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#982373 - 12/09/17 04:33 PM Re: Bend over Boys, We told you it was coming! [Re: Bay wolf]
Tug 3 Offline
Juvenile at Sea

Registered: 03/06/14
Posts: 134
I guess the Attorney General's Office now runs the department. I'm lost in all the rhetoric. Who requested the mediation? I apologize for not being there today. I'm under the weather so to speak.

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#982375 - 12/09/17 07:30 PM Re: Bend over Boys, We told you it was coming! [Re: Bay wolf]
Great Bender Offline
Juvenile at Sea

Registered: 01/03/17
Posts: 150
Loc: Hood Canal
It appears that Mr. Grossman is reading the posts, so please defer any legal questions you might have about WDFW to AAG M. Grossman at the Olympia Natural Resources Bldg. He likely will be most happy to reply...

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#982378 - 12/10/17 09:20 AM Re: Bend over Boys, We told you it was coming! [Re: Bay wolf]
DrifterWA Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 04/25/00
Posts: 4647
Loc: East of Aberdeen, West of Mont...
Mr. Grossman could just reply on the forum, that would be faster than replying to lot's of separate emails.........and more open, like Governor Inslee wants.

WDFW can use the court decisions all they want, bottom line is the people have a right to know.

WDFW/Tribal has used the court decision, relative to NOF.

Wynoochee mitigation has been 25 YEARS, in the process......The hiding behind closed doors IS NOT a very effective way to get the process done. I realize that this is just 1 river, about 27 miles in length, effects steelhead and Coho, BUT there is $2.4 million in a fund, by Tacoma City Light, to get these fish into the system.

Commission in February of 2016, commented on Wynoochee Mitigation..."tired of hearing about this Wynoochee mitigation", let's get it done..............still the fight goes on and those in the community have NO idea, what the issues are, video feeds would allow insight.
_________________________

"Worse day sport fishing, still better than the best day working"

"I thought growing older would take longer"

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#982383 - 12/10/17 10:46 AM Re: Bend over Boys, We told you it was coming! [Re: Bay wolf]
Carcassman Online   content
River Nutrients

Registered: 11/21/07
Posts: 5793
Loc: Olema,California,Planet Earth
The State had a hatchery/rearing pond in the final design stages for Wynoochee. I think the Forest Circus said you couldn't do it on their land and Region pushed to use the money for habitat restoration.

Problem with that is the fact the money was for a specific amount of production (mitigation, by definition). Habitat work would have resulted in significantly fewer fish than was called out in the agreement. That would leave WDFW open to lawsuits for not properly using the mitigation funds. So, doing nothing keeps their backsides out of court. Always Goal One.

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#982386 - 12/10/17 12:00 PM Re: Bend over Boys, We told you it was coming! [Re: Carcassman]
BARCHASER Offline
Juvenile at Sea

Registered: 04/22/12
Posts: 177
Loc: Bothell
I havent posted here in awhile. My personal opinion, trying to get anything done with the WDFW or in any other organ of Washington State government is hopeless.

Last Spring I did send an email to the Dept of the Interior at least stating my complaints. That probably wont do any good either, but at least it made me fill better. If you want to do the same, the DOI has a link that makes it easy to send them an email. At one point I hoped this Zinke guy might do something but now it looks like he just wants to wear cowboy hats and fart around with Trump stuff.

Nevertheless, I do know enuff about the federal government, that if they just get a few emails nothing happens but if the get hundreds of emails from real live taxpayers and voters, things can change. Hope for the best, here's the email I sent them last Spring.



Subject: Puget Sound salmon fisheries, Judge Bodlt decision and tribal relations

Feedback:
The relationship between sports fishers, the Tribes and the Washington Department of Fish and Wildlife (WDFW) is hopelessly broken. The original treaty was a Federal Treaty and the Judge Boldt decision was made by a federal judge. The WDFW is stuck in the impossible position of negotiating with a sovereign nation, the Tribes. The State has no power over the Tribes. I don't know if you people are following this mess. Negotiations with the Tribes should be done by another sovereign nation, the Federal Government, specifically your Department. The federal government has not done its job.

The original Boldt decision envisioned a "fair share" between Tribal and non Tribal fishers. There is no "fair share" at present. Sports fishers are bean counted for every salmon we catch but there is no accounting over salmon the Tribes catch. Negotiations between the WDFW and the Tribes are done in secret.

Your Department should take over all negotiations with the Tribes and these negotiations have to be done in the open. Negotiations have to be done between two sovereign entities. You are not in compliance with the goals of the Boldt. Your Department is under new management and this is the time to fix this mess. If you cant fix it then just call a halt to all salmon fishing in treaty waters. We are all fed up.

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#982397 - 12/11/17 07:15 AM Re: Bend over Boys, We told you it was coming! [Re: Bay wolf]
Great Bender Offline
Juvenile at Sea

Registered: 01/03/17
Posts: 150
Loc: Hood Canal
Barchaser--Like you, I read posts on this blog occasionally, and add my point of view sparingly. Now and then, I feel compelled to respond to what I read. Your letter to the Dept. of the Interior figuratively grabbed me right by the short hairs. In a modest fashion and with a comparative number of few words, you summed up the scenario that sees hundreds of thousands of recreational stakeholders, patrons, stewards and supporters in this State feeling disconnected, and left to twist in the wind.
Any way you cut it, WDFW has failed miserably to put its stakeholders before all else...and to simply demand that the Federal Govt. come to our State, and enforce the treaties they made on our behalf. The fact that the Director and Commissioners have been put in an untenable position is beyond doubt, and most of us get that...but what really frosts my a$$ is the obvious reluctance to go to the source of the problem, then deal with it firmly and directly. Two AAGs (Asst. Attorneys General) are pulling down big bucks to handle the legalities involved in this mess. They are overwhelmed, they claim, by the burden of that responsibility and finding any practical path to success. However, Judge Boldt and his decision made the law clear and simple.
Your letter served a worthwhile purpose, and a compliment of many more like it would certainly add to your cause...but the right letter(s) and actions by the right people--the ones hired and paid to protect our collective rights under the law--could, and should, make the difference. For years this problem has festered, so why has the State Attorney General's Office turned a blind eye to doing their job? Is this lack of action an effort to provide some level of job security? If so...it should be the other way around...

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#982399 - 12/11/17 09:06 AM Re: Bend over Boys, We told you it was coming! [Re: eyeFISH]
eyeFISH Offline
Ornamental Rice Bowl

Registered: 11/24/03
Posts: 12542
Originally Posted By: eyeFISH


Second half of the meeting (Reg Simplification and Willapa discussions/hearings) is MIA on the videotape, but I've been assured by the TVW folks they'll get it up later today.
_________________________
"Let every angler who loves to fish think what it would mean to him to find the fish were gone." (Zane Grey)

"If you don't kill them, they will spawn." (Carcassman)


The Keen Eye MD
Long Live the Kings!

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#982406 - 12/11/17 12:31 PM Re: Bend over Boys, We told you it was coming! [Re: Bay wolf]
eyeFISH Offline
Ornamental Rice Bowl

Registered: 11/24/03
Posts: 12542
It's fixed... full meeting now posted to TVW. Be forwarned... it's over 5 hours long. Thank God for the fast forward slider!
_________________________
"Let every angler who loves to fish think what it would mean to him to find the fish were gone." (Zane Grey)

"If you don't kill them, they will spawn." (Carcassman)


The Keen Eye MD
Long Live the Kings!

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#982407 - 12/11/17 12:31 PM Re: Bend over Boys, We told you it was coming! [Re: Bay wolf]
Krijack Offline
Repeat Spawner

Registered: 06/03/06
Posts: 1192
Loc: Tacoma
Attorney General is bogged down? They just sued the Trump administration for the 18th time, along with additional actions on a national level. seems to me if they were so busy they could step back and let someone else take the initiative. If they are the only one, then maybe there's a reason. I am not talking about the merits of the lawsuits, only on his insistence on putting his name out there on issues that he could let others take on.

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#982411 - 12/11/17 12:53 PM Re: Bend over Boys, We told you it was coming! [Re: DrifterWA]
elparquito Offline
The Chosen One

Registered: 02/09/00
Posts: 13783
Loc: Margaritaville
Originally Posted By: DrifterWA
Mr. Grossman could just reply on the forum, that would be faster than replying to lot's of separate emails.........and more open, like Governor Inslee wants.


I think it's a bit naive of anyone to think he would reply on a public forum, let alone this one.

I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that's never gonna happen. I could be wrong.

I could just ask him since he's my fraternity brother, but I won't.
_________________________

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#982415 - 12/11/17 01:15 PM Re: Bend over Boys, We told you it was coming! [Re: eyeFISH]
eyeFISH Offline
Ornamental Rice Bowl

Registered: 11/24/03
Posts: 12542
Originally Posted By: eyeFISH
It's fixed... full meeting now posted to TVW. Be forwarned... it's over 5 hours long. Thank God for the fast forward slider!


Reg Simplification starts at about 2:15 with public comments at about 2:45

Willapa Bay staff presentation starts at about 3:51 with public comments starting at about 4:30
_________________________
"Let every angler who loves to fish think what it would mean to him to find the fish were gone." (Zane Grey)

"If you don't kill them, they will spawn." (Carcassman)


The Keen Eye MD
Long Live the Kings!

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#982417 - 12/11/17 01:21 PM Re: Bend over Boys, We told you it was coming! [Re: elparquito]
Bay wolf Offline
Repeat Spawner

Registered: 10/26/12
Posts: 1024
Loc: Graham, WA
Originally Posted By: paker
think it's a bit naive of anyone to think he would reply on a public forum, let alone this one.

I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that's never gonna happen. I could be wrong.

I could just ask him since he's my fraternity brother, but I won't.



I would invite Mr. Grossman to make the effort to engage in an educational overview. It would certainly decrease speculation and would go a long way in bringing facts to the table, rather than interpretation by those of us who are passionate, yet not lawyers.


Edited by Bay wolf (12/11/17 01:25 PM)
_________________________
"Forgiveness is between them and God. My job is to arrange the meeting."

1Sgt U.S. Army (Ret)

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#982423 - 12/11/17 04:50 PM Re: Bend over Boys, We told you it was coming! [Re: Bay wolf]
Carcassman Online   content
River Nutrients

Registered: 11/21/07
Posts: 5793
Loc: Olema,California,Planet Earth
WDFW has for a long had the problem of not correcting mis-information in the public. They should make every effort to educate the public, give them the information, refute false statements, and so on. Should.

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#982426 - 12/11/17 11:26 PM Re: Bend over Boys, We told you it was coming! [Re: Bay wolf]
LocalTalent Offline
Juvenile at Sea

Registered: 06/30/14
Posts: 136
Help is on the way. I've contacted my elected state officials about this issue. I'm sure John McCoy will be looking into this for us.

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#982428 - 12/12/17 08:35 AM Re: Bend over Boys, We told you it was coming! [Re: LocalTalent]
Bay wolf Offline
Repeat Spawner

Registered: 10/26/12
Posts: 1024
Loc: Graham, WA
Originally Posted By: LocalTalent
Help is on the way. I've contacted my elected state officials about this issue. I'm sure John McCoy will be looking into this for us.


THANK YOU! If every person who signed our petition and every person who has agreed with our fight on our Facebook and twitter pages, would contact their representatives, it would mean they would be getting contacted from over thousands and thousands of stakeholders.

It only takes a couple of minutes out of your busy day, but the weight it carries, compounded is huge! As I've said, a drip is easy to ignore, but a flood is another thing entirely.

LocalTalent, can you post John McCoy's contact information so others can follow your lead?
_________________________
"Forgiveness is between them and God. My job is to arrange the meeting."

1Sgt U.S. Army (Ret)

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#982429 - 12/12/17 08:46 AM Re: Bend over Boys, We told you it was coming! [Re: Bay wolf]
wsu Offline
Returning Adult

Registered: 06/23/04
Posts: 407
Here's an easy link to find both your local representatives and senator:

http://app.leg.wa.gov/districtfinder/

Just type in your address and it'll pop right up with links to contact them.

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#982431 - 12/12/17 09:01 AM Re: Bend over Boys, We told you it was coming! [Re: elparquito]
DrifterWA Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 04/25/00
Posts: 4647
Loc: East of Aberdeen, West of Mont...
Originally Posted By: paker
Originally Posted By: DrifterWA
Mr. Grossman could just reply on the forum, that would be faster than replying to lot's of separate emails.........and more open, like Governor Inslee wants.


I think it's a bit naive of anyone to think he would reply on a public forum, let alone this one.

I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that's never gonna happen. I could be wrong.

I could just ask him since he's my fraternity brother, but I won't.


Expected answer......Who pays his salary?????? If it is the "tax payers", then there is a "right to know" but if it is individuals within WDFW then I guess its right for everyone on that side to not be "forth coming".
_________________________

"Worse day sport fishing, still better than the best day working"

"I thought growing older would take longer"

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#982433 - 12/12/17 09:54 AM Re: Bend over Boys, We told you it was coming! [Re: Bay wolf]
LocalTalent Offline
Juvenile at Sea

Registered: 06/30/14
Posts: 136
Originally Posted By: Bay wolf

LocalTalent, can you post John McCoy's contact information so others can follow your lead?


I did contact my 2 representatives, but wasn't sure if senator McCoy has a Tulalip email address that he might check more often.

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#982436 - 12/12/17 11:35 AM Re: Bend over Boys, We told you it was coming! [Re: Bay wolf]
stonefish Offline
King of the Beach

Registered: 12/11/02
Posts: 4769
Loc: Carkeek Park
One thing to keep in mind is if you email state senators or representatives off the state's website, you are limited to 1,000 characters.
I had to shorten my letters to conform to the character limit.
Maybe 1,000 characters is their attention span on any types of issues like this.
The state's site also doesn't show you what their email addresses are.

If anyone as a list of important senators, representatives, WDFW employees email or anyone else involved in these issues, maybe they can post it here.
Maybe a sticky at the top of the page with the list of emails might be helpful.
I'd like to send out more emails and not be limited to 1,000 characters.
Thanks,
SF


Edited by stonefish (12/12/17 01:03 PM)
_________________________
Go Dawgs!
Founding Member - 2021 Pink Plague Opposition Party
#coholivesmatter
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#982437 - 12/12/17 12:36 PM Re: Bend over Boys, We told you it was coming! [Re: DrifterWA]
elparquito Offline
The Chosen One

Registered: 02/09/00
Posts: 13783
Loc: Margaritaville
Originally Posted By: DrifterWA

Expected answer......Who pays his salary?????? If it is the "tax payers", then there is a "right to know" but if it is individuals within WDFW then I guess its right for everyone on that side to not be "forth coming".


Sorry, but I do not have those answers for you.
_________________________

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