Ok, So I gave in and I bought a freshwater license when I swore that I wasn't going to . As painful as it was giving the state money for nothing I thought what the hey I can at least plunk by the house this summer .
While sitting at home last night browsing through the new book of regs I found out that the Skagit River closes the 16th of July and don't open again till mid December. That should be just in time to fish for non existent hatchery steelhead that they don't plant any more and that's only for 6 weeks , then it closes again. Ten weeks of fishing for the entire year WOW what a screaming deal that is.
Am I just living under a rock or has there not been much mention about this closure ? Screwed again I guess.
I passed on buying a saltwater license to fish halibut this year for the first time in about 15 years . I usually start prepping for halibut in Feb and spend at least a couple thousand $ getting the boat ready with tabs ,bait, gear, new flares ,launch passes , Discovery passes and such ,that's not including about $300 a day for gas, moorage munchies and the usual stuff to fish . I just couldn't justify doing it for 3 days of fishing. Instead I took all that money and installed a 500 foot long zip line with a 40 ft. drop for the adults and a separate 150 foot long run for the grandkids.
I might have to update my insurance but at least the state didn't get it .

The closure was expected. It was discussed at the North of Falcon meeting at Mill Creek in March. I also believe the Stilly is closed as well unless there was a change. Some low Salmon runs returning.

Yeah the stilly is closed during the peak salmon timing. It's open for bug chucking for gamefish now or opens here soon.

Plunkers unite.....

https://fortress.wa.gov/dfw/erules/efishrules/erule.jsp?id=1984

If the forecasts hold true in both of the North S rivers we should be more concerned about preserving those stocks and less concerned about days on the water.

The forecast for the Stilliguamish is HORRIFYING.

Horrifying? That's a bit much. Burning to death would be horrifying. Low fish returns? Sad. Concerning. Worrisome. Sure, but not horrifying.

FWIW moved to a residence close to the Stilly and Skagit almost 20 years ago now and IMHO it has gone down hill particularly for Pinks the last 4 cycles. There was a time it was loaded and fish waiting to make the turn up Pilchuck Creek had to take a number to wait their turn. Not so much anymore... I do get the whole cycle thing but 2015 was truly horrible! Warm temps and no fish to be seen and a number of large scouring events and the OSO slide did not do the river any favors. Fingers crossed it will rebound BUT do believe it will take a loooooooong time! Skagit's a different story... Used to run a sled up above Rockport and the biomass of Pinks was astounding as in top to bottom! Where did they all go? Pink numbers were way off in AK last year to so maybe it's all part of a down cycle to. Hopefully Mother Nature will smile upon us again before my number gets called to leave the Blue Orb!

GodLovesUgly-

According to WDFW's web site the 2017 Stillaguamish coho was 9,142 adults to Washington waters. While that is a concerning forecast not sure that I would go so far as to call it horrifying.

The coho escapement base for the Stillaguamish goes back to 1965. Excluding what was seen in 2015 the escapement in the basin has been at or below 9,000 spawners eight times. While I'm sure that the co-managers what to see escapements that low the evidence is that the population has rebounded for that sort of poor escapements.

If the co-managers thought that the forecast was so horrific why would they agree to a suit of fisheries that is expected to kill 7.5% of the run?

I would understand and support the closure of the Stillaguamish basin to recreational salmon fishing in 2017 but why the fishing for the game fish species? How is it that game fish seasons are closed in a salmon season setting process? Even worst those seasons were done without any meaningful opportunity for public input and comment; a significant break with a more than 75 year procedure for setting game fish season in this state.

If the co-managers are going to allow a 7.5% impact on the Stillaguamish coho to access other stocks of Chinook and coho in mixed stock fisheries why can some of that impact be used for game fish?

More to the point of that 7.5% co-manager allowed impact only 1.6% (21.3% of the total) is attributed to non-treaty fisheries. If indeed the co-managers think things are so horrific why are the tribal impacts as low as the non-treaty impacts? On the surface it looks as if the Stillaguamish and Skagit game fish season were closed to provide additional impacts of stocks of concern for tribal fishery use.

The real question is this strategy of limiting fishing for game fish (at least during the summer period) to only those periods when there are harvestable salmon available the new management paradigm? If so is that paradigm going to be limited to north Puget Sound, all of Puget Sound or expanded to the rest of the State's anadromous waters? Experience shows that when new management door is opened a crack the door rarely shuts again and typically is pushed open further.

Call me concern and disappointed. WDFW seems to send a clear message that if I'm interested in fishing for species like sea-run cutthroat and similar fisheries I best play to take my recreational dollars elsewhere.

curt

the new slogan of the recreational salmon fishermen "poached salmon... its what's for dinner"

According to the model run, closing the Stilly to summer steelhead and cutthroat fishing will save 1.5 coho salmon this year. If 7.5% of the Stilly coho run can be sacrificed to incidental take for other marine salmon fisheries to occur, it doesn't pass the red face test to say that risking 1.5 coho to incidental take in order to have the usual and normal summer and fall recreational gamefish fisheries is too much.

O yes it does, Salmo. We saved that 1.5 fish. It's conservation; we even get a Merit Badge for it. Each fish is important. Isn't that why, if one harvestable fish is left, we open a fishery for it? Actually, while I don't think I have seen a fishery for 1, I have seen regs to go after 10.

In WDFW's eyes, the only real fisheries are marine mixed stock salmon fisheries. If there was some way to have "full" marine fisheries I think they'd gladly give FW to the Tribes.

That is obvious a tough blow for those that enjoy fishing gamefish on the Stilly and Skagit.
So what is the game plan knowing those fisheries are closed?
Sit on the sidelines or explore other opportunities or areas that are available in the state to target gamefish such as searun cutthroat?
SF

CM-

That minimal impact associated with a game fish season on the Stillaguamish this year was not saved by not fishing. Instead those impacts were transferred/used for additional salmon fishing - no fish saved!

The co-managers (tribes and Department of salmon) clearly agreed those impacts were better used in a salmon fisheries targeting hatchery Chinook and/or coho.

I do agree with you that FW fisheries; especially target trout/steelhead fisheries are not a priority.

Stonefish -
For more than 35 years I have enjoyed targeting game fish on both the Skagit and Stillaguamish. In the period between the middle of July to the end of November I have typically fish those waters 20 to 40 times a season. These closure leave a major hole in my fishing calendar. For the fly angler looking to target wild indigenous trout those basins offer an unique opportunity combining diversity of fishing and ease of access while producing results with outstanding quantity and quality of fish encountered. I recognize that match those freshwater opportunities are not likely to be matched in north America.

Just returned from a trip BC and will likely continue to spend increasing amount of my recreational dollars out of state (BC and/or Montana) with less fishing in this State. Depending on what develops on the fishing front in the next few months I may expand my fishing some here in Washington but expect to fish less than normal.

Part of that time will be spend working on management issues with the hopes that others will not experience the pain I feel from the situation on my home waters.

Curt

Curt,
I read in your previous post about taking your dollars elsewhere.
I get that, but even as a retired person it isn't likely you can spend all of your fishing time in Montana or BC.
My question was more about what are folks going to do to fill the void locally?
Are they going to fish somewhere else locally or sit on the sidelines.

While you can't fish the Skagit and Stilly for your beloved cutthroat, it isn't as if MA's 8.1 or 8.2 are closed to fishing for gamefish. There are some nice fish around out there right now.
I know the gamefish closures are a [Bleeeeep!] deal. I felt the same about what happened last year in the salt after fishing the sound for 50+ years.
I personally don't think things will get any better for either of those rivers until at least 2019, based on what happened with the 2015 salmon returns.

Personally I'm going to keep fishing locally regardless, even if my favorite fisheries are shut down. It might not be exactly what I want to fish for or where I want to fish, but I'll be fishing.
SF

I tend to agree with Curt. There are fisheries that I like to participate in and it is almost all freshwater and (ideally) walk and wade. I really don't like fishing from boats very much. Saltwater fishing in WA (Westport, Puget Sound, Hood Canal) have been generally colossal wastes of time. Great birding, [Bleeeeep!] fishing.

I'm retired and there are plenty of fun things to do besides fishing. So, when I go fishing I have high expectations for the experience. And, that is hard to find here but it easier out of state.

http://wdfw.wa.gov/fishing/tribal/2017-18agreement.pdf

Page 99.

I suspect Jennifer believes that by closing the August Stilly fishery, the impacts on salmonoids will be reduced. In fact, the absence of law-abiding flea-flickers will make the N. Fork much more attractive to resident poachers, which are prolific, don't get me started, sheesh.

Decision, to me, seems based less in biology than in the inability of WDFW enforcement to control rampant poaching.

Can't afford BC or Montana. Do Ross large-arbor reels fetch anything on ebay anymore?

Stonefish-
I ready admit that I'm a fishaholic and will continue to fish; just not as much as normal. I have and do fished for a wide variety of fishes and will likely spend some time fishing for kokanee, bass, salmon in the salt; heck might even make a trip to the east side for carp. There a fishaholic like myself there are no end to potential opportunities however none of those present the world class fishing that I find in the Skagit basin.

What is particular galling is that my fishing records/experience shows that on years when coho are closed on my local waters I encounter less than one coho a year. Assuming a 10% hooking mortality (and I doubt that it is that high given the gear I use) on the Skagit I might catch 2,000 to 3,000 "trout" for every coho that die. Are there many fisheries with that low of by-catch?

The real concern is not whether I fish or not but rather what will happen to the more casual angler. The concern is that as they loss fishing opportunities the switch to other activities and many will likely will never return to the sport. Can WDFW afford to continue to see an eroding of its user based? especially when that is self induced?

Without recruiting new anglers or keeping new anglers engaged the sport is doom.

Curt

Curt's right I fear. With the current generation living in the cyberworld, who will care for our natural resources.... let alone advocate for sportsfishing. Especially when there's not much left to fight for. Or no fisheries to get anyone excited about.

At this rate, the dinosaurs will die off unfortunately.

I think a big problem at WDFW, too, is that the staff doesn't fish these fisheries. Back when Curt and I were working, fishing was part of the job; a flared was almost required as a "sampling device".

Opening Day used to be "all hands" monitoring lakes, not to mention the intense sampling before OD to make sure something was there.

It bothers me a lot that WDFW pushes boat-based fishing; how are newcomers supposed to get started? No way in hell I'm buying a boat on the possibility I might enjoy fishing. They are catering to the advanced angler with all sorts of gear, electronics, etc. The beginner? Nope.

Curt,
There are always going to be casual anglers.
All you need to do is look at odd year salmon fishing. When there are huge numbers of humpies and the catching is easy, people come out of the woodwork.
Where are those same people went is isn't easy?

Carcassman,
It is hard to believe all your saltwater experiences in this state have been that negative.
As far as WDFW pushing boat-based fishing, you certainly don't need a boat to catch salmon in the salt, let alone fish for freshwater species.
In fact, there are shore based only fishing regs in effect for this years saltwater salmon season. Come Sept 5th, a lot of that fancy boat gear will of no use. A sad truth in my opinion.
If people can't have the gumption to go out and explore and learn angling techniques, I'm not sure the state is missing out on that much.
Besides having mentors, how'd you do it well before the Internet?

BFD,
I'm a dinosaur....but I'm going to have a lot of fun before I die off.
SF

yeah, me too... I've only witnessed a gillnet deployed by shore bound anglers once; right below the highway 18 bridge on the green...

in fact the lack of fish in hood canal are forcing gillnetters to use multiple kicker boats to herd the fish toward the net.

Maybe it is a matter of following the money. Unfortunately for us that like the small, less crowded, quality fisheries, we just don't generate enough revenue in the community for them to care about us. Lets face it, a boat owner with a few friends will spend an awful lot of money for a day of fishing the salt. I think they are so busy watching the dollar signs on their computers that they have forgotten about the small fisheries and beginners.

I do find it irionic that they will close the Stilly and Skagit to fishing for gamefish during the summer and fall but leave the saltwater areas open with what could be a higher incidental catch of salmon by those targeting searun cutts. Perhaps a side effect of the people making the decisions not knowing anything about the fisheries they are affecting.

Brent,
How many adult salmon have you caught in the salt while targeting searun cutthroat?
SF

Doesn't have to be adult. There are, at times, lots of coho available to sea-run anglers and those coho respond to c&r same as any other fish. Some die. I'd suggest it is more than are taken in a summer CT fishery in the Skagit and Stilly.

Stoney,
I like your glass half full approach to being active in exploring different fisheries and being open minded about targeting other species, but where do you draw the line and stop supporting WDFW until things improve?

As a trout fisherman, I've watched many streams being closed to what was once superb resident rainbow/cutt fisheries that also had anadromous species present. Very similar to the Stilly/Skagit issue. I'm not talking about catching smolts, but residents which occasionally reached 14-16." Fun on a 3wt! The issue is just now starting to effect the SRC crowd. The bottom line is WDFW doesn't give a [Bleeeeep!] about river trout fishing. Not realizing that if it's managed correctly along with anadromous species, could be every bit as good as the dry states. We just don't have the density and biomass to support quantity like say the Madison...

Brent is correct about follow the $.... Salmon fisheries and especially saltwater salmon fisheries garner the most attention. The small, remote, quality fishing experience gets shut down while opening day planter lakes, humpies, and quota based openers that generate circus atmospheres are promoted. All of us know how to buck the trend and find out of the way fishing, however it's getting harder to do with less opportunity.

It would be so much easier if they would just shut down all river fishing, aside from a few quota based openers that helped reduce hatchery salmon as needed and focus angling to lakes and saltwater. It's an easy sell to the general public and probably several conservation groups to leave the freshwater environment alone to protect spawners and water quality, and maintain pure genetics by not planting fish. Hell, alot of fisherman would drink that kool-aid!

After all......Washington is loaded with quality fishing if you think outside the Salmon and Steelhead box. lol

A lot has to due with fishing locations.
The fall and winter before last,I took 31 trips to the canal to fish searuns and encountered one coho. If a person wants to catch coho while searun fishing, there are certain beaches that would offer better opportunities to do so. With a bit of knowledge, you can certainly reduce the chance of coho encounters.
I do agree some of those coho will die.

Bent,
I hear you about the trout fishing. One of my favorite streams is now closed. That our local streams can't grow large resident trout due to lack of bug hatches is bs.
Where I've been fishing this winter and spring I've encountered exactly two other anglers fishing that I didn't know. I've enjoyed the lack of pressure, good catches and the experience.
Has WDFW done a poor job of managing our resources. No doudt, but I'm not going to let them kill my desire to get out and fish.
At this point in my life, I'd rather enjoy my time on the water then dwell on the negative.
I'll continue to make calls, write emails etc to let people know my thoughts on our fisheries management.
SF

Bent -

Western Washington will NEVER reach the quality of in-river trout fishing that the warmer dry states do. Scouring floods, little sunshine and cold summers equals pretty much zero in-river bug life here. That's Ma Nature's call and has nothing to do with what the WDFW does or doesn't do. That's why the Yak is about the best this state will ever offer. Controlled flows and HOT during the summer to grow the bugs big and juicy. That's ALL of the rivers in the dry states. God, I miss banging Hoppers into the grass on a hot summer evening.

I'm jealous of all the guys that were raised here and got to fish for Salmon and Steelhead during the "good old days", but during that time I was pounding to CO / WY / MT / UT Blue and Gold Medal waters (and zippers that were and still are....just mind boggling). I remember one backpacking trip where I set up on an alpine lake and stream and proceeded to land over (500+) 14" - 18" Brookies in a single day without another soul in sight for 25 miles. So conversely, I've had some guys from here get jealous of me and my "good old days". Simply put, there is no comparison for regular trout fishing. So the guys that want that are going to leave the state. You might as well wish we had better Marlin fishing up here so guys don't travel to Kona or Key West. You go to where the fish you want to catch are. Which is why Washington is no longer a true S&S destination state and everyone goes to Alaska (to catch our fish that should be caught here).

I'm just kinda pissed because I SPECIFICALLY moved here just to fish for BIG ocean going fish, which I couldn't do growing up in CO. I just hit the very, very end tail of it. I've seen a HUGE difference between 2005 and now. I should have kept going further north I guess....

Concrete example comparing a common fish found in both states: The average Kokanee in western WA are like 8" to 14". The average Kokanee coming out of 11 Mile are 3 pounds. Horsetooth: 3 pounds. Blue Mesa: 4-5 pounds. Flaming Gorge: an ungodly 5+ pounds and up. These are the average sized fish. Right now, the Kokanee world record is out Oregun's dry side. Flaming Gorge should break that in the next couple of years - IMO.

Nick,

I agree that western wa will never rival the dry states in quantity, however all the elements are in place for sustainable river trout fisheries for SRC, Rez cutts and bows. Our trout derive their nutrients in the former of insect life AND nutrients carried in by salmon and other anadromous species! Take a look at the rainbow fishing in AK, I would put that up against anything in MT, CO, Wy, etc.... We have the same strain of rainbows here, they just have a hard time reaching their potential. There are very big resident fish in our S-Rivers. Ask anyone who chases summer steelhead religiously and they'll tell you about some of our big residential trout. When I lived 5 min from the Sky i would catch around 50+ resident rainbows a summer, most 12-16" with the occasional 20"+. I wasn't targeting them either. The Yakima has anadromous fish AND a great trout fishery! So does a bunch of rivers in Idaho.

Ahhhhhhhh the days of going out in mid September and catching chrome coho, summer steel, and finishing off the day with the fly rod on SRC.... Tough to impossible to beat that

There are some nice in-river fish here to be certain.

I'd agree with MOST that except that part about Alaska rainbows. I can show you some places in the lower 48 that simply CRUSH in quality and quantity of big rainbows / browns / brookies / cutties and goldens. I'm the current Colorado Golden Trout Record Holder (4.2 lbs), it's just that I caught that particular fish in Wyoming.

I have a book titled "Gordie Frear's Northwest FISHING GUIDE and Hunting Guide"

There is a page with the following title "STEELHEAD CATCH DURING 1965", Winter numbers

#1 Skagit ..........20,030
2 Green ..........11,666
3 Cowlitz.........10,317
4 Puyallup.........8,566, then it goes on to list the top 25 Rivers in the State......

Most on the board don't remember, or not born yet the hay days of the "Mighty Skagit", with lots of really big salmon, and lots of them...

Nick -
There are many factors that influence the potential of a population to achieve "quality" size.

Just one example is the kokanee that you mentioned. IN addition to the productivity of the water the density kokanee/acre) is a huge driver in the ultimate average size of mature kokanee. Wallowa has produced the world record kokanee in 2011 (an astounding fish of 9.7#s). In 2008 it was estimated that Wallowa had 70,000 kokanee and as a result went through a several year period of producing exception size fish. By 2014 the numbers were up to 900,000 and the average size fell to 8 to 9 inches.

While the "trout" of our local rivers will always have a hard time competing with some of the tail waters or larger lakes outside of the region. Thanks to the influence of salmon returns and access to the sound (for fish like sea-run cutthroat and bull trout) the quality of the "trout" of the Skagit would hold their own on most waters and more importantly are among the best in this State. Since the start of this century the north Sound rivers (Nooksack, Skagit, Stillaguamish, and Snohomish) have seen average salmon escapements of more than a 1,000 fish/mile.

Unlike the home of your record Golden trout the Skagit system has excellent access. By my count over the 125 miles of the main stem Skagit/Sauk there are at least 20 free launches where one can launch a raft, drift boat or in many locations a power boat. Also unlike so many "named" fisheries the "trout" of the Skagit are native species that are essentially genetically intact. Those trout can be found in abundances that while below what one find in other waters the seasonal nature of those "trout" behaviors are such where spectacular fishing can be found. While the sea-runs don't get as large as some other species the Skagit does produce trophy size individuals (fish in excess of 20 inches) as regularly as any Washington stream that I'm familiar and at the same time support some exceptional catch/rates. The anadromous bull trout exhibit exceptional growth rates; reaching maturity at age 4 at lengths of 18 to 20 inches and takes to salmon and their longevity can reach remarkable sizes (a fortunate angler might encounter dozens of bull trout in a single day who size would be measured in pounds and not inches). Thanks to recent enlighten management we are seeing increasing numbers of resident rainbows in the basin that have decent growth rates and reach sizes rarely seen on the Yakima.

For the angler that has paid their dues the Skagit not only produces quality size fish thanks to the variety of species and habitat types they can expect good catch rates during the entire period from now through November.

I suppose I'll to be satisfied with my memories of what once was. However unlike the steelhead fishing Bent metal referred to the Skagit fishery trout fishery maybe a thing of the past not due to lack of fish but rather because managers do not value the opportunity. The overall abundance of the Skagit sea-runs, bull trout and resident rainbows may currently be at abundances that none of us born after WWII have never seen; a comment one rarely hears in regard to salmonid populations of the region.

Curt

Thanks Curt - that's a good overview. I admit that I don't know the Skagit system all that much. I suppose the reason for the size, growth rate and quantity of Skagit trout is that they are feeding on S&S eggs and fry? Or is there another reason?

I'd love to catch the new Montana state record Bull trout on the Skagit if it were ever open - sounds fun!

Nick -
The salmon eggs, carcasses and fry are only part of the story of the Skagit "trout" and their growth.

For those that reside in freshwater much or all of their lives salmon products are key food sources. This is especially true of the larger resident rainbows who once they reach their third year have full access to those products and are adept at taking advantage of that resource. Some of those rainbows can reach up to 10 years of age and respectable sizes. They can add significant poundage during years with high salmon escapements and favorable flows.

The bull trout dive their strategies with some being year-round stream residents while others make the journey to the salt to take advantage of abundant forage fish (smelt, shiner perch, etc.). Those fish that go to the salt tend to grow at faster rates reaching 20 inches one to two years earlier than the full time residents. An interesting side not is that those life histories are not fixed and it is common for resident fish to go to the salt and fish with previous anadromous behaviors to remain in the river for a year or more.

The sea-run gain much of their grow from the salt as well though interestedly they do not achieve the kinds of growth of the bull typically taking at least 8 or 9 years to reach 20 inches.

These complex and diverse behaviors of the Skagit "trout" produce some unique fish and interesting fishing challenges.

BTW - I see that the Montana state record bull trout is more than a century old. I can report with certainty that the Skagit system produces fish that would challenge that record fish.

Curt

Makes sense.

Based on your notes on the Bull's life history, would that behavior possibly be linked to available food sources (positive or negative)? I.e. on good fry / smolt escapement years, do the Bulls set up shop for longer periods in the lower river / estuary areas and on poor years head out to sea for dinner? Is there a studied correlation? Just curious and interested...

The Shuswap Lake system in the Fraser is renowned for its rainbows. Lots of them, and large. There were some who believed that the cyclic dominance in that system was maintained by trout predation. Maybe. But also of interest is that dominant run (1 in 4) provided the food to drive the trout population. In the other three years they didn't have enough fish to support themselves.

The Gerrard Rainbow (a huge resident Kamloops/redband) got that way gorging on kokanee. Then, mysids were introduced and they crashed the kokanee. Experiments were done to fertilize the lake to provide food for the kokanee. It worked. They rebounded quickly. It took 5 more years for a signal to show up in the trout. Sometimes, it takes time.

I have caught 2 chinook while cutt fishing in the salt off of Camano. This was when I was a kid in the early 90's and one was an adult of about 20lbs(it was a long time ago and I was little😉) and the other was about an 18" "blackmouth", both caught trolling a #2 half/half dicknite. I have never landed a salmon fishing for cutts in the river, but that has all been fly fishing and usually with a floating line. I can only think of one coho that I hooked and quickly lost in the lower Stilly.

Nick -
The region's bull trout are interesting critters that exhibit complex behaviors that a driven by forage and habitat needs. As a result one may find different age classes and population segments behaving differently.

While without a doubt the bull trout life history switches noted earlier is in at least part drive by changes in food availability (either in in total or seasonally) there can be a habitat component as well. For example the river dwelling (fluvial life history) during much of their time in the river a tied to large pools (a home base if you will). As the quality or amount of that habitat changes (via floods?) one would expect to see the bull trout adapt.

Just another illustration of what makes the Skagit "trout" and the fishing for them so interesting.

Curt