Actually, no I can't build my own tubes nor my own frame. Why, because why do I need to? I have welders who can carry out my designs to a T and I also buy my tubes from reputable makers who have far better access to machines and materials and can make more precise boats then I could ever make. Plus, as you well know, it's very costly to start up. Plus, I get exactly what I want for nearly the cost I could ever do on my own by the time I'm done (you have to include ALL your start up costs, you can't simply put an X value on anything you produce, since I assume you know that). Also, just because one can't personally build EVERY little piece does not make them less knowledgeable. So, what you're telling me is that some custom car builder out there who buys all his pieces and fabricates very little and makes alot of money doesn't know what they are doing since they have all their supplies outsourced? I don't think so.

Hey, we've had this dispute before. Big difference, I speak from the heart AND don't SPAM my products online. I am not a paid representative for ANY product out there, except my own fly/jig tying business, but you don't see me spamming sites do you? Just because one is bought by governments, that makes you better? I know Gov't by by the cheapest bid given. I know other manufacturers that have had similar orders from the Alaskan Fish and Wildlife for outfitting their agents with catarafts. So what? As I said, I have experience running them (before they were out on the market for fishing crafts). I've seen your boats, and seen your tubes. I never said your boats sucked, just don't like the tubes. Period.

Now, tell me this one? Why would someone give up a 70K job, free health, dental, etc. 5 weeks paid vacation, 5 free paid holidays to take whenever they want, and LOVE their job to give it up to do something they arn't all the interested in producing? Hmmm? Well, my point exactly. I get EXACTLY what I'm looking for, and don't need to worry about what the other guy is doing and worry about trying to spam sites with my product. I can simply live my life, and my weekends/free time are mine.

Like I said, customers are your true base on your product. I have experience, do I need to go out and get written/notorized statements from all my friends from over the years? Come now, don't be stupid. Most people who know me personally know where I'm coming from. They've seen my boats, have met my friends, and have seen me work my boats. You rarely ever post on a site unless it's pontoon boat/ cataraft related.

Funny thing, I knew that was your only comeback. Who cares if you can build a tube or a frame. Does that mean you are the best or know what you're doing? Your frames are ok, but why not build your own tubes? The tubes you are using are outdated, and are a good 8-10 years behind. How do I know? Because I've looked at your boats, even spoke with you at the Puyallup show. Before you knew who I was. I could tell at the Seattle Show you were looking for me, surprised you didn't remember me. Just I had no beard at the Puyallup show, had one at the Seattle show. But your tubes are on the same track now as Skookums tubes where back in 92' when I bought my first steelheader (may have been 93'). I have seen JPW's, and it's funny how he's making his endcaps IDENTICLE to SKookums now, they weren't that way in the past. Plus, his tubes now are identicle to Skookums of the past. I've seen them, run, and owned the older Steelheaders, and know the tubes well. The JPW's you have now are identicle to what Skookum produced years ago. The Skookums have improved. Before you say a word, his whitewater tubes are made here. Found out that he taught some of the overseas companies to build tubes correctly off his designs. But his tubes are made here. Why do you think the other companies tubes are looking like the Skookums? Because they outsource for the cheaper overseas boats made simliar to the Skookum (lower grade material on overseas). I guess the best way to compliment someone is to copy them. Seen alot more copies of the Steelheader, especially in other boats out there.

But, to get back to topic. If you want the ultimate boat, go custom. Osprey has alot of years experience welding (I am almost definite more then 15, because I've worked for UPS that long, and I first saw him as an oldtimer at his old company then), and his work is the best I've seen weldwise. Plus, he's been using these boats along time too. Nicest thing of all, when he outsources tubes he goes for the best. He suggests Sotar or Wing. But, like I said, the best boat on the market outside custom is the Steelheader hands down, say what you want. Spam what you want. Funny thing is, I first hand spoke with people who walked the show, and compared the boats. I heard their responses. I even ran into some of my old whitewater buddies. Heard their comments too. I also saw how many boats were sold as well for being more expensive then yours. So that must be saying something since we were right next door. And, before you say a word, I was NOT paid for being at the show. Bill has customers come and speak to interested parties and give a customer's perspective. Funny how many guys we had stopping by and volunteering for FREE to stick around and speak with potential customers of his boat. That's what you call customer service, and producing a good boat.

We can agree to disagree. But I speak from experience and heart. You speak from being a salesman trying to sell your own boat, and having relatives come on here too and spamming for you. But I do my posts for free, not to advertise. Shall we go farther and bring up the past? Can easily be done. Last time I checked, didn't see BBpontoons as a sponsor here?

Also, I've purposely told people to buy other boats. Even at the sportsman show I sold them on the Outcasts, Buck's, Skeeters, because the Steelheader was too much boat for what they wanted. I ONLY sell people on what they need. But when it comes to wanting the best, I point them in the right direction for price range.