Check

 

Defiance Boats!

LURECHARGE!

THE PP OUTDOOR FORUMS

Kast Gear!

Power Pro Shimano Reels G Loomis Rods

  Willie boats! Puffballs!

 

Three Rivers Marine

 

 
Page 3 of 10 < 1 2 3 4 5 ... 9 10 >
Topic Options
Rate This Topic
#266664 - 05/13/04 07:10 PM Re: War on terror v. War in Iraq
Dan S. Offline
It all boils down to this - I'm right, everyone else is wrong, and anyone who disputes this is clearly a dumbfuck.

Registered: 03/07/99
Posts: 16039
Loc: SE Olympia, WA
You could make a case for a premptive strike against about 2 dozen countries then, couldn't you?
_________________________
She was standin' alone over by the juke box, like she'd something to sell.
I said "baby, what's the goin' price?" She told me to go to hell.

Bon Scott - Shot Down in Flames

Top
#266665 - 05/13/04 07:10 PM Re: War on terror v. War in Iraq
jeff'e'd Offline
Spawner

Registered: 07/10/00
Posts: 978
Loc: Snohomish, WA USA
wow...... you go AM!

Top
#266666 - 05/13/04 07:12 PM Re: War on terror v. War in Iraq
Theking Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 10/10/03
Posts: 4908
Loc: The right side of the line
Geeeez Aunty you no nothing about me but you draw so many conclusions. That goes against your own logic.

I can name 5 widows in my immeadiate family that are such to defend your right to call me names via that very computer. Don't tell me about sacrifice my family is in the 4th generation of it.
_________________________
Liberalism is a mental illness!

Top
#266667 - 05/13/04 07:21 PM Re: War on terror v. War in Iraq
Theking Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 10/10/03
Posts: 4908
Loc: The right side of the line
Dan,

Yes you sure can. it would not be a smart thing to do. So you have to try alternative strategies until your hand is forced. If you look at the grass roots movement that is driving what they call "radical Islam" it presents a big problem. Not counting NK. You have to remember this movement has called for a return to the historical boundries of the Ottoman empire and the destruction of Isreal. That means a big chunck of real estate would have to be converted to Islamic states. This is not a new idea and is based on religous interpretation and is 200+ years old. It cannot be negotiated our bought out to appease those driving the movement. It is not just Osama he is just the first face we will see. It is bigger than most can imagine and will last our lifetime.
_________________________
Liberalism is a mental illness!

Top
#266669 - 05/13/04 07:23 PM Re: War on terror v. War in Iraq
Theking Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 10/10/03
Posts: 4908
Loc: The right side of the line
AM,

Thank you for revealing your true character.
_________________________
Liberalism is a mental illness!

Top
#266670 - 05/13/04 07:25 PM Re: War on terror v. War in Iraq
papaslap Offline
Spawner

Registered: 07/02/03
Posts: 660
Loc: Olympia
wow take a chill pill and go back to being just a fat cow
_________________________
"Hunting is the only sport that I know of, in which one of the participants doesn't know that he is in the game." John Madden

Top
#266671 - 05/13/04 07:26 PM Re: War on terror v. War in Iraq
Dan S. Offline
It all boils down to this - I'm right, everyone else is wrong, and anyone who disputes this is clearly a dumbfuck.

Registered: 03/07/99
Posts: 16039
Loc: SE Olympia, WA
I don't disagree. I personally believe our all-out effort should have been focused on Afghanistan and wiping out Al Qaeda, rather than invading Iraq. I believe that Saddam was a threat only to his neighbors in the Middle East.

I don't believe our hand was forced by Hussein. I believe Bush played the hand he had in mind, ignoring the other cards already on the table. The bad thing is, he's betting Americans' lives, not poker chips.
_________________________
She was standin' alone over by the juke box, like she'd something to sell.
I said "baby, what's the goin' price?" She told me to go to hell.

Bon Scott - Shot Down in Flames

Top
#266673 - 05/13/04 07:32 PM Re: War on terror v. War in Iraq
Theking Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 10/10/03
Posts: 4908
Loc: The right side of the line
Dan,

I can see your point. And could agree with that course as well from the outside looking in. I can only assume that he had more info and reason to take the course he did. History has shown America to always atempt to do the right thing. It has not always worked out that way in the end but it started that way. I believe that in this case as well.
_________________________
Liberalism is a mental illness!

Top
#266674 - 05/13/04 07:47 PM Re: War on terror v. War in Iraq
Dan S. Offline
It all boils down to this - I'm right, everyone else is wrong, and anyone who disputes this is clearly a dumbfuck.

Registered: 03/07/99
Posts: 16039
Loc: SE Olympia, WA
I just hope things turn around and work out for us in the end. The middle east seems to be a quagmire that draws you in, but doesn't let you out.

The Soviet commander of troops in Afghanistan said it pretty well. "Afghanistan is easy to get in to...........it's much harder to get out of." I think the same could be said of Iraq.

I'm hoping for the best, though.
_________________________
She was standin' alone over by the juke box, like she'd something to sell.
I said "baby, what's the goin' price?" She told me to go to hell.

Bon Scott - Shot Down in Flames

Top
#266675 - 05/13/04 07:48 PM Re: War on terror v. War in Iraq
PhishPhreak Offline
Repeat Spawner

Registered: 06/19/01
Posts: 1083
Loc: North Bend, WA
Quote:
And they LET it happen. That doesn't mean we need to go in and kill MORE innocents
They LET it happen???? Just like the Jews let Hitler kill them, right? What's your point? My point is that he HAD and USED WMDs.

If you add up the total Iraqi casualties per month or year since the war, then compare that number to the number of Iraqis killed by Saddam while he was in power, you'll see that the Iraqi people have been much more safe with Saddam gone.

Quote:
And so have many other Islamic countries that we DIDN'T attack
Again, you have to use all the data. Other counrties do have parts of the equation, but you have to start with the worst offender first. Who knows, maybe Syria is next. But then again, maybe they'll make the smart choice and work with us like Lybia has been doing recently:
Libya Agrees to End Military Trade With North Korea, Syria, Iran

Quote:
The lack of the UN agreeing to our actions meant they all thought WHO was a threat?
The UN did not support our actions but they were in agreement that Iraq was a threat. But appently some countries, like France for example, don't actually understand how to follow through with a threat\promise. They're idea of 'handling the situation' is something like "Stop, or I'll say "Stop" again!!". Also, if you think the UN isn't corruptable, practically impotent, and largely 'anti-american', then you need to double check your history...

Quote:
Flip flopped? What were they going to do, take us on themselves?
The flip flop is what many of the the US Polititians, media, and foreign leaders did once they realized Bush meant business. Iraq went from 'serious threat' to 'victim' quicker than...

Quote:
So far, all I have been given is rhetoric. We posess every single one of the weapons you mentioned numbering far higher than anything Saddam had or had the ability to produce
We posses those weapons, as do many of the countries that make up the UN. Do you sleep well at night knowing that the US has nukes? How about Russia or China? North Korea? What if we find out that Bin Ladin actually got his hands on some 'dirty bombs' or other nucular devices that could show up in any major or minor port and city accross the country?? The war on terror is an effort to stop that from happening.

Quote:
There are NO Iraqi soldiers on US soil. They did NOT attack us, and so far, we have discovered NO REAL evidence that they planned to.

WE ARE THE TERRORISTS
No, we are at war. We have never targeted civilians as the terrorists have. They use them as sheilds, and that is unfortunate. But we've done a great job of keeping civilians out of harms way considering the tight quarters and wide use of human sheilds. But I'll be sure and send along your condemnation to our troops on the ground and let them know that they are just 'low life terrorists' and they won't be welcome back here....

Top
#266676 - 05/13/04 08:09 PM Re: War on terror v. War in Iraq
4Salt Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 03/07/00
Posts: 3002
Loc: Lynnwood, WA
AuntyM for President!
_________________________
A day late and a dollar short...

Top
#266677 - 05/13/04 08:14 PM Re: War on terror v. War in Iraq
jeff'e'd Offline
Spawner

Registered: 07/10/00
Posts: 978
Loc: Snohomish, WA USA
I have one simple threshold that I hold to whether this war is justified. Would I send my sons to fight this Iraq war and the answer is "HELL NOOOOOO." Thank God, they are too young or this Hawking president would suck them over there to fight his ilconceived grudge match.

PP you can spin this all you want but this Adminsistration said there were (2) primary reasons for going to war.

(1) WMD.
(2) links to terrorists and Alchieda.

As time has gone on and the 1st (2) haven't panned out (not one shred of concrete proof has been provided), additional ones keep gettting added, like "to remove a brutal dicator." We'll, Iim sorry, but that's not worth my son's dying for!!!

If there were actual links to terrorists it would be different. But there aint!

Top
#266679 - 05/13/04 08:48 PM Re: War on terror v. War in Iraq
h2o Offline
Carcass

Registered: 10/31/02
Posts: 2227
Loc: Portland
an example of our overexposure based on my own 'intel'...

Iran may have the bomb.

They have the opportunity to deliver the bomb on the ground through a Shi'a network....

...How many troops are in or around Baghdad again?? Who is Iraq's biggest enemy in the region besides the US?

AuntyM....

...please tell me you've changed your vote or are at least thinking about it. If not, I'd be curious to know why....

I'd still like to address the major point of this thread with anyone willing....is the war in Iraq the same as the war on terror and if not, what are we doing there?
_________________________
"Christmas is an American holiday." - micropterus101

Top
#266681 - 05/13/04 10:02 PM Re: War on terror v. War in Iraq
h2o Offline
Carcass

Registered: 10/31/02
Posts: 2227
Loc: Portland
I'm not excited about Kerry either.

The thing is, I could vote for someone conservative if they ditched some of their baggage.

After all, I DID vote for senior the first time.

How's this for a power play...Powell switches parties in 2006 no matter the outcome of this election. He could run against and beat Kerry in the primaries and steal a huge piece of the pretty solid righty voting block....

First black president and first challenger to beat an incumbent president in the primaries all in one.

I ain't holding my breath on Kerry winning, though.
_________________________
"Christmas is an American holiday." - micropterus101

Top
#266682 - 05/14/04 10:50 AM Re: War on terror v. War in Iraq
Theking Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 10/10/03
Posts: 4908
Loc: The right side of the line
AM,

"TK, I don't want you dead..... your own comments make it appear that you would welcome it! You're PROUD of the widows in your family. "

Yes you do or you would not have said it. Yes proud that members of my family fought for their country. Sometimes you die for what you really believe in because living with out it is not worth it. You may not like to admit it but the price of your freedom was paid with blood. You owe it to those that sacrificed at least honor and respect.

They say you have to much when you forget how you came by it. We will have to agree to disagree because I can have no respect for someone that calls our country "terrorist". So it could only get ugly.
_________________________
Liberalism is a mental illness!

Top
#266684 - 05/14/04 01:33 PM Re: War on terror v. War in Iraq
PhishPhreak Offline
Repeat Spawner

Registered: 06/19/01
Posts: 1083
Loc: North Bend, WA
"white supremicist views"

I keep seeing you use that phrase. Do you have any idea what it means? I bet any guy here who use the phrase to discribe would welcome Condeleza Rice to run as VP with GW. Oh, wait. She's black, and a women! Where's my white sheet and pointy hat?? :rolleyes:

Top
#266686 - 05/14/04 02:30 PM Re: War on terror v. War in Iraq
PhishPhreak Offline
Repeat Spawner

Registered: 06/19/01
Posts: 1083
Loc: North Bend, WA
LOL - nice try...

Top
#266688 - 05/14/04 05:26 PM Re: War on terror v. War in Iraq
Salmo g. Online   content
River Nutrients

Registered: 03/08/99
Posts: 12859
Aunty M,

Way to go, youíve captured most of my feelings in your posts in this thread, altho wishing TK dead was a foul, but I see how you qualified it - not that Iím OK with it, however. I didnít know Iíd feel this way, but Iím inclined to believe that our country should never allow chicken-hawks to conduct any war. I like your idea about Storminí Norman. The manís a pro, and along with Colin Powell, are at least qualified to direct this sordid business.

H2O,

The war on terror and the war in Iraq couldnít be more distinctly separate. Unfortunately, we are obligated - in my opinion - to leave Iraq in better shape than before we invaded it, and move on with the so-called war on terror.

I think the war on terror has been missing the most important analysis. Why are terrorists aiming at the U.S.? Other conservatives question patriotism and make other unthinking remarks every time the theme of what motivates anti-U.S. terrorism is mentioned. Trying to understand the cause of terrorism is not caving in to or appeasing terrorist. Rather, it is by understanding cause and effect relationships is how solutions are developed. Unfortunately, unless the root cause or causes of anti-U.S. terrorism are directly addressed, chicken-hawk Rummy is correct: we have to kill them faster than they can be produced and recruited. That, however, isnít a realistic option.

Iíd like to side-track a moment and look at the production/recruitment process. Iím told there are about a billion Muslims in the world. Although they outnumber the U.S., they know they could never defeat us, if truly they even have that interest in general - i.e., that nearly all Muslims harbor an interest in a world without the U.S. or other infidels. Given that, does anyone really believe that Muslim mothers and fathers are purposely raising their children as cannon fodder for an impossible war against the U.S.? Seems incredible to me. I only know a very few Muslims, and they are not radical at all. Theyíre only hipocritical in that they drink alcohol, and their religion forbids it. Otherwise they seem like me. Just want to raise and educate their kids and see them live useful and productive lives. They are not even anti-Jew; but they are anti-Israeli government for its terrorism of Palestinians. And they oppose the U.S.í unwavering support of the Israeli government at the expense of the Palestinians. It seems like their values are rather similar to mine, except that I value fishing in a way theyíll never understand. The upshot is that producing and recruiting terrorists doesnít show up on their value lists.

So if we fail to identify and directly address the root causes of anti-U.S. terrorism, what is the likelihood of making the U.S. as secure as we used to feel it was? My estimate is zero. Because itís unrealistic to believe we can kill them faster than they can be produced and recruited.

Sincerely,

Salmo g.

Top
#266689 - 05/14/04 05:34 PM Re: War on terror v. War in Iraq
jeff'e'd Offline
Spawner

Registered: 07/10/00
Posts: 978
Loc: Snohomish, WA USA
Welcome back Salmo,

Since you brought up root cause, you can't divorse the politics of US support or non-support of Isreal. That's where our leadership and negotiation skills need to come into play to accomplish what you're talking about.

Top
#266691 - 05/14/04 07:22 PM Re: War on terror v. War in Iraq
Theking Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 10/10/03
Posts: 4908
Loc: The right side of the line
AM,

Another emotional response with out logic or responsibility.
_________________________
Liberalism is a mental illness!

Top
Page 3 of 10 < 1 2 3 4 5 ... 9 10 >

Moderator:  elparquito 
Search

Site Links
Home
Our Washington Fishing
Our Alaska Fishing
Reports
Rates
Contact Us
About Us
Recipes
Photos / Videos
Visit us on Facebook
Today's Birthdays
I.B.FISHIN, Snoop
Recent Gallery Pix
Hatchery Releases into the Pacific and Harvest
Gibbs Delta Time Capsule
Who's Online
4 registered (NickD90, paguy, Bay wolf, 1 invisible), 311 Guests and 4 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Newest Members
JussieSmolt82, whatfish, BiggPP69420, Wuhan Clan, Fish Stalker77
11454 Registered Users
Top Posters
Todd 25889
Dan S. 16039
Sol Duc 16016
elparquito 13856
Salmo g. 12859
eyeFISH 12555
STRIKE ZONE 12107
Dogfish 10979
ParaLeaks 10513
Jerry Garcia 9159
Forum Stats
11454 Members
18 Forums
75792 Topics
841903 Posts

Max Online: 3001 @ 01/28/20 02:48 PM

Join the PP forums.

It's quick, easy, and always free!

Working for the fish and our future fishing opportunities:

The Wild Steelhead Coalition

The Photo & Video Gallery. Nearly 1200 images from our fishing trips! Tips, techniques, live weight calculator & more in the Fishing Resource Center. The time is now to get prime dates for 2018 Olympic Peninsula Winter Steelhead , don't miss out!.

| HOME | ALASKA FISHING | WASHINGTON FISHING | RIVER REPORTS | FORUMS | FISHING RESOURCE CENTER | CHARTER RATES | CONTACT US | WHAT ABOUT BOB? | PHOTO & VIDEO GALLERY | LEARN ABOUT THE FISH | RECIPES | SITE HELP & FAQ |