First of all I want to say I have the utmost respect for Letty Potter. She always has the courage to enter these controversial threads with what she sees as facts, and presents them cordially. Thank you Letty. Many of her statements are correct, but some may be incorrect without her specific knowledge of what has repeatedly been reported on several fishing website BB's; such as what Bremelo and the agreeing poster mentioned happened to them by Indian netters on the rivers. And the guy from Chilliwack has not read closely enough the many posts within, such as mine, in which we specifically said "not all Native Americans" are into resouce overharvest, but many are. That's NOT grouping all Indian people together! Nor are the sportfishermen's complaints here about hook and line snaggers grouping all white people together as poachers. Get some open eyes and get real! And Chilly, you turned around hypocritically and grouped "all you Washington sportys" together as nate bonkers, which couldn't be further from the truth!!! Most of us release nates and would prefer a state reg for mandatory C&R only on native steelhead statewide, as it mostly is in Oregon (one or 2 exceptions if I remember correctly). The problem with that is apparently the idiotic management of the WDF&G is such that when sportfishers don't harvest a certain number of nates out on the OP then the Indian netters get to up their take!?! That is about as idiotic of reasoning as I have ever heard the human race mis-reason! You also said that commercial ocean and river harvest by whites is the main culprit in this problem. Let me inform you that those commercial catches are included along with sportfishers catches in the 50/50 Treaty split equations; and they don't target steelhead! Since the seeming intractable Indian netting is going to continue to take a large number of native steelhead then it's even more important for us sportsmen to C&R these fish to allow enough spawning escapement to occur. If the runs are deemed healthy then let's err on the side of keeping them that way, rather than promote more C&K bonking "or we'll allow the Indian netters to take even more of them"; thus allowing the Indians to go even further above the Treaty law's 50/50 split than they already are going over. That's insanity! Who in hell is at the bottom of this fiasco within the WDF&G?!? Someone up there find out and let us all know. Thanks.

RT

WDFW does not believe that forgone opportunity would affect allocation issues; they're attorneys have stated as such. They believe (as I hope) that C&R is considered a fully utilized resource, which is the same as "harvest", hence the allocation numbers should be left alone. It is the Department of Interior and Department of Commerce attorneys (home of NMFS and U.S.FWS) that believe that foregone opportunity is valid and should be interpreted as "harvest, such that any fish in the stream that aren't killed by other user groups, go to the tribes.

I don't think forgone opportunity has been tested with steelhead; at least I haven't seen it come up on Puget Sound streams. But I do think there is reasonable legal standing to win this battle. WDFW thinks this issue is as big a headache as we do.

Hey Canada Guy,

Do you personally set your seasons up there in B.C.? Well, here in Wa, State, we have a commission that sets seasons. So you can get off your high horse

The VAST majority of the anglers on this BB would love to see a statewide C&R regulation in place on native steelhead. Unfortunately, the WDFW and some of our brethren around the state don't see it that way. They believe we should keep C&K regs in place until a run is depressed enough to close the season completely.

If you think you can change the seasons here in Washington to reflect your own personal feelings on the matter, then be my guest. Otherwise you can point that finger from north of the border at somebody else.

Your points about lumping tribal members together as one homogeneous people is correct, there are bad apples in every barrel. But if you think I'm going to listen to you say I can't complain about the netting going on in the Chehalis system right now because "my" WDFW Commission deemed C&K seasons appropriate, then you, sir, are mistaken.

I don't like the C&K seasons on wild steelhead and I like the commercial sale of wild steelhead even less, and I'll complain about both practices on this BB, to my elected officials, to the WDFW, and to the fish jockeys at Pike Place any time I feel like it because that's my right as an American. If it bothers you that much to read, then why not make life easy on yourself and stop reading it?

Fish on..........

Thanks for the info Obsessed. I should have known that it was the Dept. of the Interior (Sec. Order # 3206) and the 'never fished before' guys in top power at the NMFS that were behind the idiom on the OP. Just like they are for the idiom of allowing the Columbia Indian Tribes to net over 10 times the number of springers than the sportfishers get; despite the sportys C&R on non-clipped fish, as opposed to the gillnet killing of all nates swimming into them! That's sure an indefensable way to stick to the Treaty and Federal Court review case mandates to split the fish, deemed harvestable, evenly at 50/50 between the Indians and non-Indians.

CONQUERED NATION!!!!!!! No rights should be any different then ours..All Indians want to use our SSI,welfare..ect.But want to call themselves a "sovereign nation" Give me a frickin break..They want all the kickbacks from the government but think they should have different laws then the rest of us. Heritage I'll give that another

Hey TM
I know you have fished the Skok and out at hoodcanal. Now every time that I have been out there I have seen at least two or three nets in the river on the days when they are susposed to be out. I was jsut wounderin if you have ever noticed that two.

Now I am not sayin that all tribes are like that but it kinda leaves a sour taste in my mouth after see in that. One more thing did the I dont mind that the natives net the rivers but come on using a motor to scare the fish into the nets only to keep the hens. I have seen the skok tribe net the king run and after they have sein the hole they through the bucks on the bank and leave them for dead.

Now correct me if I am wrong but I think that is kinda of Rubbing it in our face. Sayin we can take what ever we want.

About the Natives hunting when ever they want where ever they want. There used to be a few bull elk that roamed the skok vally but not any more thanks in part to the natives.

Hey the natives get to go after the hatchery fish and the nates so does that mean we get to go after the AAAAHHHHHHHHH Never MIND

[ 04-06-2001: Message edited by: danceswithfish ]

he he he he, calm down Beavis.

The kid do have a way with words, don't he?

Hey_yall
Was that a compliment
Your not going soft on us are you

This kinda Shi# really gets me worked up some times thats all. And I have some free time on my hands for once

RT,
My point was not to lump all WA anglers as killers of wild fish. The point I was trying to make (and I didn't do a good job of it) was, and is that as long as there is a Statewide kill on Wild Fish, it will be hard to remove the nets from the rivers.
I don't have any first hand knowledge of your States tribal netting so I shouldn't have offered an opinion on it. In BC, anglers tend to blame all bad fishing on the Natives, when in reality they cause the resource little harm here. It appears, from all your comments, that they are a more harmful usegroup in your State.

ML

f'n'b,

That's not entirely true here, either. Our non-tribal commercial netters still catch the largest numbers of any user group, but what gets under our skin is that the tribes TARGET native steelhead, as evidenced by the netting still going on in the Chehalis system. This particular system had been C&R on natives for several years, so while we go about releasing native steelhead the tribes go about harvesting them for commercial sale at Pike Place Market.

The tribes get more heat than they probably deserve because the are the most visible user group. When you see a net being pulled that contians nothing but native steelhead, it gets one riled up. No more riled than seeing some lunkhead angler (especially guides) whack a nate, but riled nonetheless.

It's a heated topic in these parts, and this discussion is bound to lead to heated responses, but what do you expect? We're talking about the future of the sport we all love, there's bound to be passionate opinions on both sides.


Fish on.........

dwf-I have seen some weird $hit on the Skok also!For years now I have went out on the Skok and cut nets out that have been there for months and I watched them and seen they were not going to pull them so I cut them out.I have cut out gill nets in Feb.that had 50 chum heads(rotten) hanging out of the net.. What happens when a few steelie nates come by??NETTEDand they would just rot there..I called the game warden and he gave me the # to the tribal cops and guess what...NOTHING WAS DONE ABOUT ITenuff rambling I could go on for hours about it..TM

I just wanted to say that I would love to go fishing with Potter on the reservation, were I can't go because I am a white man, and I would tell her that if those ****ing nets weren't in the river I could have caught a hell of a lot more fish on the upper Chehalis when I was a kid beating the river to death trying to learn to be a better fishermen. Just sharing the run of fish would be nice beside the fact that netting is a bunch of crap.

potter, i bet you know how much they get because you probly guide on the weekends and gillnet durring the week, am i correct ?

WDFW web page in whats new section tribal schedule Chehalis river nets in 4 days a week untill april 12th Then they will start targeting springers too!!!!! Bathtub Bob