Here's more food for thought. Being a welder is great, but only shows you could be a great welder, but not necessarily are best with designs. You know materials to use, but most designers who have been welding them for over 20-30 years know that as well. Only someone who's put years of use in them can really fine tune a boat, especially if they are mechanically inclined. Almost 20 years of running these boats, especially in the whitewater realm, gives alot more expertise on design/performance then welding. I know that a few of the boat owners mentioned above have actually been into these style boats, or whitewatering in general, for well over 20+ years. Helps give them insight on their tubes. A great boat is the mixture of both, not simply being a welder. Why some of the great whitewater and fishing outfits out their aren't welders, but have the best boats in the world. Why? Because they hire people who know what they are doing to carry out their designs. Easy enough. Plus, when it comes down to it, customers carry the biggest asset of all. You get customers like myself who've actually tried most of the boats out there and know what a boat should be designed like and actually put out a good referrel, now that shows a good boat usually. Not people who aren't "impartial" giving referrals.