I am planning a trip to fly fish a river in Montanna this summer. I need to get a fly rod. I don't know if I should get a normal rod off the shelf or should I have one custom biult and what brand. I know sage is sapose to be good but I don't wana spend that much money. what about GLoomis or Lami. how are their fly rods. I need a #4. I want one at least 10' or longer and I can't find anything close. most are around 7' I am kinda leaning with a custom GLoomis. but I don't know if they have the same quality fly rods as their salmon and steelie rods?

TH, I was looking for yer web page and can't find it. I'd like to see what we could come up with and maybe have you do the job if I go that direction.

dcrzfitter

Sage or Loomis are both excellent. There is a store here in Tacoma that has a very large selection of these and more. It called the Morning Hatch. 253-472-1070

Good Luck

Why do you want to start with a specialty rod? A ten foot #4 is for the most part a lake rod. I would advise getting a 9' #4, if you want a #4. Personally I would suggest getting a 9' #5 rod, it is the best rod for all around trout fishing. If the wind kicks up, this does happen sometimes in Montana, and the Yakima in the spring and summer is like a wind tunnel, A #4 rod can't handle the wind.
Check out the FR1085,FR1085-4 or the FR1084GL3 these are all very nice tapers. Stay away from the 1024-4GL3, it is a piece of crap. Also the Adventure series rods are pretty nice.

[This message has been edited by salmontackler (edited 01-21-2001).]

I didn't know a company made such a thing as a 10' 4 weight. If you want to spend the money I would go with a sage. They have a good warenty, I'm not sure what g loomis's warenty is. Cabelas just came out with an 11' 6 weight for 150 bucks. I would also look at St. Croix and Redington fly rods. If I were you I would not get a 4 weight because their to flimsy can't cast a lot of line, and you can't catch a salmon or steelhead on it. I built an IM6 6 weight I've cought everything on it even a ten pund king.

Hey, check out the rod selection and talk to the guys at Streamside Anglers, a very nice fly shop right near you, just off I5 between exits 103 and 104 in Tumwater. Nice folks, and they have a good selection of quality gear.
Greg

To keep their edge on the market price, the blank manufacturers have things fixed so the cost of a factory rod versus the price of a custom rod are the same, once you buy the components and pay for the time of a custom. A custom rod should get you better quality, as well as custom color wraps, monogramming, and other frills. One way you can get around that is to find a fly shop that has a selection of "blems". These are factory seconds that didn't make the grade to sell them as "firsts" from the factory. If you look carefully at the seconds under very good light, you can usually find the blemish in the blank. First, figure out what blank you want...I'd recommend a 9'-5 wt also...then sort thru them looking for the blemish. Look for a blem that would be covered with epoxy under the handle, or in the top 1-2 inches from the tip, so it can be cut off without affecting too much performance. This is really the only way you'll come out ahead ($) on a quality rod.
For me, Sage is the way to go.

Thanks for all the great info. I have never fished a bug stick so I know nothing. I was thinking of going to a #5 so now I think I will. I will only fish Montana (the mighty MO) around this state I am a bait and spinner chucker only. I will stop at the Stream side. they are only about 5 min from my house and I know where the Tacom store is so I will give them a look. but thanks for all the info I am open for all you can fling.

dcrzfitter

I'm not sure you really want a 10' 4 weight. It defeats it own purpose. It is a light rod made heavy by too much length. Even for a lake rod it wouldn't be very practical. The suggestion for a 5 weight is the best and one to follow. I would amend it further by saying get a travel rod. I will break down into 3 - 5 pieces, is easy to store and thus less prone to break. The June 2000 edition of Fly Fish America did a very comprehensive review of 5 weight travel rods (58 of them) using beginner, intermediate and advanced casters. The top choices were the St Croix Ultra Legend UFT 905 for $300 (was $275 at REI a few months back), the Cabelas Stowaway/865-5 for $80 (the sleeper of the group) and the G. Loomis GLX1085-4 at $610 (it was preferred by the experience casters). If I were just starting, I go with the Cabelas. It is a great rod for the money and if you really get into fly-fishing it will make a fantastic back up rod one day.

Mike

I'd have to agree with all above. The reason you can't find a long 4wt (usually in the 6-7' range) is because it's designed to throw delicate presentations. It's not designed to cast a long line. It's for throwing very small dry's. I have a travel 4 piece 4wt that is IMPOSSIBLE to throw anything bigger then any size 6 hook, add any weight or bead eyes to hook and FORGET IT. You want at least a 5 wt. I'd even suggest a 6 or 7 wt. You can easily find it in a 9ft length and Sage has an outfit in Discovery series for roughly $260. The reason I say a 6-7wt is that you can throw beefy bigger size 2 hoppers and salmonflies and all the way down to the size 28 dries, but you can't throw big flies effectively with a small wt rod. If you've never thrown a fly rod, I'd suggest you try one from a friend, try out a few. Everyone who throws a flyrod has their own "niche". You may need a faster action, you may need a slower action to get an effective cast. I wouldn't buy just any outfit for price alone. Plus, you may hate it, may drive you nuts, you went out and paid good money for a rod you won't use again. When are you going to Montana? How soon do you need the rod? If you are going to buy a rod without throwing/feeling rod get a cabela's flyfishing catalog. There are alot of combo's for good prices there.

Jerry

Hey dc, send me an email, I need to talk with you....

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you haven't lived til you've rowed a cataraft. Friends don't let friends run Outcasts.

[This message has been edited by Steelheader69 (edited 01-21-2001).]

There is a lot of good info posted here, but here is my two cents anyway. Personnaly I am a Sage fan. The warrantee is top of the line, and worth the extra money. (For a less $ option check Schoff's in Kent for "blem" blanks you can build yourself). Another good less $ option is some of the xml blanks Cabela's sells, I've built those and they seem pretty good for the money, supposedly built by Loomis but they weigh a few oz. more. In my humble opinion if you are looking for a good rod, well under $300.00 though is a Lamiglass Esprite (LHS), or Copper river, excellent value. I like mine as much as my Sage, well almost. Important note - the line will make or break the casting performance of your rod, consult a knowledgeable fly shop rep (with the rod in mind/hand) in selecting yours.

Hey dcrzfitter, sorry about the delay in my response.. Montana.. I am also heading to Montana this summer, can't wait.. I am playing in a golf tournament and then hooking up with a few friends for some fishing.

Here are a few rods that I recommend... don't panic on the retail price.. the mark up on fly equipment is incredible.. I can save you lots of $$$

I would look at either Loomis rods or Sage..

(1) GLX FR 1204 10' 4 wt. little long for me
(2) GLX FR 1084 9' 4wt. I have two of these and love them.
(3)GLX FR 1205 10' 5wt.

My wife has the Sage VPS 590 which is a 9' 5wt. very nice and also affordable.. we have been fishing this rod on the Rogue for summer steelies for a couple years now and really like it.

We just built a customer the Sp 490 9' 4wt.
I think I may need this one too...


dcrzfitter .. shoot me an email and we'll work something out. I would also like to hear your plans for Montana. I also have a few other rods that are very affordable and very nice... perfect for the Madison

TH
www.thcustomrods.com

If want a long rod for a 4 weight, proably best to stay at 9.5 foot. And good advice on bringing a heavier rod for windy conditions. Especialy on open rivers like the Madison, Bighorn, Yellowstone, etc., etc. In canyon rivers the wind can come and go. Also for fishing the bigger flys like big weighted stones and sculpins, and if you are fishing early in the year when the water is higher. For rods check out the Anglers Workshop in Woodland WA. Their web site is, www.anglersworkshop.com . Good luck, and dont forget the softhackles (tan, grey, lt green) killer! thanks.

Having lived, fished and guided in Montana for many years may I sugest that you go with a 6wt as first choice. As many others have said that it get real windy in Montana durring the summer months due to the cool nights and rapid warming durring the day. If your going to fish big rivers on a some what windy day and fish to a feeding fish it's important to take your time to get as close as possible without spooking and make as few false casts as possible, one or two. With a 6wt line and the right leader you will be able to lay down an acurate cast into the wind much easier than with a 5 wt or 4wt. A 5 is ok but the 6 seems just right out in Montana. Also the 6 will handle weighted nymphs much better and you will be fishing them far more than dries. I perfered a soft tip rod because of the days fishing 6&7x tippett and 18 to 20 dries. The stiffer rods just don't cast small fly's and tippett as it takes a lot more line out to load the rod. Many rod makers make a medium to soft rod but they run lots of money, Thomas & Thomas and Winston are my faveroites. The softer rods don't cast weighted nymphs well but when nymph fishing you will be mostly making short casts up river and dead drifting down the seams.
Good luck have fun, the big Mo is better than ever from what I hear.

dcrz-

The best advise would be to go to a flyshop and practice cast a few rods to see what fits your style. I used to always fish a 6wgt because of wind, bug size, etc. Now I almost exclusively fish my 5 piece 4wgt Sage. I still live here in Colorado and, believe me, it gets windy up in the canyons just like Montana (I've fished there to). The advise for the 5 wgt is sound since you may get the urge to hit the Yakima after you get completely hooked on flyfishing in Montana. It blows all summer there. Once you become proficient at casting, you could go with a 4wgt just fine. They are more fun since they are lighter weight and make average fish (Yakima size) feel large. They also protect delicate tippets better than 5s or 6s. Don't even consider a 10'. The standard length is a 9' and every major manufacturer makes them in this length. Regardless of what weight you go with, buy it in 9'.
Post your question on www.flyshop.com and see what kind of responses you get. Its fun to get those guys riled up on topics such as this.

OK, I will be fishing between Hellena and Great Falls on the Might MO. the week after the 4th of July. my uncle has fished it for a few years and my dad went last year and after seeing the videos I have to go. They fish #5 rods. they say it's important not to go to heavy on the rod because they often use tipets from 2-4. so from the sounds of things I think I would like to get a nice #5 rod. now from steelie fishing I have really gotten to like longer and lighter rods. (noodle rods) so for me to go and fish a 4 lb leaader with a short rod just doesn't make sense!!! but I am learning that I not only need to use I small tipet so the fish won't spook but also a short rod to throw the bug at them with? I cant understand why they wouldn't make a #4 bug rod longer so it would cast better in the wind? oh well I see I have alot to learn. I will check out a few rods and see what I like. but I think I will start with a #5 rod.

dcrzfitter

dcrz, You are used to driftrods, drift rods have handles that are up to 24" long, while single handed fly rod handles are normally about 10". A 9' fly rod might sound short, but remember you will be holding the rod at a much lower spot than you would on a drift rod. Also, a longer fly rod doesn't help in the wind, when trying to cast into the wind you want the loop as tight and low as possible, remember fly lines have a much larger diameter than mono and they tend to get blown around in the wind. When was the last time you cast a piece of lead and have it land back in your face because of wind? Well this can easily can happen with a fly line. There is a reason while all the saltwater rods are 9' or even shorter. As far as using light tippetts, the tip on most five weights is soft enough to handle 6x(3lb) easily, unless you give the fish a "Marlin Set".

Goodluck

Salmontackler

I would suggest at least a 5wt 9' even a 6wt9'.Something else you might want to consider is going with a few extra spools with different line.If the wind picks up throw a 6 or 7wt line if its calm you can go with a 4wt.I fish the bitteroot every summer and the wind can get howlin at times through the valley.And if so the heavier line really helps.I have a 9' 5wt orvis and it handles a 7wt line in the wind just fine.I leave my 4wt loomis at home.TM