Cowlitzfisherman -
I believe our basic disagreement is that I feel we should try to maintian or in this case establish wild fish populations wherever possible while providing hatchery opportunities where compatible with wild fish production. While in the case of the Cowlitz your position seems to be maintain all hatchery production possible while providing wild production that is compatible with that hatchery production. While those may do seem too dissimilar in reality they can be in serious conflict.

In addition you seem to feel that I take part in this discussion board primarily to defend WDFW. I'm not here to defend WDFW, any other agency or organization, or any individual. Rather I'm here as a private individual who is a life long fisher that is extremely interested in the conservation of our wild salmonid resources and the ecosystems in which they live. I have long felt that the long term persistence of that resource is dependent on there being dedicated and educated users willing to lobby for that resource and be willing to put aside there own needs if needed. Rightly or wrongly I thought that bring insights and observations from my somewhat unique background to this group of obvious dediate anglers would be a step in meeting that goal.

Tilton Spring Chinook
You seem to want to make an issue of this. I previously ignored your "facts" as being irrelevant, but here are my thoughts. You stated: "Since I have given you factual information showing you that both spring chinook and falls did not utilizes the area (Tilton) to any large degree".

1) For spring chinook to move from or to the upper basin the chinook they must get pass Mayfield Dam. So fish passage is key regardless where the fish are going to the Tilton or above Cowlitz Falls.

2) Typically spring chinook and fall chinook populations are characterized by different spawning times. In the NW spring chinook typically spawn from late July to late September while fall chinook typicall spwan from late September to mid-December. In a review of the hatchery escapement reports for 2002 and 2001 on WDFW's web site I found that at the Cowlitz hatchery spring chinook spawn from mid-August to late September while the fall fish spawn from late September/early October to early November. In most of western Washington redds are visible from the air for about 3 weeks (21 days from Smith and Castle). As a consequence a spawning flight at the time of the peak fall spawning (3rd week of October?) would be after the time that the spring chinook redds would still be visible during the flight. So in fact you have not supplied any factual proof that spring chinook don't use the Tilton. Now they may not use the Tilton but you have not made your case.

3) The fact that only a few redds were seen I my mind does not mean that efforts could not or should be made to allow the chinook (be they fall or spring stock or both) to estalbish wild production. For me clearly chinook have used the area and they need to included.

Passage criteria -
I agree with you the criteria pushed by WDFW (Koeings) isn't the most desirable. The success of the program should have considered coho and spring chinook and winter steelhead and fall chinook and summer steelhead.

I think that we need to agree that we have differrent priorities and move on. Clearly you spend considerable time and effort working for you beliefs. I applaud that effort. In my book you have earned the right to complain about the process and air your gripes however that doesn't mean I have to buy into your position.

I'm sure we'll have the opportunity to debate other issues.

Tight lines
Smalma