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#984030 - 01/23/18 05:31 PM Commission action on Chinook plan
bushbear Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 08/26/02
Posts: 4709
Loc: Sequim
NEWS RELEASE
Washington Fish and Wildlife Commission
600 Capitol Way North, Olympia, WA 98501-1091
http://wdfw.wa.gov/commission/

January 23, 2018

Contact: Commission Office, 360-902-2267

Commission advises WDFW on chinook plan
that would guide Puget Sound salmon fisheries

OLYMPIA – The Washington Fish and Wildlife Commission advised state fishery managers to strike a better balance between conservation and harvest opportunities as they work with tribal co-managers to revise a proposed plan for managing chinook harvest in Puget Sound.

During a conference call Tuesday, the commission – a citizen panel appointed by the governor to set policy for the Washington Department of Fish and Wildlife (WDFW) – instructed state fishery managers to explore a variety of options as they revisit catch rates and other pieces of the updated Puget Sound Chinook Harvest Management Plan.

The plan defines conservation goals for state and tribal fisheries that have an impact on wild Puget Sound chinook salmon, which are listed for protection under the federal Endangered Species Act (ESA). Under that law, no fisheries affecting Puget Sound chinook can occur without a conservation plan approved by NOAA Fisheries.

"Ultimately, we would all like to see salmon runs restored in Puget Sound, but severely restricting fisheries isn't the only path to achieving that goal," said Brad Smith, chair of the commission. "For that reason, we advised WDFW staff to explore other salmon recovery options, including improvements to habitat and hatchery operations."

State and treaty tribal co-managers initially submitted the proposed plan to NOAA Fisheries on Dec. 1, 2017. The plan would reduce state and tribal fisheries in Washington, especially in years with expected low salmon returns. For example, increased protections for wild chinook salmon returning to the Stillaguamish and Snohomish rivers would likely restrict numerous fisheries because those fish are caught in many areas of Puget Sound.

Despite the restrictive nature of the plan, NOAA has already informed the state and treaty tribes that the plan is insufficient, noting that several key salmon stocks would not meet new — more restrictive — federal conservation objectives.

"Over the last few weeks, we've heard from many people who are concerned this plan could result in the closure of all Puget Sound sport fisheries, but that's not the case," Smith said. "Yes, the plan does call for reductions to some fisheries, especially in years of low salmon abundance. But we have an opportunity – given the need to revise the plan – to use various mitigation tools to offset impacts from fisheries when and where appropriate."

Mitigation tools the commission asked WDFW to explore include:

Increasing habitat restoration efforts.
Improving hatchery operations, including increasing production to support salmon recovery efforts.
Reducing populations of predators, such as seals and sea lions.
NOAA has indicated its review process will take 18 months once the federal agency deems the plan is sufficient for a full review, making it likely the 10-year plan won't be in place until the 2020-2021 fishing season. There will be opportunities for public comment during that review process.

State fishery managers believe that a long-term management plan will reduce uncertainty in the annual salmon season-setting process, providing more stability for recreational and commercial fisheries.

In the meantime, state and tribal co-managers are working on conservation objectives to guide this year's salmon season-setting process. During its call Tuesday, the commission asked state fishery managers to continue to discuss the possibility of using the 2017 conservation objectives for this year's upcoming planning efforts.

The commission directed state fishery managers to provide regular updates as the negotiations of this year's objectives and the 10-year plan continue. State fishery managers will also provide updates throughout the process to citizen advisors during open public meetings.

The plan, along with feedback from NOAA, is available on WDFW's website at https://wdfw.wa.gov/conservation/fisheries/chinook/.

Persons with disabilities who need to receive this information in an alternative format or who need reasonable accommodations to participate in WDFW-sponsored public meetings or other activities may contact Dolores Noyes by phone (3

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#984036 - 01/23/18 07:49 PM Re: Commission action on Chinook plan [Re: bushbear]
OceanSun Offline
Repeat Spawner

Registered: 07/01/04
Posts: 1303
Loc: North Creek
Well that's somewhat encouraging!
_________________________
. . . and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and have dominion over the fish of the sea . . .

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#984037 - 01/23/18 07:57 PM Re: Commission action on Chinook plan [Re: bushbear]
Larry B Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 10/22/09
Posts: 3020
Loc: University Place and Whidbey I...
If you are at all interested in this matter I strongly recommend you listen to the audio recording when it is posted by the WDFW Commission. In fact, I hope the Commission will make a version available as a Word doc.

Commissioner McIssac made a great presentation to include a recommendation for a new Conservation Hatchery with a secure water source to be available to assist at risk stocks (think Oso mud slide and its impact on an already questionable river habitat) and jump start their recovery.

The posted announcement does not mirror the emphasis Commission McIssac put on the need to control predators and particularly seals with their now documented predation rate on smolts. Finally!! Now, will WDFW take that to the table and co-ordinate with the co-managers to push NOAA into action?



Edited by Larry B (01/23/18 07:59 PM)
_________________________
Remember to immediately record your catch or you may become the catch!

It's the person who has done nothing who is sure nothing can be done. (Ewing)

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#984038 - 01/23/18 08:04 PM Re: Commission action on Chinook plan [Re: bushbear]
IrishRogue Offline
Poon it! Poon it! Poon it!

Registered: 08/08/06
Posts: 1721
Loc: Yarrow Point
... seems like potential good news for 2018.

... seems not super likely to help the real 2019-2029 problem, which is NOAA thinking it can recover salmon by cutting harvest further. We all have to be speaking with unified voices -- there ARE PLENTY of spawners on all these rivers to recover the salmon--salmon are amazing at rebuilding their own numbers. The ESA populations will not grow until the habitat improves.

B
_________________________
The charm of fishing is that it is the pursuit of what is elusive but attainable, a perpetual series of occasions for hope. -John Buchan

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#984040 - 01/23/18 08:49 PM Re: Commission action on Chinook plan [Re: Larry B]
eyeFISH Offline
Ornamental Rice Bowl

Registered: 11/24/03
Posts: 12766
Originally Posted By: Larry B
If you are at all interested in this matter I strongly recommend you listen to the audio recording when it is posted by the WDFW Commission. In fact, I hope the Commission will make a version available as a Word doc.





Audio goes into an exasperating infinite loop a few minutes into the presentation... WORTHLESS!

Had the same problem with another WFWC audio feed a couple months ago
_________________________
"Let every angler who loves to fish think what it would mean to him to find the fish were gone." (Zane Grey)

"If you don't kill them, they will spawn." (Carcassman)


The Keen Eye MD
Long Live the Kings!

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#984042 - 01/23/18 09:22 PM Re: Commission action on Chinook plan [Re: bushbear]
stonefish Online   content
King of the Beach

Registered: 12/11/02
Posts: 5205
Loc: Carkeek Park
Kudos to the commission for tell WDFW leadership that their behind the doors agreement doesn’t cut the mustard and to get back to the drawing board.
SF
_________________________
Go Dawgs!
Founding Member - 2023 Pink Plague Opposition Party
#coholivesmatter

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#984045 - 01/23/18 10:09 PM Re: Commission action on Chinook plan [Re: IrishRogue]
blackmouth Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 11/05/04
Posts: 2713
Loc: right place/wrong time
Granted habitat that can support salmon is necessary for their survival but as someone else on this board has already pointed out if the fish can not get here because they are intercepted in Alaska, California, Oregon, and Canada, our efforts may give us a different environment and while that may be good for our species but it may not yield more fish.
_________________________
"The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter."
Winston Churchill

"So it goes." Kurt Vonnegut jr.

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#984050 - 01/23/18 11:41 PM Re: Commission action on Chinook plan [Re: eyeFISH]
Larry B Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 10/22/09
Posts: 3020
Loc: University Place and Whidbey I...
Originally Posted By: eyeFISH
Originally Posted By: Larry B
If you are at all interested in this matter I strongly recommend you listen to the audio recording when it is posted by the WDFW Commission. In fact, I hope the Commission will make a version available as a Word doc.





Audio goes into an exasperating infinite loop a few minutes into the presentation... WORTHLESS!

Had the same problem with another WFWC audio feed a couple months ago


I just went through the first ten minutes without a hiccup.

Hope that means they fixed whatever problem they had as this is truly important stuff and not just for the Plan. I am hoping that it resets the prescribed role of the Commission to provide oversight and direction to the Department. Commissioner McIssac is very pointed in addressing that issue and the need to re-establish the trust of constituents.
_________________________
Remember to immediately record your catch or you may become the catch!

It's the person who has done nothing who is sure nothing can be done. (Ewing)

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#984054 - 01/24/18 05:20 AM Re: Commission action on Chinook plan [Re: Larry B]
Jake Dogfish Offline
Spawner

Registered: 06/24/00
Posts: 554
Loc: Des Moines
Originally Posted By: Larry B
If you are at all interested in this matter I strongly recommend you listen to the audio recording when it is posted by the WDFW Commission. In fact, I hope the Commission will make a version available as a Word doc.

Commissioner McIssac made a great presentation to include a recommendation for a new Conservation Hatchery with a secure water source to be available to assist at risk stocks (think Oso mud slide and its impact on an already questionable river habitat) and jump start their recovery.

The posted announcement does not mirror the emphasis Commission McIssac put on the need to control predators and particularly seals with their now documented predation rate on smolts. Finally!! Now, will WDFW take that to the table and co-ordinate with the co-managers to push NOAA into action?


I agree that McIssac put forward some interesting ideas but they seemed outside the scope of the management plan.
There was very little discussion about the numbers in the plan. I expect it to move forward as written or close to.

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#984055 - 01/24/18 06:36 AM Re: Commission action on Chinook plan [Re: bushbear]
RUNnGUN Offline
Repeat Spawner

Registered: 12/06/07
Posts: 1382
"Despite the restrictive nature of the plan, NOAA has already informed the state and treaty tribes that the plan is insufficient, noting that several key salmon stocks would not meet new — more restrictive — federal conservation objectives"

Great to see predators thrown in the mix. Hope they include the cormorant population. This quote from the news release leads me to believe we are in for some major restrictions from the status quo. I am still expecting hits on opportunity.


Edited by RUNnGUN (01/24/18 07:12 AM)
_________________________
"Life moves pretty fast. If you don't stop and look around once in a while, you could miss it.” – Ferris Bueller.
Don't let the old man in!

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#984056 - 01/24/18 07:02 AM Re: Commission action on Chinook plan [Re: bushbear]
Carcassman Online   content
River Nutrients

Registered: 11/21/07
Posts: 7413
Loc: Olema,California,Planet Earth
For that plan, or any recovery plan, too work, more fish have to survive AND spawn. Numbers of spawners have to go UP.

Habitat is critical, it is being fixed, and it will be years, if not decades before that work will show up in increased spawner numbers.

The two areas that continue to kill fish are predation and harvest. NOAA, for whatever political reasons, is fixated on harvest south of the BC/WA border. While it is probably the least effective place to act, it seems to be the only place they are willing to act. Perhaps it is the only place the Tribes are willing to exert influence.

As much as folks want to kill fish, until the stocks rebound there really is no justification to keep on what we have been doing as it doesn't work.

ESA had the "Gad Squad" where a species can be delisted because it "can't (read won't) be saved." Do we really want to do that? Species are listed under ESA because choices we have made are driving them to extinction. When keeping them around becomes too inconvenient why do we even try to save them at all? We caused this problem. Are we (society) simply saying that nothing is worth saving of it is inconvenient or doesn't allow me to do as I wish?

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#984058 - 01/24/18 08:54 AM Re: Commission action on Chinook plan [Re: bushbear]
Sky-Guy Offline
The Tide changed

Registered: 08/31/00
Posts: 7232
Loc: Everett
Am I the only person who has read this plan, read NOAA's feedback to WDFW about the plan, and feel that the Commissions remarks fall short of what is expected by NOAA, or don't do enough to save the fish and rec seasons?

It's clear we will have a round-robin effect of 5-6 critical stocks that will be forecasted with low abundances affecting all harvest year-to-year. One year it may be stocks 1, 4, and 5. The next it may be 2, 3, and 1. All of these stocks have the potential to negatively affect recreation and tribal seasons based upon their locations. All of these stocks require Habitat intervention dollars and various hatchery solutions.

Why are we talking about just the Stilly?

Any solution needs to recognize the problem for what it is, first.

_________________________
You know something bad is going to happen when you hear..."Hey, hold my beer and watch this"

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#984061 - 01/24/18 09:46 AM Re: Commission action on Chinook plan [Re: bushbear]
Carcassman Online   content
River Nutrients

Registered: 11/21/07
Posts: 7413
Loc: Olema,California,Planet Earth
That's "weak stock management". Essentially, some stock is having some issues. Even if a miracle occurred and every PS Chinook stock was achieving optimum escapement one or more of those stocks would control fishing. Each stock has its own productivity. in some, R/S might be 1.2, in another 1.5, and third 2.0. The mixed stock fisheries should still be controlled by the needs of the least productive.

In the heyday of salmon fishing there were some stocks being overfished. Now that habitat is less productive, the ocean is changing, and so on there is no way to support those levels of mixed stock harvest and preserve wild stocks.

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#984062 - 01/24/18 09:49 AM Re: Commission action on Chinook plan [Re: bushbear]
Sky-Guy Offline
The Tide changed

Registered: 08/31/00
Posts: 7232
Loc: Everett
I have a handle on those concepts Carcassman. My point is, the proposed solution is too narrow based upon the information we already have. Why proceed with a proposed solution that ultimately wont hold water?
_________________________
You know something bad is going to happen when you hear..."Hey, hold my beer and watch this"

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#984063 - 01/24/18 10:06 AM Re: Commission action on Chinook plan [Re: bushbear]
wsu Offline
Returning Adult

Registered: 06/23/04
Posts: 422
It seems clear that reducing mixed stock fishing is going to happen. The question is why would WDFW agree to take the brunt of that and not force change north of the border where most harvest occurs?

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#984064 - 01/24/18 10:10 AM Re: Commission action on Chinook plan [Re: Sky-Guy]
Larry B Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 10/22/09
Posts: 3020
Loc: University Place and Whidbey I...
Originally Posted By: Sky-Guy
Am I the only person who has read this plan, read NOAA's feedback to WDFW about the plan, and feel that the Commissions remarks fall short of what is expected by NOAA, or don't do enough to save the fish and rec seasons?

It's clear we will have a round-robin effect of 5-6 critical stocks that will be forecasted with low abundances affecting all harvest year-to-year. One year it may be stocks 1, 4, and 5. The next it may be 2, 3, and 1. All of these stocks have the potential to negatively affect recreation and tribal seasons based upon their locations. All of these stocks require Habitat intervention dollars and various hatchery solutions.

Why are we talking about just the Stilly?

Any solution needs to recognize the problem for what it is, first.



What I have gleaned is that the Stilly is the poster child but recall that NOAA clearly indicated that they wanted the co-managers to readdress several other stocks.

Furthermore, comments from Commission McIssac also recognized those other stocks and that further negotiations would be required and that Staff remains tasked to try and balance ESA related conservation and the goal of having a managed fishery.

Does the Department have an impossible task? Maybe. But what I can say with certainty is that SUS fisheries are taking the brunt of impacts versus CA and NUS while Nero (oops, meant NOAA) fiddles.
_________________________
Remember to immediately record your catch or you may become the catch!

It's the person who has done nothing who is sure nothing can be done. (Ewing)

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#984066 - 01/24/18 10:36 AM Re: Commission action on Chinook plan [Re: wsu]
BroodBuster Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 07/11/04
Posts: 3113
Loc: Bothell, Wa
Originally Posted By: wsu
It seems clear that reducing mixed stock fishing is going to happen. The question is why would WDFW agree to take the brunt of that and not force change north of the border where most harvest occurs?


Why would Canada give a rats ass when the good 'ol USA damned up a million square miles of their best salmon habitat and Washington flagged commercials are trolling north of their border?

It's a race to the bottom of the barrel with PS in the lead frown.
_________________________
"Government does not solve problems; it subsidizes them." Ronald Reagan

"The trouble with Socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money." Margaret Thatcher.

"How fortunate for governments that the people they administer don't think." Adolf Hitler

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#984068 - 01/24/18 10:59 AM Re: Commission action on Chinook plan [Re: BroodBuster]
Larry B Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 10/22/09
Posts: 3020
Loc: University Place and Whidbey I...
Originally Posted By: BroodBuster
Originally Posted By: wsu
It seems clear that reducing mixed stock fishing is going to happen. The question is why would WDFW agree to take the brunt of that and not force change north of the border where most harvest occurs?


Why would Canada give a rats ass when the good 'ol USA damned up a million square miles of their best salmon habitat and Washington flagged commercials are trolling north of their border?

It's a race to the bottom of the barrel with PS in the lead frown.


My simplistic little mind says that if NOAA/NMFS were to impose restrictions on AK that took pressure off of CA (as well as SUS) stocks it would provide a basis for CA to reduce pressure on SUS stocks.

But NOAA seems to be on the sidelines when it comes to exercising its authority beyond restricting SUS fisheries.
_________________________
Remember to immediately record your catch or you may become the catch!

It's the person who has done nothing who is sure nothing can be done. (Ewing)

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#984070 - 01/24/18 11:05 AM Re: Commission action on Chinook plan [Re: wsu]
Carcassman Online   content
River Nutrients

Registered: 11/21/07
Posts: 7413
Loc: Olema,California,Planet Earth
WDFW and the Tribes really can't "force" change north of the border. To deal with Canada, it would take the Federal Government taking the lead. Canada will argue that the fish they take are balanced by Canadian fish the US takes. They will, maybe, give up our Chinook, coho, and chum if we pass on their sockeye and pink. Since nobody else harvests AK fish, there is no hammer unless the Feds wants to strongly impose ESA.

Screwing over the NI fisheries in WA is the path of least resistance. When that fails, then they will have to try something else.

I don't really think that the folks in charge really want to see recovery. Recovery requires that the pre-existing problems are permanently removed. We are not going to stop growing our human population, we are not going stop habitat destruction, we are not going to stop the mixed stock fisheries. We are just buying time until extinction occurs. Keping things listed actually prolongs survival of the species because we kill it by cuts instead of nuking it.

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#984071 - 01/24/18 11:14 AM Re: Commission action on Chinook plan [Re: bushbear]
wsu Offline
Returning Adult

Registered: 06/23/04
Posts: 422
Force was perhaps too strong of a word. What I was attempting to convey is that WDFW sure isn't pushing the issue by agreeing to take the brunt of the harvest cuts.

NOAA wants this deal in place to stop the fighting and make the review process easy each year. The feds (DOJ) pushed for this after the tribes and WDFW didn't reach agreement in 2016. WDFW should make it difficult instead of easy. Like everything year at NOF, WDFW lacks the gumption to represent their constituents when things get tough.

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