The state gives you the right to retain Chinook on the OP rivers but im asking that you dont. The last few years the Chinook runs out here havent been very good. Knowone seems to want to take the steps to ensure these runs come back.

Im asking you to take it upon yourselves to make sure these fish are not pushed into a critical level. It seems that the orginizations with power will not acknoledge that the Chinook runs out here are in trouble.

Just a note there are no hatchery programs for fall Chinook on the Forks area rivers. Im talking about the Quileute system and the Hoh. 90% of these fish are black when they hit the river anyways and arnt table fare so whats the point of taking them out of the system.

So please CnR the Chinook.

I think alot of nookies are bonked by guides and clients. I hate to make it sound as if I'm pointing a finger at just them I'm not. Weekend warriors and locals alike are bonkin' em' too! I think the problem is many people go to the OP to hook a "KING SALMON" and they want to bring it home. I bonk chinook out there too, but if it ain't chrome it ain't coming home. The bottom line is OUR STATE HAS NO BALLS to change things for the better. Such as Indian netters, white boy netters, and sporties like you and I. Sometimes I wonder if the state of Washington will ever pull its head out its @ss and see what type of world class fishing could be if the right changes were made.

[ 10-08-2001: Message edited by: BK ]

I dont see the problem with taking one a year or so but when everybody takes that one fish it adds up.

Hey Rich,

I've got a trip booked for my girlfriend and I on the 28th of this month, I was thinking of just taking pictures anyways, now I'm sure we will.

I wasn't really aware that the kings were in trouble, I haven't heard that before, (and I live out here) and I think people just aren't aware of that fact. Some education is in order.

-N.

I agree with BK on this one, if it ain't chrome it ain't comin home. Besides the silvers are much better table fare!!!
Lets release those guys and let them proliferate.
Peace Superfly

I'm trying to understand BK's points here. You say that you aren't singling out guides and clients, yet you specifically refer to them (I think that's singling them out). You infer that people shouldn't keep kings so they can reproduce, but then you admit that you keep bright ones (bright ones have not spawned yet obviously). Then if I understand, you blame the state for keeping the fishery open to keeping fish (the fishery that you enjoy and take fish out of). Not trying to be a smart-ass, just trying to understand what point(s) you are trying to make.

Poke

Boy this is gonna be a HOT topic Rich.
Not many think of the Chinook on the Penn. Personally chinook fishing is one of my favorites! I pass by Silver action all season in search of these monsters. Ill Fish the West coast down following these fish so I can catch them for more than the couple months in the Fall when there in the rivers. And I do a fair amonunt of it on the West end in Sept, Oct and Nov on the rivers. Ill also add that I rarely ever eat the stuff.
Rich is right though, there are not many hatchery runs up there of fall chinook. The nets get a lot and so do the guides and sporties.
One thing that helps is there has been low water the last couple years and it makes tough duty for the fisherman. (Coarse it makes it easy for the nets) It also puts WAY too much stress on the floatable rivers i.e. the Hoh and Queets. Last Sat or Sun there were probably 30 to 40 boats on the lower river and it was low for the Hoh! With no rain Im sure the chrome fish (Chinooks) were scarce on the river last weekend.
Last year I saw a guy at Barlow with a fish that went easy 45, a trophy by all standards! But it was black and squirting! I bet it diddent get eaten. One more day and those genes would have been in the river instead of the garbage can. I could deal with the change but there are many local and live in Forks guides as well as out of towners that would lose massive amounts of bus this time of year. Im not saying that they are more important than the fish. They arent by any means, its easier to get a job than bring back a true native run. Problem with this state is it waits too long to do something. I dont know what the anwser is but soon something will need to be done. Release all Chinook? Thats gonna be a tough campain! I could deal with it but it will be a heated battle! Plus if the Natives still net then theres still a major likely hood that they will be desimated beyond repair. Still thats no reason to justify doing nothing by anyone!
At least if ALL the DARK fish got released alot more would get by! And playing a BIG dark Chinook for 40 minutes can easily make him lose his sperm even if he swims away strong! Ive seen it before as Im sure you have too! So theres another thing that could be done! Gear up or break dark fish off if your light line fishing for Silvers. Theres alot we can do without the state! Use common sence and think about if your really gonna eat that tire or are you just killing it to please your hunter gatherer instints?

Bob D

Bob D pretty much summed up my feelings on this. I personally don't eat these guys anymore I just like to chase em in whatever river I can find them. Silvers are fun but I can get those anywhere and I don't need to drive very far to get them so they make for great after work trips. Chinook especially the big ones on the OP really get my blood burning and I will drive long hours and get very little sleep to catch em kiss em on the lips and let em go. I would also disagree that most of the fish that enter the river are dark. So far most of the fish I have caught and released this year are still bright. Now if you go high in these rivers then yes you will find that the majority of the fish are dark. I have also noticed that in years of lots of low water like the last two you tend to find darker fish lower in the river because they stay out in the salt so long waiting for the right water conditions in which time they get ripe.

90% of the time the fish I catch never leave the water and are released no worse for wear. I rarely take pictures anymore but I do keep it ready should I ever get a 50+ pound fish so far 45 is my best.

I would not mind seeing C&R on the Hoh and Queets or set a limit to 1 fish per year per person. Or maybe even seeing C&R on all hens but retention allowed on Bucks. This may be a best of both worlds scenerio by allowing the Hens to make it up to spawn and the sportsman and guides can still keep the bucks, which always seem to be in the majority of fish caught anyway. One last option is maybe imposing regs that fish over a certain size must be released that way we don't deplete the pool of the trophy fish. Unfortunately nothing will probably be done until it is to late.

Bob is your truck that purple and white ford I see out there with the matching boat?

Thats my rig! Say hi the next time you see me Quicksticks! Im sure everyone has seen that setup if they fish out there.

Bob D

Well pokey to answer your question. I was just trying to bring insight from all angles. And to put you straight about what I said about the state have no balls and netters is not just referring to the OP chinook but everything.

Personally I see no problem with the bonking of these Kings, provided they are chrome! I have seen numerous chrome brite kings in the rivers up there...you live up there and don't see chrome brite kings...?
If you think that the bonking of kings by sporties and guides is the problem...how bout the NETS? There's the real problem and they are indiscriminant to how brite a fish is.
The law says I can bonk...I'm gonna bonk! I observe all laws when fishing and if I want to take a few big kings home after a long weekend of fishing. I gonna do it!
and to all the people blaming guides, BLAME THE NETS first...

Not a Fuskie,

If the law say's you can jump off of a cliff, as long as you don't hit anyone at the bottom, are you gonna do it? That's the greed mentality dude. Just because the state say's it's legal, doesn't mean it's the right thing to do. We always ***** about how the state screwed up our fisheries right? So how can we depend on the laws to INSURE that we'll still have those kings around in a few years? Seems like as long as we're filling the freezer, "Hey, let's abide by the law." From what I've read of Rich G's posts, he seems very knowledgeable, and truly cares for the fish runs on the OP. I think that his observations are probably right on the money. Anyway, to me, the "nets" excuse to bonk fish is lame. It's time to start thinking of the future of our fish runs, instead of killing just because it's legal.

This is a tough topic. This Sat. I'm planning my first fishing trip out on the OP. Last October my wife and I drove out to the Ocean beaches and we decided to stop off at a boat launch on the Hoh. We saw some guys in a drift boat unloading three huge Chinook. I think two 30# and one 45-50# all chrome. They were the most amazing fish we have ever seen!! I've caught plenty of chinook in the 20-30# range but nothing like these. So if I'm lucky enough to tie into one of these this weekend what do I do? I'm all for doing whatever I can to help our fish runs. But if I get one of these chrome brite brutes to the boat I'll have a tough time releasing it. I've made the mistake of bringing home a Chinook that was too dark and indeed the meat went to waste. I'll never do that again!! But if I get a Chromer to the boat I'm not sure what I'll do......probably bonk it.

Mike

This post is a classic. We've blamed everyone now. First, guides and their clients were blamed. Then nets. Then the state fisheries department. Then those who keep "dark fish" were singled out. Then ANYONE who keeps a fish (though legal) was blamed. Typical of us fishermen (and I include myself). We all blame everyone except ourselves and never agree.

Pokey

just to clarify a bit...
I'm not THAT good of a fisherman (wish I was and had the time), so I think my post was taken a little out of context.
IF I get a chance to hook into a CHROME kinger with or without a guide, I will not feel bad about it (in fact I'll be overjoyed!)
I was up there a few weeks ago and didn't hook into a thing (I was fishing ethically with spinners, not a huge treble with 3 ounces of pencil lead below it)...so I'm not going to have a huge impact on a run.
Here's another log of blame on the fire while we're all accusing people: How bout all the snaggers I saw up there last time? The fish don't even have a chance with them...
Once again, I won't feel bad about bonking my few (3-4 a year)...

Pokey, your right, it's the blame game, we don't really know why there are no fish so we blame everyone, without facts.

It their fault:

• Snaggers
• Netters
• Catch and Keepers
• Guides
• Sporties
• WDFW Management
• You get the point?

In reality it's most likely a combination of all the above.

I for one am not willing to accept that Chinook salmon on the OP are in trouble until I get some facts. I won't consider a post or comment from a well meaning but ill informed indivudual that any run of fish is in dire straights. Although I do beleive that fisheries management have made some major blunders in the past, they really are all we have to really work with and that probably is not going to change. Sure we can take it upon ourselves to be a responsible angler and we should, but is that in itself really going to have an impact? Does it help the fish when we sit in front of our PC's and cast blame, call names etc.. I doubt it. I wonder how much of an impact we could have if we spent as much time focusing our energy on trying to get management to change their policies rather than pissing and moaning about other individuals or groups. Think about how much time you might spend on a fishing forum everyday or even once in a while and how that same amount of time could be put to use in a more constructive manner that could have a real impact on our fisheries. I'm not saying thats there is a magic bullet or that I really even have any answers, but I do know one thing, being un-informed and casting blame definatly will not help anything. I hear so many people saying "we've got to catch and release" and I think that a lot of the "Catch & Release" mentality is "Feel good stuff", kind of a way that allows us to relieve ourselves from blame and thats fine, if C&R makes you feel good, then do it. But the reality is that there are much bigger problems that need to be solved than whether or not we C&R. Think about it, the fact that C&R is sometimes not only a matter of personal choice but in fact is needed or required, tells me that we've got some problems that need dealing with. Catch and Release is like treating the sympton of a disease, when we should be working on prevention.

Yo Poke,

You are absolutely right. We "Fisherman" are pretty damned good at passing the blame. Just to clarify my post a little, I wasn't BLAMING anyone for keeping a king if legal to do so, I was trying to point out that just because the state say's it's legal, that doesn't mean it's in the best interest of the fish runs. Political pressure, and NOT good science usually dictate policy in this state. Rich G lives on the OP. He has observed a trend in the king populations and was expressing concern over their well-being. So here's my opinion in a nutshell: Bonk if you must, just remember, If you don't NEED the fish, how about taking a picture and letting it go to insure that there are 40 pounders in there for a long time to come.

Taking a picture and releasing the fish will not ensure that there will be 40 pound fish to catch in the future. C&R is not a magic bullet. In todays society, none of us NEED to keep fish in fact we don't even NEED to fish at all. It's a sport and a sport that we all enjoy whether we keep or release. If we want to continue to enjoy our sport in the future we need to figure out a way to all work together and apply some big time pressure on management when they are screwing up and in return credit them when they make good decisions. We need to do that by using facts and being well informed. I think that all to often we let emotions get in the way of making good decisions based on sound science. Also, as 4salt mentioned, like it or not we've got to realize that politics are going to play a big role in saving our fish. To many people tend to over simplify our fisheries problem. It not simple, it won't be easy and unless we work together we will lose the battle and the fish will be gone forever. It's time we put our petty differences aside and start working together.

The problem with the state is that they don't look at what other states have done. I've guided on a river in alaska that is in the top 5 in the state in numbers of chinook salmon that return each year. In the month long season on that river I saw less boats than you see on the HOH on a Saturday. Guess what the limits were there. 1 King per Day, 5 per year. Yet in the state of washington a fisherman can get two a day on the O.P. and 30 a year and than get a new punchcard to replace the one he just filled and start on that one. I am not for the releasing of all chinook but I would like to see a reduced daily limit and a seasonal limit of say 5. How many Kings does a person really need. what he doesn't get in Kings he could get in Silvers. Just my two cents.

I just dont know about some of the people here. Its a grave sin to kill wild steelhead but Wild chinook is OK.

The OP is one of the last places on the Lower 48 that you have a real good chance to catch 40 to 60 pound chinook everytime you go out. There are only a couple of rivers out there that still have these big genes and the gene pool is getting smaller and smaller every year.

I watch the nets every day on the Quileute and a 50 pounder is rare these days. In the past it wasnt uncoman for the nets to take 70# on the Quileute system.

I walk the upper Bogie every fall in the early part of November just after the rivers go back to low flows after the first big rains just to look at these brutes and what I have seen in the past 3 years has been very troubleing. 98 was the last year I saw good numbers of fish being up to 30 in a hole. every year after that has been less up untill last year when I saw none in three times of looking. I walked four miles of river and saw none.

Im not going to speak for anybody but there many other people out here that share the same views as I. Next time you come out this way go to the Sol Duc hatchery and ask them about the status of the fall chinhook run on the Sol Duc. Or even better next time you go to Olympic storting goods ask Bob to tell you how thick the Kings once were in the Sol Duc. Im sure he will tell you some good stories that will make you sick about how few kings you see in there now.

Anybody who says that a person that fishes these rivers atleast 4 days a week almost all year round every year is ill informed or dosent know his facts needs to think about what he is saying.

I may not have scientific data on the status of the Chinook runs out here but the fact is this,,,,,,, there are alot less fish than there yousto be and the trend is clearly going down.

So do what you want with the fish you catch. I know that I will be releasing all the Chinook I catch because I care about my back yard and want my daughter and grand kids to come to not have to go to Alaska to latch into a 50# chinook.