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#981063 - 10/30/17 11:49 AM Holding WDFW accountable
Gusty Offline
Returning Adult

Registered: 04/27/99
Posts: 372
Loc: Everett, WA. USA
With the Quillayute system closed it has spawned several interesting threads and as I read them something just felt wrong…I felt like I was somehow to blame for the situation.

Many of the comments in these posts refer to the sportsman needing to come together to fight for our seasons and opportunities…that we only care about our next fishing trip…but I don’t agree with that. I think most of us realize fishing as a declining resource/activity and there are systems we can not fish anymore because of it. We have accepted that….so what seasons and areas that are still open are EVEN MORE IMPORTANT because we do have less opportunity.

So just what does the WDFW do or what do they say they do?

Reading right off the WDFW website here is what their “Mission and Goals” page says.

Our Mission: To preserve, protect and perpetuate fish, wildlife and ecosystems while providing sustainable fish and wildlife recreational and commercial opportunities.
Vision: Conservation of Washington’s fish and wildlife resources and ecosystems.
WDFW defines “Conservation” as; Protection, preservation, management, or restoration of natural environments and the ecological communities that inhabit them; including management of human use for public benefit and sustainable social and economic needs.
Department Goals: To achieve its mission, WDFW will continue to focus its activities on the following four goals:
Goal 1: Conserve and protect native fish and wildlife
Goal 2: Provide sustainable fishing, hunting, and other wildlife-related recreational and commercial experiences
Goal 3: Promote a healthy economy, protect community character, maintain an overall high quality of life, and deliver high-quality customer service.
Goal 4: Build an effective and efficient organization by supporting our workforce, improving business processes, and investing in technology.

Sooooo….whats my point?

First of all I think that WDFW is clearly failing at its mission and goals…. to put it very kindly.

Yes, we as the sportsman need to lobby to protect and expand our interests…but we also need to hold WDFW and its members to a higher standard and when things such as this arise they need to be a lot more forthright than what has happened in this case. There are so many questions…

How many pounds of fish were actually netted?
How does that compare to previous years?
Why can’t a selective hatchery fish only plan be put into place on the Sol-Duc?
Who oversees the tribal catch numbers?
Don’t they keep running totals…how could they over-fish the system so badly?
How, if at all, will this affect the tribe’s netting practices in future years?

Second, part of the WDFW is enforcement…and I believe if I had over-fished my limit I could face fines, equipment confiscation and possibly criminal penalties such as incarceration. What happens on the commercial/tribal side if that happens? Should there be penalties levied against the Quileute tribe for clearly over-fishing to the point they had to close the entire system to the other co-managers? I am sorry but "jee wiz we sure are sorry" is not acceptable nor should it be!

Thank you for reading this long post and in closing… let us please be focused on the issue…this isn’t about some long term decline of a fishery and we all are whining about the good ole days…this is about a fishery that was and is viable, was open to fishing for both recreational and commercial/tribal interests and one of those parties grossly over-fished to the point where the entire system has been closed.


Edited by Gusty (10/30/17 02:25 PM)

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#981099 - 10/30/17 07:41 PM Re: Holding WDFW accountable [Re: Gusty]
jgreen Offline
Returning Adult

Registered: 04/18/12
Posts: 315
Loc: Elma, WA
Nice post, but one thing that is off though...the WDFW, or the state of washington can do absolutely nothing in the way of oversight, prosecution or any sort of ruling over the tribe. They fancy themselves a separate nation. They "oversee" themselves. The Tribe can act with absolute power and impunity. The federal government can step in, but even the Trump administration will probably do nothing in any case, out of fear of looking racist.

The answer to every question about the tribes....is nothing...we can do absolutely nothing. Treaties and Boldt, that settles it.

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#981100 - 10/30/17 07:57 PM Re: Holding WDFW accountable [Re: jgreen]
Blktailhunter Offline
Returning Adult

Registered: 08/07/09
Posts: 485
Originally Posted By: jgreen
Nice post, but one thing that is off though...the WDFW, or the state of washington can do absolutely nothing in the way of oversight, prosecution or any sort of ruling over the tribe. They fancy themselves a separate nation. They "oversee" themselves. The Tribe can act with absolute power and impunity. The federal government can step in, but even the Trump administration will probably do nothing in any case, out of fear of looking racist.

The answer to every question about the tribes....is nothing...we can do absolutely nothing. Treaties and Boldt, that settles it.



Hay bales and barbed wire, not that I'm suggesting anyone do that.....

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#981101 - 10/30/17 08:53 PM Re: Holding WDFW accountable [Re: Gusty]
Take-Down Offline
Juvenile at Sea

Registered: 02/29/08
Posts: 117
The tribes are separate nations, but we can do 'absolutely nothing' is a slight overstatement. And there are some folks looking into the few mechanisms that could be used to bring those tribes that are lawless (certainly not all are) back into compliance. What happened in Forks this Fall is so over the line that there may be recourse.


Edited by Take-Down (10/30/17 08:54 PM)

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#981105 - 10/30/17 11:21 PM Re: Holding WDFW accountable [Re: Gusty]
Blu13 Offline
Juvenile at Sea

Registered: 11/26/03
Posts: 213
If I ever make it over this year, it will be my 29th year in a row. In that time I've seen a lot and learned a lot.
This is not the 1st time this happened. In late 80's into the 90's the King run was strong. One thing I learned, is when the fish are ready to enter the river they can do it in mass if the run is there. Once they enter the lower river the Kings hold and can stack up. A number of times in those years I left on a Sunday evening, knowing 100's if not 1,000's of fish were there and would be gone within 2 days. In the years to follow, I had this discussion numerous times with people who had witnessed it.

Then the run crashed. I'm sure mother nature had a hand in it but netting the crap out of them year after year and having the Sportsmen keeping a limit of Kings took it's toll . Yes, add up all the guides, sportsmen etc keeping 2 Kings a piece and we contributed.

So the run tanked for years. I could give more examples of why I feel that way but as many of you know, a lot of guides and fishermen have been releasing Kings there for years because we know what happened.

So finally the King #'s have been rebounding. When I go to North of Falcon I always look at the #'s. 2017 had a prediction of 6,433 fish. I'm pretty sure that's the biggest # in years. So the run may be rebounding.

Then in Sept, Oct the tribe is netting, they did cut back days but that doesn't matter if the fish enter the river in a big push and large #'s as happened. They don't need a lot of time when there nets stretch across a good portion of the river, they drive the fish into nets with boats and poles and they drift net. You can take a lot of fish fast. And it sounds like they did.

So in the end, the Kings have paid the ultimate price and we have paid the price for what the tribe did.

The long term question is; How can everyone make sure this does not happen again. That history does not repeat itself. Not sure how accurate this is and I plan on doing some investigating but I was told by someone reliable that I believe it would have been 2015, the tribe realized that they had taken more Kings then had made it to Spawning Beds. If that is accurate, that is twice in the last 3 years. Not good.

Things that need to be improved. WDFW & National Park working with the tribe to prevent this from happening again. The Park needs to beef up their enforcement. They went to Release All Wild Fish back in I believe 2015. But they did a poor job of enforcing it. Snagging in Low Water, Keeping Wild Fish, Keeping Over Limit etc has been common for years. It needs to stop. Some things I have witnessed in one of our National Parks has been disgusting.

I hope I wasn't to long on this but I'm passionate about the system.

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#981110 - 10/31/17 09:17 AM Re: Holding WDFW accountable [Re: Gusty]
Gusty Offline
Returning Adult

Registered: 04/27/99
Posts: 372
Loc: Everett, WA. USA
In all honesty a couple of my initial questions were rhetorical in nature.

I am aware the tribes are a supposed sovereign state but I still stand firm in believing policies can change with enough political pressure.

We don’t have to accept the status quo and should raise the bar and expect more from WDFW.

Maybe WDFW couldn’t do a darn thing even if they witnessed the over fishing....but they sure as heck could have gotten the press involved and started to mount a more political type of pressure. What would have happened if WDFW kindly tipped off the news agencies to what was happening? You would have had it on TV and in the paper.

But what has the state offered to the public in terms of actual information. Nothing....chirp, chirp..it’s been awfully quiet.

Don’t these people get paid to manage these issues?

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#981117 - 10/31/17 01:14 PM Re: Holding WDFW accountable [Re: Gusty]
Sky-Guy Offline
The Tide changed

Registered: 08/31/00
Posts: 7232
Loc: Everett
Originally Posted By: Gusty


But what has the state offered to the public in terms of actual information. Nothing....chirp, chirp..it’s been awfully quiet.

Don’t these people get paid to manage these issues?


Read the following to Articles Brian and I wrote about some glaringly obvious abuses in the one place where we can actually measure fish in the state... Lake Washington.

https://tidalexchange.com/2017/03/20/numbers-dont-add-tribal-catch-questioned/

Then read this follow up:
https://tidalexchange.com/2017/05/12/numbers-dont-add-2-lake-washington-chinook/

It's not hard to look at the available data from LW and other watersheds and draw conclusions, or investigate root cause for such discrepancies. You just have to have strong political will, and big balls to match.

_________________________
You know something bad is going to happen when you hear..."Hey, hold my beer and watch this"

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#981119 - 10/31/17 01:33 PM Re: Holding WDFW accountable [Re: Gusty]
Bay wolf Offline
Repeat Spawner

Registered: 10/26/12
Posts: 1075
Loc: Graham, WA
Sky, interesting that you mentioned those articles. I sent links to those articles to both Senator Pearson and Congresswoman Liz Pike in e-mails yesterday outlining several of the gross disparities in our co-management system. In addition to your and Brian’s detailed articles, I also included links to the Skokomish issue, the Queets fiasco and the Point No Point travesty.

Keep up the good work. It seems like the public are the only ones willing to call foul!
_________________________
"Forgiveness is between them and God. My job is to arrange the meeting."

1Sgt U.S. Army (Ret)

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#981130 - 10/31/17 07:43 PM Re: Holding WDFW accountable [Re: Gusty]
Blu13 Offline
Juvenile at Sea

Registered: 11/26/03
Posts: 213
Bay, what is the Queets fiasco you reference? I think I already know but it will be good to see what you say

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#981139 - 11/01/17 09:22 AM Re: Holding WDFW accountable [Re: Take-Down]
wsu Offline
Returning Adult

Registered: 06/23/04
Posts: 422
Originally Posted By: Take-Down
The tribes are separate nations, but we can do 'absolutely nothing' is a slight overstatement. And there are some folks looking into the few mechanisms that could be used to bring those tribes that are lawless (certainly not all are) back into compliance. What happened in Forks this Fall is so over the line that there may be recourse.


Can you PM me some details? I may want to get on board.

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