So, I know this is probably totally naive, but....

Why won't either of these guys sign over complete access to their records rather than just handing over cleared pieces that they deem relevent?

Assuming there's nothing to hide,wouldn't the first one to step up and make all of his records public be seen as the more honest guy?

Doesn't Kerry have the opportunity to prove that he got more than 3 scratches? Couldn't he go X-ray his leg, show the schrapnel and bury these guys?

Doesn't Bush have the opportunity to prove that he was actually present for his service? Couldn't he also bury some detractors by opening his records (like the cocaine allegations)?

Just looking for an honest discussion....

Flame away, but if you do, it's only fair to warn you that I'll claim to be as big as necessary in order to prove my side.

Medical records are private and should remain so for every citizen of this country, regardless of one's status.

Military records on the other hand are covered under the freedom of information act. To my knowledge ALL of Kerry's can be found.

Where are Dumbya's? To me this is the more salient question. The military record is as close as we have to fact to base our judgements on. A thorough examination of the military record can only result in the conclusion that Kerry served honorably in Viet Nam. Just as a thorough examination of Bouche's military record....wait a minute.....

...most of those records have been destroyed. Doesn't this even raise an eyebrow with you Dan? Again, if Bouche had served honorably in the guard don't you think there'd be some paperwork layin around somewhere? The only paperwork that CAN be found still indicates there are major holes in Bouche's version of his guard service. Keep in mind that its BOUCHE who makes such a huge deal about his credibility.

I fail to see how any fair minded individual can support such blatant hypocrisy.

Presidential Mafia

No true H20 about military records. They are not covered under the FoIA. Kerry still needs to sign form 180 to have the real records released. There is still a lot more info that has not been seen yet. If he was to sign the form that would answer a lot of questions. None about how he would run the country but could put to rest a lot of the accusations that have been made about him.

I bet his DD214 is about 1 sheet of paper.


Bush must be a real fool to have just about everyone in the world trying to find one iota of credible dirt on him yet they can't find any... In four years even... Kerry ahs been in the limelight for a couple months and already has all kinds of stuff haning over his head. If he does get into office I bet I know what will be going on the next four years... NOTHING. AGAIN...

Oh well. Think I'll go down to the boat and try to bang out some coho?? Got a nice 8lb hen the other day. Good times

Perhaps I'm missing something but that's not what it indicates here, at the National Archives.

he authorized those to be released first.

Try and get somones DD214. Call them up and say you want to use the FoIA. They govt guys can use a good laugh. While your at it, might as well see how many Seals you can find and what type of training they did. Or why don't you try and pull up some intel officers records..

Expect company soon

I'm not buying that til I can suss it out in print.

Understandably some things should remain confidential.

btw, hard to use records to prove something when they've been destroyed.

in pierce county, dd214's filed after 1969 are public record.

source: pierce county website

I misinterpreted pmartin, Aunty...he's looking for form 180. I'm not sure what righty thinks they'd gain by Kerry signing it except his medical records.

A DD214 is only one sheet of paper.

As far as filing it goes, it's done automatically by VA when you retire or ETS. The Pierce County thing is the ability to hide your records from public viewing.

I dunno why anybody would really care about that.

Yeah, I understand and suport the right to keep your personal (medical) records private.

I guess what I was getting at is:

What if either candidate WILLINGLY gave up his right to privacy and volunteered total access to their medical records. Use either candidate. I just flipped a coin and it came up Kerry. If he's still carrying shrapnel, it's pretty easy to prove ad you render te other side wrong. New flip of the coin come up Bush: Same thing. If ya got nothing to hide it might be a good tactic?

Again, not suggesting I have a right to their records, but I do sometimes give up my rights willingly (I even let someone merge in front of me once when I didn't have to).

This isn't pointed at either candidate. I was just wondering.....

I knew one of his Purple Hearts was delivered by flying rice (and I guess one of the others from self inflicted grenade blast when he fired and hit too close - ouch), but I think that Kerry himself has said he still carries shrapnel from one of his wounds...... No?

Now am I going to have to research to see if I'm full of crap?

I don't even know if it's important other than to prove character. Actions from 30 years ago are less important to me than more recent actions. But, if the guy's integrity is being impugned and he could roll up his pant leg and say "Check it out" then that would put an end to the character part of it...... I think.

Honestly....why all the questions about character anyway?

We are talking a senator and a former Texas governor here. To get to either station each must have had to impune their character in some way.

I think its interesting that righty wants Kerry to PROVE he was injured in the war but does not expect Dumbya to prove WHERE HE WAS during the war. I mean, if you are going to ask questions about ones character maybe start by looking at these forms....



Its not like we're voting for a messiah, I expect you could find character flaws in every human being if you look hard enough. Its about degrees of douchebaggery in my book...I find many degrees of separation between exagerating a war wound (if that's what you are suggesting Kerry is doing by keeping his medical records secret) and burying the truth, which I am suggesting Dumbya has done.

I don't suppose though that you see it way, Dan. I do suppose though that you find the destruction of military records and the sealing of gubernatorial records completely above board.

In the final analysis, the form above tells me all I need to know about either man's character....when the chips were down Kerry went to war. When the chips were down Dumbya stayed home.

Finally, I don't hear too many people around these parts making fun of soldiers fighting in the current war who have sustained self-inflicted injuries...I mean, its war fer cryin out loud. Weird **** is gonna happen when you are actually there taking fire....

Self-inflicted injuries sustained during cocaine binges while avoiding the war? Now that's fodder for jokes if I've ever seen it.

Hey H2o,

I do think that character matters. To me, character and voting record both matter. Notice I didn't say that I think Kerry lacks character, or that Bush doesn't. Sadly, you're probably right about both of them in terms of making senator and governor. But, Im not sure you read my last post in the way I intended (maybe my writing could have been clearer).

I didn't intend to take any cheap shots at Kerry. Believe it or not, when I referenced the self inflicted wound (ouch), the ouch was more a reflection of how bad it sucks to get hit by your own splashback...... And I know because I have been hit by my own hot splashback. It would be no more fair for me to mock Kerry for that than it would be to mock the over 700 men that died just in the D-Day rehearsal (Or so I just heard on Paul Harvey's "The Rest of the Story").

I'm not sure if you were referencing me in saying that "righty" wanted Kerry to prove something. If so, Let me try to clarify: Nowhere have you seen me accuse either candidate of lying/cheating. I simply was asking the (naive) question and in one spot used Kerry as the example. I could just as easily use Bush as the example. The original point was simply: Couldn't at least one of these guys step up and end this nonsense pretty simply by just releasing their records?

But I guess you point out a good problem to my question if Bush's military records magically disapeared.....

P.S. If character didn't matter, I'd start the rumor that it was actually me who caught that 42 Lb pig you posted the other day.
That beats my largest, but I haven't given up hope.