In Northwest Science, Vol 88 #1 winter 2014

Hooking Mortality and Landing Success using Baited Circle Hooks Compared to Conventional Hook Types for Stream-dwelling Trout by High and Meyer.

The authors looked at the 69-day survival of Idaho cutthroat caught on flies, treble-hooked spinners, J-hooks/baited and circle hooks/baited. All hooks were barbed. The flies had 4 % mortality, the circles 7%, the j's 25% and the spinners 29%. It appears that bait might be an option for stream trout fishing if circle hooks are used. Apparently this result corroborated (with wild fish) studies done on hatchery rainbow.

Well, except, why would anyone bait fish for trout? The only reason I have for having done so was not knowing any better.

Sg

I'd put my baited hangback amputee rig against a fly any day. It would easily meet or exceed the survival rate with std flies.

Young kids would bait-fish

And more than likely build a life-long reliance on using bait.

And so some little kid (5-10 years old) is going to be able to handle flies or spinners well enough to catch stream trout? I sure wasn't that handy in those days.

I started out with bait fishing and managed to outgrow it. I suspect that is how most anglers started.

And what is the problem, IF bait fishing can be reasonably conservative in mortality (note it was about 1/4 of a spinner), that some areas allow bait on circle hooks? Again, IF the resource can take the mortality.

Even Yellowstone allows bait fishing. With circles you still allow bait but institute C&R which would teach the kids that every fish does not need to be killed.

Exactly.

I would like to have seen the study compared against the same 4 rig types but with barbless hooks as well.

just say no to bait. it's a crutch of epic proportions.

I like to "Master" bait.Just sayin.Good luck,

SZ

what 5 to 10 year old is going to know what the hell a circle hook is? or have the credit card available to order them online?

its still very near impossible to find a set of pre-tied barbless salmon mooching hooks.

Bait is for children when fishing trout. Why would you want to fish with anything other than a fly?


Streamer

And is trout fishing to be reserved for adults fishing flies? How will you bring in new anglers?

OK. Must be a recent change. But, they do still allow it. And the circle hook study was using worms. And in answer to the earlier question on how would kids buy the hooks? Parents would be a start.

The reactions here remind me of the one time I was fishing Pass Lake in my float tube. Dad takes son down to the water, who starts casting a Snoopy rod, a real Snoopy rod, mind you, with a practice casting plug. No hook.

Dad and young kid are berated by two flyfishermen to the point the kid is in tears.

Carcassman I tend to agree with the majority here. Bait is not "required" to teach little kids how to fish on streams. In my opinion kids should be taught from the get go about selective gear rules and the importance of following those guidelines because rules are only going to get more restrictive to keep fisheries viable.

I learned to fly fish when I was around 10 years old on my own by watching a VHS tape. Its not all that difficult to tie on a fly and have an eager trout grab the fly even if you arent casting at all. You can also tie on a clear casting bubble to a snoopy rod with a black/olive woolly bugger and catch trout in streams. Or a spoon or a spinner with barbless hook single hook. While i learned to fish a spinning rod/spincast rod a few years before fly fishing bait had already gone well below my choice of lure when targeting trout in both a stream or a lake. I felt that fishing spinners, spoons, soft plastics, and top water plugs was much more enjoyable that hucking out powerbait, trout eggs, or worms/maggots and letting it sit on the bottom or watching a bobber.

Bait is not required to get kids interested in fish nor learn how to fish. Ive been teaching my 3 year old daughter to cast her tinkerbell rod and she is pretty good already much better and keeping the spinner going than she is at the actual act of casting. This summer she will have no problem reeling in fish from a kayak or a boat while trolling lures without bait.

While I agree many lakes and some trout fishing streams have no reason to outlaw bait, i also dont see it as being a critical piece or any correlation to teaching a young kid to fish.

Yeah, that.

+1

Just say no to ascots, you end up looking like a fag..

Doeant? What's the English equivalent of that word?

Sorry, I don't speak Quillbilly.

I am partially fluent in Skytuckey as well as Island Speak. Sometimes you can combine the two:

"Doooood. Where's my meth?"

No problem here with guys/gals/kids fishing bait for hatchery trout in any location, unless that same location has a marginal population of wild trout in the mix or is a designed CnR fishery (Rocky Ford or Cady Lake come to mind). After all, most hatchery fish are produced with killing in mind, so what's the difference? I only know of a handful of trout fisheries that don't allow bait, and I think in those cases, even with the statistics presented here, it's an appropriate restriction.

As has been stated, allowing a specific type of hook to be fished with bait seems like a slippery slope. I absolutely agree that bait has it's place, especially with young kids. I know I was 10 before I had the patience necessary to cast a fly rod....

Not surprised to see that spinners with trebles were the number one killer. Three hooks triples the odds of hooking fish in a mortal location, and the barbs make removing multiple hooks from small mouths extremely difficult. Fun way to catch any fish in my opinion, but single, barbless hooks are my rule.

On a somewhat related note, I'd like everyone who thinks the mortality associated with CnR steelhead or salmon fisheries exceeds 5% should see these statistics. Hatchery trout just have to be far more susceptible to hooking mortality than adult salmon and steelhead (in freshwater, anyway), based on their diminutive size alone. Look at the way most people have to handle a small trout to remove a barbed hook. In order to get any leverage, they have to squeeze the fish half to death, and the pressure pushing the barb up or down through the mouth puts potentially deadly torque on the fish's spine and jaws. Even with all that, the single hooks produced 7% mortality or less. And people want us to believe hooking mortality (with mostly barbless hooks, mind you) is as high as 40%. RIGHT....

Misses the point of the question, why would someone fish bait for trout. Carcassman provided a qualifying answer regarding kids, and I'd allow that for stillwaters stocked with hatchery trout or for panfish. Otherwise it's probably my ascot arrogance that leaves me unable to fathom why an able bodied adult would recreationally fish for trout with bait when there's a world of more interesting and stimulating alternatives.