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#1059329 - 03/18/22 10:46 AM Re: FISHINGTHECHEHALIS.NET *** [Re: ]
cohoangler Offline
Three Time Spawner

Registered: 12/29/99
Posts: 1604
Loc: Vancouver, Washington
Thanks. I fixed it......

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#1059330 - 03/18/22 11:09 AM Re: FISHINGTHECHEHALIS.NET [Re: cohoangler]
Rivrguy Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 03/03/09
Posts: 4399
Loc: Somewhere on the planet,I hope

On a more pleasant note staff ( Kim ) sent the first 2022 Harvest model out. It is based on last years seasons this years forecast and it allows one to look at just where we are compared to last year on paper. If your not on my mailing list and want it PM me. For those that hate models all harvesters combined ( last years schedule this years forecasted runs ) leave 80,878 expected escapement and the NT share at 4.93% which is below last years which was around 4.99%.
_________________________
Dazed and confused.............the fog is closing in

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#1059331 - 03/18/22 11:34 AM Re: FISHINGTHECHEHALIS.NET [Re: eyeFISH]
bobrr
Unregistered


So I suspect we will have the same seasons in the bay and river as last year ? I'd like to see the hatchery only restriction lifted above the bridge so the up river fishers don't get screwed again. The opening of Oct. 1st in the bay should go back to last week in Sept. again.

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#1059332 - 03/18/22 03:26 PM Re: FISHINGTHECHEHALIS.NET [Re: eyeFISH]
fish4brains Offline
Dah Rivah Stinkah Pink Mastah

Registered: 08/23/06
Posts: 6193
Loc: zipper
aren't we in the penalty box again this year?
_________________________
...
Propping up an obsolete fishing industry at the expense of sound fisheries management is irresponsible. -Sg



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#1059334 - 03/18/22 07:43 PM Re: FISHINGTHECHEHALIS.NET [Re: fish4brains]
Rivrguy Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 03/03/09
Posts: 4399
Loc: Somewhere on the planet,I hope

Yes we are.
_________________________
Dazed and confused.............the fog is closing in

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#1059336 - 03/21/22 07:25 AM Re: FISHINGTHECHEHALIS.NET [Re: Rivrguy]
Rivrguy Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 03/03/09
Posts: 4399
Loc: Somewhere on the planet,I hope
Just hit something interesting. I tried to forward the e mail below and it is nearly impossible. So be aware even ZOOM is involved in trying to limit public involvement.


This is ZOOM email regarding the March 21st GH NOF meeting and outlines how to sign in.

Soooo to some questions: Yup they will censor you if they do not like your question or how you ask it. Best way to deal with that is do a conference text with several folks at the same time. In other words pool your resources that way if they mute one of you another can come right back at them.

Why are these guys hiding in the bunker? Well as I have said before they are not a Steve Thiesfeld (damn I miss that guy) or Jim Scott but as a friend of mine says WDFW Lifers . So my advice is to direct your questions to Mike or Kim as any other staffer is just going to run out the company line and little else. It is my mind that they feel comfortable in a structure that direct interface with the public is not required. I doubt that many in WDFW even recognize that they are just fueling the well of distrust and doubts of integrity / honesty.

I urge you all to tune and see what is happening.

Dave



This is a reminder that "Grays Harbor Fisheries Discussion" will begin in 1 day on:
Date Time: Mar 21, 2022 06:00 PM Pacific Time (US and Canada)

Join from a PC, Mac, iPad, iPhone or Android device:
Click Here to Join
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You can cancel your registration at any time.


Edited by Rivrguy (03/21/22 07:42 AM)
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#1059337 - 03/21/22 10:25 AM Re: FISHINGTHECHEHALIS.NET [Re: eyeFISH]
Carcassman Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 11/21/07
Posts: 7440
Loc: Olema,California,Planet Earth
Geez, it used to be different. Near the end of my sentence, I was asked, by my boss, to direct a question to the Director that was intended as an eye poke to a lifer. We got the answer we wante, too. My, how it has disintegrated.

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#1059338 - 03/21/22 11:01 AM Re: FISHINGTHECHEHALIS.NET [Re: Carcassman]
Rivrguy Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 03/03/09
Posts: 4399
Loc: Somewhere on the planet,I hope
One of the Commissioners once said that WDFW had the worst case of battered wife syndrome she had ever seen. Took a bit for me to get past the female designation to get my arms around it was the behavior she was talking about. I thought she summed it up rather well.
_________________________
Dazed and confused.............the fog is closing in

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#1059339 - 03/21/22 11:33 AM Re: FISHINGTHECHEHALIS.NET [Re: eyeFISH]
Carcassman Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 11/21/07
Posts: 7440
Loc: Olema,California,Planet Earth
Kinda makes sense. There was a very high value placed on going along. Some of the batterers could not understand resistance to them.

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#1059340 - 03/21/22 12:13 PM Re: FISHINGTHECHEHALIS.NET [Re: Rivrguy]
bobrr
Unregistered


Originally Posted By: Rivrguy
One of the Commissioners once said that WDFW had the worst case of battered wife syndrome she had ever seen. Took a bit for me to get past the female designation to get my arms around it was the behavior she was talking about. I thought she summed it up rather well.


Aren't you talking about Miranda Wecker? One of the best leaders of the wildlife commission ever?

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#1059341 - 03/22/22 04:00 AM Re: FISHINGTHECHEHALIS.NET [Re: ]
Rivrguy Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 03/03/09
Posts: 4399
Loc: Somewhere on the planet,I hope


https://wdfw.wa.gov/get-involved/calenda...-public-meeting

Last nights NOF Grays Harbor is done and the link above is to the materials and presentations. It was mostly Recs I think but I did hear the number 47 for participants and guides were well represented as one would expect. Commercials on the other hand not much but as staff does not tell you who the participants are one does not really know. Besides most years commercials prefer to work behind the scenes or at the Commission level.

I did not receive the meeting information until 2:48 PM for a 6:00 PM meeting which is not really what one call expectable, as several days in advance is the norm. Also models were not provided which quite frankly are needed to make heads or tails out of impacts.

Things that are likely to happen are standing down 3/5 and increased harvest for all NT fisheries. That is the one thing that stood as all I heard was folks wanting to kill fish and hardly a thought about conservation and that was from the Recs as the NT Commercials were pretty much not speaking if present at all.
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Dazed and confused.............the fog is closing in

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#1059342 - 03/22/22 07:17 AM Re: FISHINGTHECHEHALIS.NET [Re: eyeFISH]
bobrr
Unregistered


I like to think that the state recognized that the runs last year were larger then the seasons allowed and that they are setting seasons more in line with increased run projection. Rains are coming in earlier and with that the runs are coming up river earlier.

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#1059343 - 03/22/22 07:49 AM Re: FISHINGTHECHEHALIS.NET [Re: eyeFISH]
Carcassman Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 11/21/07
Posts: 7440
Loc: Olema,California,Planet Earth
The seasons, especially since the harvests are shared, are always based on the most recent projection. The problem is that the managers no longer do in-season updating which in the past allowed for in-season correction based on better information.

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#1059344 - 03/22/22 09:10 AM Re: FISHINGTHECHEHALIS.NET [Re: ]
Rivrguy Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 03/03/09
Posts: 4399
Loc: Somewhere on the planet,I hope
With Coho we make escapement in years that we are on the up side of the cycles and do not on the down side of the cycle. If one looked at the runs over time they are never static. Almost always a up cycle for a period of time, peak and then down. As I said upside of the cycle the run is under forecasted and down side over forecasted. The number of years in a complete cycle can and does vary but not the natural cycle.

Nothing new here been that way for a very long time. As to the patterns of how the fish enter the bay and rivers it is about rain inland, time of year for bay. Keep in mind the data showing when Coho enter the system is based upon harvest not much else. They will stage up someplace in the basin until flows are such they can spawn. With the current management of the state and QIN we are very dependent on the blow out rains in the first part of Nov when nobody fishes to make escapements.

This results in years like this, OK but not great. This is because 60% of the basin (lower tribs) did NOT make much more than 50% of escapement for this brood year. If the runs had not been over harvested our returns this year would have much larger. The only way this changes if the up cycle changes with a several year peak or flatter curve both upside and down OR the comanagers show some sanity and reduce the overall Chehalis Basin harvest rate. Rather simple really but few will see past "I want to kill a fish!"

So what we have had the last 10 years is likely what the foreseeable future looks like. Mediocre runs driven by continuous over harvest ! Like I said it is simple enough as this is not rocket science just simple cause and effect.





Edited by Rivrguy (03/23/22 11:26 AM)
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Dazed and confused.............the fog is closing in

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#1059345 - 03/22/22 10:06 AM Re: FISHINGTHECHEHALIS.NET [Re: eyeFISH]
Carcassman Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 11/21/07
Posts: 7440
Loc: Olema,California,Planet Earth
There is some interesting data out of AK dealing with pinks and coho. AK fishes wild coho at 60% and it seems, over a decade or two, to be "sustainable". Their pinks fluctuate. When the crik had no pinks, the coho harvest was 1,000. When they had 2 kg of pinks per square metre the harvest was 5-8000. We, down here in WA, have simply decided to keep our runs at the low end of production by limiting escapement.

In a similar vein, modeling fo AK coho showed that a 40% HR gave more harvest than 60% because of the fertilizer effect of the added spawners.

The information is out there, but would require short term reductions for long term gain.

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#1059346 - 03/23/22 08:56 AM Re: FISHINGTHECHEHALIS.NET [Re: eyeFISH]
bobrr
Unregistered


The tidal area fisherfolk have had the lowest harvest numbers out of all user groups in the last 3 years due to the Oct. 1st openers. With the hatchery only rule above the Monte bridge last year those folks got pooched as well. Effort last year was really low in this area, amount (or lack of) of cars in the lots spoke volumes.

The numbers caught that we observed were really low, most folks gave up after Oct. 7th. Glad to see a reasonable season again (if it happens), if we don't fish early the tribe takes our fish. And laughs.

Hopefully the state will figure out where to get the money to fix the launch, otherwise the money spent on upgrades to the launch will have been wasted. This is a WDFW budget fix as DOT won't contribute unless the bridge is threatened. What about pursuing grant money form the feds or state since this was an emergency flood deal? NOW is the time to figure this out, otherwise the other launches will be a shi* show in Sept.


Edited by bobrr (03/23/22 08:57 AM)

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#1059347 - 03/23/22 10:01 AM Re: FISHINGTHECHEHALIS.NET [Re: eyeFISH]
DrifterWA Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 04/25/00
Posts: 4978
Loc: East of Aberdeen, West of Mont...
03/23/2022

Montesano launch, whew, major problem. When the river cut through, 3-4 years back, the full flow was directed at the lower end of the mill and office building. As the water turned left it began to "peel away" the bank above the boat launch parking lot.

Last winter, in just a few days the river started cutting into the East side of the parking lot. In 1 day, the banking went away enough that the trees and LARGE boulders that lined the upper end of the parking lot slid into the river, many stayed and created more of a problem because it allowed the river to chew into the banking going around the corner toward the launch itself.

The river got high enough the water ripped across the whole lot, the handicapped area and area around the shitter.

I've launched there since 1974, there have been problems with the lower end of the planks being under cut which made a "a minus tide launch" VERY BAD".

Friends Landing, Fuller Hill and Cosie boat launches are not that big to handle the full demands of a major September - November fishery. Long lines, if using Friends Landing....single launch, low water can be tough.

BIG DOLLAR fix that NEEDS to be done but??????????
_________________________
"Worse day sport fishing, still better than the best day working"

"I thought growing older, would take longer"

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#1059349 - 03/23/22 04:42 PM Re: FISHINGTHECHEHALIS.NET [Re: Carcassman]
Todd Offline
Dick Nipples

Registered: 03/08/99
Posts: 27837
Loc: Seattle, Washington USA
Originally Posted By: Carcassman
Since it is NOF season, any idea where Larry Phillips moved off to? And, for R6, who you will now get to replace him.


https://asafishing.org/advocacy/sportfis...olicy-director/

Fish on...

Todd
_________________________


Team Flying Super Ditch Pickle


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#1059351 - 03/24/22 05:03 AM Re: FISHINGTHECHEHALIS.NET [Re: eyeFISH]
seabeckraised Offline
Juvenile at Sea

Registered: 05/12/21
Posts: 233
Loc: Mason County
Somewhat new to the process, and wishing that the Fisheries Meetings were in person again so I could put some names to faces, but in the past, has the WDFW seemed to value our input as sport fishermen?

Unfortunately I wasnt able to comment on the last virtual town hall for Grays Harbor, but was able to watch the whole thing on YouTube. Valid points about limiting impacts this year, similar to last year, in order to allow this surplus of fish this year to reach the gravel. Also agree that if we WERE to have a limited December fishery, a 1 fish bag, mark selective, would be ideal.

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#1059352 - 03/24/22 07:03 AM Re: FISHINGTHECHEHALIS.NET [Re: seabeckraised]
Rivrguy Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 03/03/09
Posts: 4399
Loc: Somewhere on the planet,I hope

Recs have had input depending on circumstance but not so for many years. For a long time the APA season process was almost set when the GH NOF started thus the designation of Dog & Pony Show. With the adoption of the GH Policy it has been much better and staff has provided information. Since the virus, Advisers fired, and ZOOM used, harder. This year with the jump in run size it appears that lot of behind the scenes gyrations and the information flow not so hot. Getting the presentation at 2:48 for a 6:00 meeting says a lot especially without a model to understand the numbers.
_________________________
Dazed and confused.............the fog is closing in

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