Whatever that means.

Come to the game with a brain, and stop shooting out your ass.

I find it interesting that so many people are upset by the new gas tax that will only add 3% or 4% to the cost of a gallon of gas by the time it is fully implemented. The cost for the average driver can be recovered by driving 500 mile less a year. The 9 cents will do little to solve transportation problems. No increase and gridlock or 50 cents a gallon and decreased driving might lead to a real public transportation system.

The part of the discussion (eastside Vs westside, conservative and liberal, who pays taxes and who benefits from taxes) that should be of most interest to steelhead and salmon fisherman was mentioned by Todd. The "billions in farm subsidies", which a large part of is paid to not plant crops. On the West Coast the primary support for dams, irrigation, and reduced stream flows come from the same farmers that receive large farm subsidies. Look at

http://www.ewg.org/reports/CAWaterTakings/execsumm.php

for a well-documented example of the government paying an irrigation group to put water back into the Sacramento River to protect fish. The profit to the irrigators, a small group of the larger recipients of farm subsidies in California, was $38.6 million. The Klamath River basin and the Columbia River basin are subject to the same kinds of taxpayer give aways. This is all money that could be used to protect and enhance fish runs.

For those with the inclination and time all of the farm subsidy data is available online at;

http://www.ewg.org/farm/

The data is available by state, county, and the top recipients in each county. A quick example of what can be learned is looking at a few counties that are near the Snake River dams and the farm subsidy payments for 2003.

Garfield county - $3198 per person
Whitman county - $827 per person
Walla Walla county - $365 per person

And then King count at a whopping $0.70 per person.

The population data is available on the Washington State web side. The above per person figures include the entire population of the county from babies to 100 year old retirees. The actual recipients of the subsides receive several thousand dollars per person. Who was the largest single receipent in 2003 in the Washington State? The friendly farmer putting food on all of our tables, the State of Washington DNR at $1,121,972.

the BLM and US forest service run DEFICITS on leases...so adding what's going on with them would make it the tax numbers look even worse...you're subsidizing guys like the canadian company American Barrick which paid 9765 dollars to mine 10 billion in gold from nevada(one of the company directors just happens to be GWH Bush)...chevron and Manville corps will pay 10000 dollars to take 4 biilion in platinum and palladium from montana...summitville mine im colorado will pay $7000 for 130 million in gold...one guy paid $155 for land but put a 6 million dollar hotel on it.instead

BLM land is leased to cattle grazing at 1/8th the market value...in 2001 the BLM took in 4.5 million in grazing leases but spent 77 million managing the lands. but even at market rates the BLM would still have lost 40 million that year...
75% of all BLM leases are controlled by just 10% of the lesees...guys like hewlett and packard founders or jack simplot...etc...etc....

BW

"So you don't have the proof, right TK.

All anyone wants to see is something to back up what you say. Lets see it."

All I challenged was the source and the methodology I never drew any conclusions. It may in fact be true but no one has posted a data set with methodolgy to prove it. I could shoot 100 holes in just because there is no methodolgy. It may end up being correct or half correct or completely wrong was my point.

But hey around here apparently any source works!

SOTD,

Enlighten us with your wisdom don't take the DanS route and shoot one liners and never engage or claim no one can make you post your position. That would be a Fusky move.

Why engage you? You know everything.....at least according to you.

Is that a tear welling up in your eye?

Ooobity, boobity, boo.


My position is standing with you kneeling in front of me.

I know a lot about a lot of things but you will never know because all you do is what you just did. Why not just post "I am like rubber an you are like glue what bounces off me sticks to you or some other silly little 3rd grade line " or STFU ?

Why don't you make me?

There..........that 3rd-grade enough for you?

My mother hates me...........

I can see why. But I bet she like the Sonics

I don't mind taking the DanS route, or the Salmo G route for that matter. Both of them have more credibility here than you.

But Dan that avitar reminds me of my sister.

Your sister is gonna slap you good for that one! Angus is pretty ugly.

TK would know "my mother hates me" are lyrics from 'Problem Child' if he wasn't such an old goat. :p

I saw ACDC open for Van Halen in 1978 there pup I bet you where still crapping your diapers on the east coast then? Just read Bon Scott bio about 3 months ago. When it comes to music anything I don't know my wife does. Just about any Genre you pick it.

Yea, she's the only person I know that can bend over and crack a frown. :p

And if you were still in school then I can call you a young pup.

Thanks BW if I needed to get my cred fix from you anonymous miscreants that would bring a tear to my eye.

Good for you..........you can remember the show, just not the lyrics.

Calling guys pushing 40 'pup' just shows what an old POS you are.

What about us guys over 50?

TK, I do sometimes feel like that in the morning.

Sorry I just assumed that people that tag line rock bands and lyrics where still reading teen mags? Pretty lame for pushing 40

also,because of the law of 1872 the lesees don't have to clean up or restore the land after everything's gone...current estimates for clean up and restoration are 50 billion dollars....and they don't have to pay any royalties either ....sweet...

To bodysurf:

The numbers are worst case right now because no revenues are being added to the other side. But the operating "costs" of the BLM land, Indian reservations, national forests, and miltary bases are (apparently) being used in the Fed payout-per- person calculation. The more crowded states simply do not have these things to pay for.

When you assume, you make an ass out of you and........well, you.

Uhhh, you saw what show in 1978 there king?

AC/DC was ALREADY a headline act in '78 on the 'Monster's of Rock' tour and Van Halen was the opening act for Black Sabbath that year.

You're either confused, don't know what the hell yer takin' about, or you did too many drugs that day. :p

p.s. That last one I can relate to!