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#1013296 - 08/30/19 01:01 PM Your help is needed/ Point No Point Boat Ramp
ned Offline
Spawner

Registered: 06/09/07
Posts: 609
Loc: MA 5, 9, 10
More politics....
For the last 20 months, publicity about this project was suppressed as the new WDFW administration asked for calm waters as they attempted to negotiate with objecting parties. Those negotiations have failed, so we are back to being vocal.

In 2013, the WDFW submitted a permit application to the US Army Corps of Engineers to complete the in-water ramp work for a single-lane boat launch at Point No Point. The public, WDFW-owned property is paved and striped for truck/trailer rigs, the lighting is all in, stormwater runoff and ADA bathrooms...all completed except the single-lane boat ramp. The Suquamish tribe remains opposed to the permit, stating that more boat traffic in that U&A will create unsafe conditions for their fishery. Therefore, the Corps has balked at ruling on this permit application. Last I heard, this WDFW application was the second-oldest in their "Inbox", at 2100 days old tomorrow (since Nov 2013). Advocates of completing the ramp have launched a public information campaign, and we're asking you to email those involved to voice your support.

Why should you do this?
If the Corps rules that boats launched at this ramp WILL cause unsafe conditions for the tribal fishery, it will set a precedent, and that same opposition can be filed against ANY launch (your local launch) when you apply for an in-water work permit as required by the Corps. Surface waters are federal/public property, and no one should have the right to restrict access.

Please check into the web site, and email those in the "What Can I Do" tab to express your support. There is a lot of documentation attached, so check it out, and thank you for your help.

https://pointnopointramp.com


(Sponsors include PSA, Northwest Marine Trade Assoc., CCA, Bremerton Sportsman's Club, Kitsap Public Parks Advocates, in support of the WDFW permit)




Edited by ned (08/30/19 04:02 PM)

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#1013376 - 09/03/19 12:35 PM Re: Your help is needed/ Point No Point Boat Ramp [Re: ned]
ned Offline
Spawner

Registered: 06/09/07
Posts: 609
Loc: MA 5, 9, 10
Thanks for the PM's and contact emails.

Some asked about the issue of rights to surface, and where the the conflict is.

The tribal assertion (on their letterhead, see web site "Letters") is that:
"Additional boats in the area (from the launch) will affect Tribal fishing by impeding Tribal fishers' ability to maneuver and safely manage fishing gear. " (They are talking about the 150 sq mile, Area 9 in Puget Sound.)

Here is the WDFW reply to that, written to the US Army Corps:
"...that claim implies that the Tribe has exclusive rights to the surface waters within their U&A. WDFW believes the Tribe's off-reservation treaty fishing rights must be exercised in common with all other state citizens. The public has the right to recreate and fish over the state's navigable waters." (Again, see "Letters")


...So, the tribal assertion, if accepted by the Corps, could be made at ANY ramp in the state, no matter where you are. This is not just a Point No Point issue.



...So, the tribal assertion, if accepted by the Corps, could be made at EVERY ramp in the state, no matter where you are. This is not just a Point No Point issue.


Edited by ned (09/03/19 12:39 PM)

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#1013387 - 09/03/19 03:05 PM Re: Your help is needed/ Point No Point Boat Ramp [Re: ned]
Larry B Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 10/22/09
Posts: 2708
Loc: University Place and Whidbey I...
Remember that this entire fiasco could have been avoided had WDFW been willing and able to pay the Suquamish the monies the Tribe demanded as compensation for possible future "damage" to their treaty fisheries.

And, no, I am in no way suggesting that WDFW should have knuckled under to that demand.
_________________________
Remember to immediately record your catch or you may become the catch!

It's the person who has done nothing who is sure nothing can be done. (Ewing)

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#1013409 - 09/04/19 08:35 AM Re: Your help is needed/ Point No Point Boat Ramp [Re: ned]
Bay wolf Offline
Spawner

Registered: 10/26/12
Posts: 919
Loc: Graham, WA
Does anyone remember when sportsmen could fish the rivers the same time as the tribes were netting? Do you remember that it was on one river (the Puyallup) that the tribes first demanded (and won) the exclusive use of the rivers for netting, based on conflict. Which I might add was more speculative that substantiated. Now the exclusive use of the river is common practice. Sportsmen loose days to fish. Almost all the rivers are listed as "navigable waters" in Western Washington by the way.

Does anyone remember when Citizens of this state could fish on the Skokomish River? Another river that is listed as Navigable. And one in which State funded fish are exclusively given to the tribes.

Does anyone see a trend here...

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#1013413 - 09/04/19 11:41 AM Re: Your help is needed/ Point No Point Boat Ramp [Re: Bay wolf]
Larry B Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 10/22/09
Posts: 2708
Loc: University Place and Whidbey I...
Originally Posted By: Bay wolf
Does anyone remember when sportsmen could fish the rivers the same time as the tribes were netting? Do you remember that it was on one river (the Puyallup) that the tribes first demanded (and won) the exclusive use of the rivers for netting, based on conflict. Which I might add was more speculative that substantiated. Now the exclusive use of the river is common practice. Sportsmen loose days to fish. Almost all the rivers are listed as "navigable waters" in Western Washington by the way.

Does anyone remember when Citizens of this state could fish on the Skokomish River? Another river that is listed as Navigable. And one in which State funded fish are exclusively given to the tribes.

Does anyone see a trend here...


WDFW's major gaff in the PNP project was breaking it into separate mini-projects and then proceeding with the upland portion prior to obtaining the necessary USACE permit for the in-water work (ramp). That gave tremendous leverage to the tribes.

Complicit in this mess has been the USACE which has encouraged WDFW efforts to negotiate when it has been apparent that at least one of the co-managers has been absolutely unwilling to participate w/r/t the potential future impact on fisheries issue. This is designed as a simple one lane ramp on an existing publicly accessible site and yet it was at last count the next to oldest permit application on the USACE's desk. Frankly, the Corps has shirked its responsibility to the general public and citizens.

Not to be left out is the WDFW Commission which, while supportive of the ramp completion, at some point should have given clear instructions to the Director to attempt to engage personally with the USACE's Seattle area Commander. Had such an effort been rebuffed it would have provided more indication of the USACE's intransigence.

As to this potentially representing a huge precedent just keep in mind that the USACE has to provide all tribes with U&A covering a project area the opportunity to comment on in water projects to include even the location of recreational mooring buoys. And it is apparent that the USACE is extremely reluctant to establish cut-off dates for comments let alone enforce those which they do create. In short, permit applications may lie dormant for years in the face of a tribal objection no matter how trivial to even include assertions that the tribe hasn't had time to review an application.
_________________________
Remember to immediately record your catch or you may become the catch!

It's the person who has done nothing who is sure nothing can be done. (Ewing)

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#1013741 - 09/11/19 08:16 AM Re: Your help is needed/ Point No Point Boat Ramp [Re: ned]
Toy Boat Offline
Returning Adult

Registered: 04/20/04
Posts: 261
Loc: Greenlake
Thanks for your message and for raising this issue. I do not have enough information to make a judgment on the merits of this issue. Even if I did, I would be extremely reluctant to use state resources to weigh in on one side of a disputed permit application pending before a federal agency.



Best wishes, Jamie





Senator Jamie Pedersen

43rd Legislative District

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#1013752 - 09/11/19 11:45 AM Re: Your help is needed/ Point No Point Boat Ramp [Re: Toy Boat]
Larry B Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 10/22/09
Posts: 2708
Loc: University Place and Whidbey I...
Originally Posted By: Toy Boat
Thanks for your message and for raising this issue. I do not have enough information to make a judgment on the merits of this issue. Even if I did, I would be extremely reluctant to use state resources to weigh in on one side of a disputed permit application pending before a federal agency.



Best wishes, Jamie





Senator Jamie Pedersen

43rd Legislative District


I guess it is nice to have received a response but it totally ignores how irresponsible the USACE has been in its processing of the permit application. It has been over three years since the USACE responded to the WDFW that they (USACE) were moving forward with permit review.
_________________________
Remember to immediately record your catch or you may become the catch!

It's the person who has done nothing who is sure nothing can be done. (Ewing)

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#1013756 - 09/11/19 12:19 PM Re: Your help is needed/ Point No Point Boat Ramp [Re: Larry B]
MPM Offline
Spawner

Registered: 12/09/08
Posts: 742
Loc: Seattle, WA
Jamie Peterson is a smart guy, but I wouldn't count on him for anything that isn't already in his own interest or on his own agenda.

At least we know where he stands on this.

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#1013762 - 09/11/19 01:18 PM Re: Your help is needed/ Point No Point Boat Ramp [Re: ned]
bushbear Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 08/26/02
Posts: 4614
Loc: Sequim
I would think that the expenditure of state funds to date should be enough to make our state legislators at least ask the USACE when the ramp might be expected to be finished. In addition to the contacts listed, your appropriate Federal Representative and Senators should be ccd. They can put pressure on the Corps.

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#1013787 - 09/11/19 05:29 PM Re: Your help is needed/ Point No Point Boat Ramp [Re: ned]
ned Offline
Spawner

Registered: 06/09/07
Posts: 609
Loc: MA 5, 9, 10
"""" ...... I would be extremely reluctant to use state resources to weigh in on one side of a disputed permit application pending before a federal agency."""""

Reluctant to use State resources? This is a WDFW/State permit application. Not ours. How much more "State" can it get? The State has already put $3-$4 million into it, not counting administrative pay over the last 6 years the file has been active.

We're not a rogue group demanding some outlandish goal. This is the path prescribed by law for the permitting process; there is no alternate path. We're supporting the State WDFW's objective. We're asking why, when WDFW has used/paid for Northwest Marine Fisheries Service biologists, State biologist, State and private engineers and so on, that the Corps cannot timely processing of an application that they provided in the first place. ( p.s. today is Day 2,111 since the permit app was delivered to the Corps.)

Please clarify why you would would be reluctant to use resources to support a state WDFW objective that obtained its Shoreline Development Permit in 2011, is 90% complete, and provides what the local constituency overwhelmingly support?


Edited by ned (09/11/19 05:31 PM)

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#1013799 - 09/11/19 08:09 PM Re: Your help is needed/ Point No Point Boat Ramp [Re: ned]
GutZ Offline
The Original Boat Ho

Registered: 02/08/00
Posts: 2948
Loc: Bellevue
email sent
_________________________
It's good to have friends
It's better to have friends with boats
***GutZ***

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