25/00
Posts: 4978
Loc: East of Aberdeen, West of Mont...
IMO:


Meeting needs to be set.

Think its time for a "peace pipe" to be loaded with something. Pass the pipe around, until what ever problems exist between the 2 agencies, are lessened.

Time to move past the major fight every year, not only NOF but Wynoochee mitigation funds.

The hundreds of hours spent in these battles, every year, is not good for the resource but also the public image is not good.
_________________________
"Worse day sport fishing, still better than the best day working"

"I thought growing older, would take longer"

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#955342 - 04/06/16 01:25 PM Re: J F C ! ! ! [Re: DrifterWA]
bob r Offline
Returning Adult

Registered: 04/17/13
Posts: 281
Originally Posted By: DrifterWA
IMO:


Meeting needs to be set.

Think its time for a "peace pipe" to be loaded with something. Pass the pipe around, until what ever problems exist between the 2 agencies, are lessened.

Time to move past the major fight every year, not only NOF but Wynoochee mitigation funds.

The hundreds of hours spent in these battles, every year, is not good for the resource but also the public image is not good.


Neither the
Quinault or the state really care about "the public image". If that was the case we wouldn't be where we are at now. Bob R

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#955343 - 04/06/16 01:36 PM Re: J F C ! ! ! [Re: Rivrguy]
fish4brains Offline
Dah Rivah Stinkah Pink Mastah

Registered: 08/23/06
Posts: 6193
Loc: zipper
Quote:

I thought I would update you on our meeting with Quinault tribe from yesterday. The Grays Harbor portion of our meeting did not go well.

We again offered to meet in the middle on the Chehalis coho forecast, but QIN would not agree to that “at this time”. Without an agreed to forecast, the meeting stalled without further discussion of Grays Harbor fisheries.




It would be really nice if the "co-managers" would actually co-manage and work together. The perception of the tribe would be somewhat more favorable, and region 6 would at least not look like a bunch of lap dogs. Usually, as in this time, it just a bunch of bull [Bleeeeep!].
_________________________
...
Propping up an obsolete fishing industry at the expense of sound fisheries management is irresponsible. -Sg



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#955352 - 04/06/16 05:00 PM Re: J F C ! ! ! [Re: eyeFISH]
eyeFISH Offline
Ornamental Rice Bowl

Registered: 11/24/03
Posts: 12606
J F C ! ! !
_________________________
"Let every angler who loves to fish think what it would mean to him to find the fish were gone." (Zane Grey)

"If you don't kill them, they will spawn." (Carcassman)


The Keen Eye MD
Long Live the Kings!

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#955353 - 04/06/16 06:20 PM Re: J F C ! ! ! [Re: eyeFISH]
FleaFlickr02 Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 10/28/09
Posts: 3310
Well, Folks, the issue is not one of public perception. 90% of the public don't fish, do buy fish, and do sincerely believe that the Tribes need the fish they catch to sustain their livelihood and "traditions." That means that 90% would believe that the QIN is proposing a smaller forecast in the interest of protecting wild salmon and their heritage. Pretty nice PR move on their part, no?

I think about 100% of the 10% who do fish see things differently, but we are in the minority, so we get what we get. Pretty simple, even if it does suck.

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#955681 - 04/14/16 12:01 PM Re: J F C ! ! ! [Re: FleaFlickr02]
Rivrguy Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 03/03/09
Posts: 4399
Loc: Somewhere on the planet,I hope
A nice statement, but you know how it goes with each tribe

Tough Times Mean Hard Decisions in Planning Fishing Seasons
Lorraine Loomis, Chair Northwest Indian Fisheries Commission | 4/6/16

Tough times call for hard decisions, and we are facing some of the most difficult times we’ve ever seen when it comes to this year’s expected coho returns to western Washington.

After last year’s disastrous coho run, the tribal and state co-managers are taking the drastic step of considering a zero option for salmon fishing off the Washington coast and in Puget Sound.

Coho returns in most areas last year were less than half of what was expected. Those that returned displayed the effects of poor ocean conditions: warmer-than-normal water and less nutritious food for salmon. Most were 20 to 30 percent smaller than normal. Females returned with about 40 percent fewer eggs. That will result in a huge drop in both natural and hatchery production in the years to come.

The tribal and state co-managers need a full range of options – including no fishing at all – as we work to craft limited fisheries to meet basic needs over the next month. We hope it doesn’t come to that. Our cultures, treaty rights and economies depend on salmon. But the resource must come first.

We don't know how many coho will be coming back, how healthy they will be or how many eggs the females will have. We have never seen runs this low, so we don't know how well they might bounce back. That’s why zero must be the starting place for fisheries management planning this year.

Both hatchery and naturally spawning coho are in the same boat this year because both are equally affected by poor ocean conditions. In many instances, returns will likely be far below minimum levels needed to produce the next generation of salmon.

The Nisqually Tribe’s Kalama Creek Hatchery and the state’s Wallace River and Minter Creek hatcheries likely won’t even come close to reaching egg-take goals. It will be a nail-biter for many other hatcheries.

We must reduce impacts on returning hatchery fish to maximize returns to some facilities so we can meet egg shortfalls at others. Tribes are evaluating possible impacts from cherished ceremonial and subsistence fisheries that are a cornerstone of our cultures. That’s because every impact matters, whether from mark selective sport fisheries targeting hatchery salmon in marine waters to in-river trout fisheries that impact both hatchery and naturally spawning coho.

With plenty of good habitat, salmon populations are naturally resilient and able to withstand the impacts of poor ocean conditions. But today we are losing salmon habitat faster than it can be restored and the trend shows no signs of change. As a result, low returns are getting lower and returns for healthy populations are declining, too. The overall trend points in only one direction: downward.

We are in a situation where every year each returning salmon is becoming more and more important. The room for error continues to shrink. Even small mistakes can have huge consequences in times like these. That’s why conservation must be the first rule of fisheries management.

We don’t know what the future holds for the salmon and us, but we do know that we cannot sacrifice tomorrow’s salmon for today’s harvest. Those fish belong to the generations that will follow us.
_________________________
Dazed and confused.............the fog is closing in

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#955682 - 04/14/16 12:03 PM Re: J F C ! ! ! [Re: Rivrguy]
Rivrguy Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 03/03/09
Posts: 4399
Loc: Somewhere on the planet,I hope


This also arrived today & as always you want the attachments PM me.



Hi Everyone,

We are getting close to having a fishery regulation proposal package for the CR-102. We have attached an updated planning model, a summary of suggestions and comments we have heard to-date, and an updated chart for the outer marine recreational boundary.
The planning model utilizes a 4 fish adult bag in Marine Area 2.1 under Willapa Bay rules beginning on July 16th though January 31st. The freshwater regulations are similar to last year’s regulations (4 fish adult bag) except for a couple of changes that are discussed below. The commercial season is similar to what has been suggested by commercial advisors except for the removal of one 12 hour fishery in areas 2T and 2U in statistical week 39 (Sept. 18-24) in order to set aside at least a half a percent in both the Willapa River and Naselle River natural Chinook mortality rates for any Experimental Commercial Fisheries exploring alternative gear.

The first change I want to point out is on the North Nemah River. Currently there are 4 sections in the pamphlet and the second section (from bridge on Nemah Valley Rd to bridge at Nemah Hatchery) does NOT have salmon rules. This year we are considering splitting that second section into 3 smaller sections and each section will have different rules.

1. Bridge on Nemah Valley Rd. upstream to WDFW property line approx. 1.74 miles
a. Will remain closed to salmon (All Game Fish rules only)
2. WDFW property line upstream approx. 160 feet to the bridge at the Nemah Hatchery
a. Will be for Seniors Only (70 years+), Aug. 16 – Jan. 31
3. The bridge at the Nemah Hatchery upstream to the Nemah Hatchery weir
a. Will be for Seniors (70 year+) and ADA access Only, Aug. 16 – Jan. 31
b. The 400 foot closed water restriction will be removed.

Also, there are sections on the Willapa River (Hwy 6 upstream to Fork Creek) and Naselle River (Hwy 4 Bridge upstream to hatchery) that did not open for Salmon until September 16th. These fisheries when open during Chinook timing have been problematic in the past. While this model run has these sections open Aug. 16th through January 31st with a 4 fish adult bag, some consideration should be given to reducing this bag limit to a 2 fish adult bag in these sections to try to minimize some of the issues that have occurred in these areas historically. Additionally, the 400ft closed water restriction downstream from the weir on the Naselle River would be changed to 300 feet.

The second attachment is an updated version of the Marine Area 2.1 boundary line with GPS coordinates.

The third attachment is a list of all of the fishery season comments we’ve received as of April 6, 2016 either from the Advisory or public meetings or emails.

As a reminder of our APA process, we will likely have three separate CR-102 filings this year; WB commercial, GH Commercial, and Coastal Freshwater. The Marine Area WAC (220-28-620) will be filed through the folks in Olympia since most of this WAC includes Ocean Marine Areas. We will just provide our changes to them. The Coastal Freshwater WAC most likely will be a bit delayed due to on-going co-manager negotiations in Grays Harbor and the North Coast that may last beyond PFMC this week. As soon as Grays Harbor and North Coast changes are incorporated and formatted, the Coastal Freshwater WAC can be filed in CR-102.

If you have any other suggestions you want to provide or any comments regarding any of the suggestions listed in these attachments, please send those to both Chad Herring and myself.

Thanks. Barbara


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Barbara McClellan
Area Fish Biologist | Willapa Bay
WA Dept. of Fish and Wildlife| Region 6 Montesano
office #360.249.1213 | cell #360.470.3459| fax #360.249.1229
Email: Barbara.Mcclellan@dfw.wa.gov


Edited by Rivrguy (04/14/16 12:04 PM)
_________________________
Dazed and confused.............the fog is closing in

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#955776 - 04/15/16 10:53 AM Re: J F C ! ! ! [Re: Rivrguy]
Rivrguy Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 03/03/09
Posts: 4399
Loc: Somewhere on the planet,I hope
Update from Barbara but the thing on Willapa is highlighted in red.

Just an fyi for everyone who wouldn’t know where to find this information.

Below is a link to the PFMC (Pacific Fishery Management Council) website where they have announced the 2016 Salmon Seasons for the ocean late yesterday afternoon (it is still preliminary until the National Marine Fisheries Service (NMFS) approves these recommendations, which should happen by May 1, 2016).

http://www.pcouncil.org/2016/04/41865/dr...g-press-release

The important part to notice is on Table 2, the Recreational Management measure adopted by the Council for non-indian ocean salmon fisheries, 2016.
It states from Queets River to Leadbetter Point (Ocean Area 2):
July 1st through earlier of August 21 or a subarea guideline of 16,600 Chinook.
Seven days per week. All salmon except coho; one fish per day. Chinook minimum size limit of 24 inches total length (B). See gear restrictions and definitions (C.2, C.3). Grays Harbor Control Zone closed beginning August 8 (C.4.b). In-season management may be used to sustain season length and keep harvest within the overall Chinook and coho recreational TACs for north of Cape Falcon.

This means that Willapa Bay Marine Area 2.1 will not begin until July 1st under Ocean Area 2 Rules (as opposed to previous years where the start date was sometime in May) and the retention is only one fish per day, release all coho.

Just wanted to pass on the information.
Thanks. Barbara
_________________________
Dazed and confused.............the fog is closing in

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#955810 - 04/16/16 05:22 AM Re: J F C ! ! ! [Re: Rivrguy]
Rivrguy Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 03/03/09
Posts: 4399
Loc: Somewhere on the planet,I hope

Mike set this out for us to look at. This is the non treaty seasons being discussed with the QIN. Not set in stone only talking guys.





2016 Grays Harbor Fall Non-Treaty Terminal Area Planning Model
2016 Runsize with 2016 Public proposal, Preliminary and Subject to Change 032416
Model Run Description Preseason planning 03/24/2016
PFMC Option # 2
FRAM Run # 1617

Fishery Description
Sport
Marine 2.2 Dates Bag Limit
Area 2D only Oct 1-Nov 30 1 Adult bag: release wild Chinook
Area 2C only Aug 1 - Sept 16 2 adults, release wild oho.

Chehalis River Mouth to Hwy 6 April 16 - June 30 1 Adult bag:
Chehalis River Mouth to Porter Aug 1-Sept 15 : Release adult salmon
Sept 16-Jan 31 1 Adult bag: Release wild Chinook and wild Coho

Chehalis River Porter up to High Bridge Sept 16-Jan 31 1 Adult bag: Release wild Chinook and wild Coho
0 0
Hwy 6 to high bridge

Hoquiam Closed 0

Wishkah Oct 1-Dec 31 1 Adult bag: release Chinook and wild Coho


Wynoochee Oct 1-Nov 30 1 Adult bag: Release Chinook and wild Coho

Satsop Oct 1-Dec 31 1 Adult bag: Release wild Chinook and wild Coho
0 0

Black River Closed 0

Skookumchuck Oct. 1-Dec 31 1 Adult bag: release Chinook and wild Coho


Newaukum Oct. 1-Dec 31 1 Adult bag: release Chinook and wild Coho

Elk and Johns Closed 0

Humptulips River FW Sept. 1-Sept 30 2 Adult bag: 1 may be a wild Chinook, release wild Coho
Oct 1-Nov 15 2 Adult bag: 1 may be a Chinook, release wild Coho
Nov 16-Jan 31 1 Adult bag: release Chinook and wild Coho
Commercial Dates # days Details
Area 2A/2D 43 Oct 16, 2016 0 12 hr days, live boxes, short soak, release wild Chinook
44 Oct 23, 2016 3 12 hr days, live boxes, short soak, release wild Chinook

Area 2C 43 Oct 16, 2016 2 16 hr days, live boxes, short soak, release wild Coho
44 Oct 23, 2016 2 12 hr days, live boxes, short soak, release wild Coho
_________________________
Dazed and confused.............the fog is closing in

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#955815 - 04/16/16 11:07 AM Re: J F C ! ! ! [Re: Rivrguy]
Rivrguy Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 03/03/09
Posts: 4399
Loc: Somewhere on the planet,I hope

Now for something different and I would have loved to see the cops face!


http://www.bdoutdoors.com/living-fossil-caught-with-huge-surprise-inside/
_________________________
Dazed and confused.............the fog is closing in

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#955825 - 04/16/16 03:39 PM Re: J F C ! ! ! [Re: Rivrguy]
CedarR Offline
Repeat Spawner

Registered: 08/04/99
Posts: 1431
Loc: Olympia, WA
Pretty tall tale with a dateline of April 1, 2016.

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#955841 - 04/17/16 07:07 AM Re: J F C ! ! ! [Re: CedarR]
Rivrguy Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 03/03/09
Posts: 4399
Loc: Somewhere on the planet,I hope

BD and others always run the A 1 thing for fun. This one had a lot more effort put into it and was well done. I thought it would take longer to catch the date. I must be slowing down.
_________________________
Dazed and confused.............the fog is closing in

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#955844 - 04/17/16 07:38 AM Re: J F C ! ! ! [Re: Rivrguy]
Chum Man Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 11/07/99
Posts: 2685
Loc: Yelmish
Originally Posted By: Rivrguy

The first change I want to point out is on the North Nemah River. Currently there are 4 sections in the pamphlet and the second section (from bridge on Nemah Valley Rd to bridge at Nemah Hatchery) does NOT have salmon rules. This year we are considering splitting that second section into 3 smaller sections and each section will have different rules.

1. Bridge on Nemah Valley Rd. upstream to WDFW property line approx. 1.74 miles
a. Will remain closed to salmon (All Game Fish rules only)
2. WDFW property line upstream approx. 160 feet to the bridge at the Nemah Hatchery
a. Will be for Seniors Only (70 years+), Aug. 16 – Jan. 31
3. The bridge at the Nemah Hatchery upstream to the Nemah Hatchery weir
a. Will be for Seniors (70 year+) and ADA access Only, Aug. 16 – Jan. 31
b. The 400 foot closed water restriction will be removed.

Also, there are sections on the Willapa River (Hwy 6 upstream to Fork Creek) and Naselle River (Hwy 4 Bridge upstream to hatchery) that did not open for Salmon until September 16th. These fisheries when open during Chinook timing have been problematic in the past. While this model run has these sections open Aug. 16th through January 31st with a 4 fish adult bag, some consideration should be given to reducing this bag limit to a 2 fish adult bag in these sections to try to minimize some of the issues that have occurred in these areas historically. Additionally, the 400ft closed water restriction downstream from the weir on the Naselle River would be changed to 300 feet.

that sort of strikes a nerve with me. these rivers all have fairly lousy bank access, and in the case of the north nemah, the entire section open to salmon fishing is heavily posted private land. the areas with closures are all in the more accessible reaches. they don't mention the "problems" but i'm just assuming it's the snagging that goes on because of lack of enforcement.

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#955846 - 04/17/16 08:08 AM Re: J F C ! ! ! [Re: eyeFISH]
jgreen Offline
Returning Adult

Registered: 04/18/12
Posts: 311
Loc: Elma, WA
Opening the Satsop in October makes no sense...why open later when the wild fish encounters go up? I usually don't start encountering a good number of will Coho until Mid October. The last two years have seen plenty of fish in the usual opening around September 15th. Besides river levels, whats the advantage to opening later? Just curious.

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#955851 - 04/17/16 09:02 AM Re: J F C ! ! ! [Re: jgreen]
Rivrguy Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 03/03/09
Posts: 4399
Loc: Somewhere on the planet,I hope

We only have so many impacts ( dead fish be it C&R or keep ) so I imagine you could burn up the share before the Nov & late runs.
_________________________
Dazed and confused.............the fog is closing in

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