I went on a fishing trip with my brother and my father to the Lyre a few weeks ago. I ended up catching one so I was feeling pretty high and mighty. Three hours later none of us even had a bite so we headed up to the Elwha to try our luck there. My brother took off down the river to see the Indians catch fish in there "Native Ways" you know using knylon nets to make a huge obstacle for returning adult steelies to spawn. Anyways after my brother hadn't come back for thirty minutes I began to walk down river to look for him. A bunch of local Indian children rode up on there bikes and began shouting across the river that I can't fish there. It was true but I wasn't fishing. I just ignoored them but they kept on yelling at me and began to call me racial names like "white a-s" I still paid them know attention but then they started throwing rocks at me luckfully they were so weak they could only throw the rocks three fourths of the way across the massive river. Know that ticked me off, me being a fifteen year old boy having to deal with a bunch of kids a few years younger harassing me about walking down to see the nets. I began shouting my own racial names for Indians across the river and told them to stay where we put them, on the reservation, by the way if you want to here some of them you can E-mail me. I'm not saying I hate all Indians just the one's that act in this manner. What would you hav done in this situation? I would really like to her what some of the younger members of this BB would have done.

They say two wrongs don't make a right , you handeled as best you could given the situation you were in . Having grown up on the Nisqually during all the bolte decision B.S.during the 70's ,hang in there kiddo you will be better for it. you can only turn the other cheek so many times , so if your backed in a corner again or a river bank show them feather heads how a White boy can throw a rock , you have as much right to be there as they do...be safe and Tight Lines...

[This message has been edited by Steelheader boy (edited 01-10-2000).]

This might sound a little harsh, but just think if it was the old cowboy days.

[This message has been edited by Yahoo (edited 01-13-2000).]

If it weren't for the $3.00 mail in fine and having to punch your squaw card the above suggestion would work.
This was intended to be a joke for those who have no sense of humor than I am sorry for you. As a parent I would have crossed the river if possible and took those kids to their parents for a wooping!

[This message has been edited by stever in everett (edited 01-14-2000).]

I dont agree with the racial lingo, but do feel ya should have probably served em a hard curve with a river rock!

Do you know who I am, Iron?! I'm sure you'd recognize me if you fish the Lyre or Elwah a little bit... Anyway, I've encountered indians in just about every form you possibly could fishing mainly the Elwah.. I've over the years become "friends" with most of them, and for the most part, just stay out of their way... Many of them, due to the small amount of respect, will not only leave me alone, but guys fishing near me... When I get down to the river, and there is one down there, half the time, before I even have a chance to say hi or whatever, they are giving me a small wave or a nod as they see me coming! As well as small talk and conversation once I am fishing! Sometimes turning the other cheek can make a big difference... So can outfishing them once in a while =) Nets can be a hard thing on the runs, but I don't have enough fingers to count how many times I have landed more fish than a net right above or below me. Next time just try turning the other cheek, and when you see them coming, or an indian coming, just stop what you are doing, meet them halfway and just start talking in a friendly way.. Say hi.. It just might make the difference...

Just some advice from an 18 year old that has been fishing it for 12 years =)

Tom

tell ya` what,I`m not of the younger posters on this site, but I`m going to put in my piece anyways,,you never mentioned if your brother had any problem or if he even encountered them, but they were just what you said, kids,,being a young buck yourself, you`ve probably been in a situation similar to that one, maybe not on a river or even a playground but I can`t imagine kids never having been in a situation similar, Even myself had been there,(many moons ago) but minus the racial burbs you probably should have tried talking with them , although not being there, nobody can say for sure but yourself, (like asking them if they seen your brother perhaps)may have been a break in the ice..just guessing at this stage..

I'm not young anymore either but when I was in College I fished the Nooksack a lot. Try having a drunk stumble up to you while you're fishing, look at you and then set a net out right in your drift. What can you do? Nothing. It's his right. Then the same guy shows up in the tavern that night trying to sell steelhead or salmon to drink more. Is this all indians? NO. I knew many that were more moral and spiritual about the land than the vast majority of people. It's the same as anywhere. There are good and bad, respectful and non-respectful. Sounds to me like those kids haven't been raised right.

Yours was a frustration situation Iron. While thereis no answer that will feel good to you perhaps the best thing to do is to find the high ground. It is always easier to defend. When I was your age I watch the fish cops beat the crap out of the indians that choose to exercise their treaty rights.
That course of action only lost ground for all of us. It is most important for all of us to recognize the diversity of our society. We all have our quirks and ways we like to do things. Dosn't make us wrong or bad just different. Same goes for those we share the rivers with regardless of the type of gear we choose to use. Be it bait or hardware or flies or net. All are fishemen. That is our common ground and it is there that eentually we must all meet if there are to be any fish left in the rivers for my grandkids to chase.
Iron, it was a hard spot you were in and in truth I would have acted no better when i was your age. Today I would try to do differently. Thanks for the fishing tips Good luck and tight lines

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Iron, ya probably should've acknowledged them early on, or said something like "I'm not fishing!" If I see a fellow fisher doing something illegal, I consider it common river courtesy to let the person know what the law is. Ignorant anglers that have been popped for using bait and/or barbs in a selective fishery know what I'm talking about, especially when they tangled with the guy next to him/her and that person didn't say anything about the illegal rigging.

Also, If I see someone fishing illegally, or think I see someone fishing illegally, I'm going to say something. If he/she dosen't acknowledge me then that person is no longer a fisher, but a poacher.

I don't advocate racial slurs or throwing rocks on the river. But, in some cultures not acknowledging someone is worse than yelling at them using invectives. The bottom line is that we all must communicate on the river and in life. They may have been Native American teenagers, but I'm positive they speak a common language: English.

I have lived in Washington all of my life and haven't left the state for more than fifteen days so I guess you could say I'm a Native American to right. I mean I was born here in 1984 at Bremerton memorial hospital. Oh and by the way in my book netting doesn't count as fishing. What skill does netting take?

Hey Iron I agree completely about the indians and their DAMN NETS!!! If the state wants the indians to have their fair share why cant they fish the rivers just like we do, with a rod and reel. You know I dont see any commercial fisherman fishing the rivers, let alone useing nets. If the indians want to fish the rivers I say they use a rod and reel or a spear like in traditional ways!!!!

Iron, my advice to you is, when you graduate from high school go to an out-of-state college. The East Coast or maybe even the Great Lakes region; our friend Hawk seems to think that the steelheading is mighty fine out there. What you'll discover is that the Americans out there will be refreshingly different. Maybe then you'll realize the diversity of this country, not only color-wise, but regionally and ethnically also.

For Washinton's recreational steelheaders a huge problem I see is that we can't separate the "fishing" method from the people. We do this to both the commercials and Native American alike. Because we don't like their fishing styles, we hate them. But in reality it's the people that are important, not the method. I saw this at the I-695 rally at Seacrest when Pete Knutson showed up. People were telling him to "f***-off" and "go to hell" and they don't even know this man personally.

We also do this amongst ourselves. Many of us have created this hierarchy of recreational steelheading methods, with our favorite on top. Some of the stereotypes I've seen emerge from this are: flyfishers are elitists, plunkers kill natives, pluggers can't catch 'em any other way, floatfishers are sissies, etc,etc,etc. Again, it's not the method that's important, it's the person.

hello guys,

i have never posted on this board before, in fact i just got a computer and this site seems to have a lot of cool information. but, jeez, i opened this folder or topic or whatever and saw this post from ironfisherman, now i read the replys and stuff and since i am a fellow steelheader i though i would put in my two cents. you know, being young is tough nowadays, and there are fewer and fewer fish and fewer and fewer places to fish for them. i guess that is kinda what leads to ironfishers experience on the elhwa river. i am pretty young, but i do guide other fisherman for a living, and i dont think your reply to those indian kids was very appropriate. shoot, some of the other feellas kinda support it too, i dont though. comeon, seeems liketheir is alot of hatred towards those indian kids, i mean, dont support their bhavior or anything, but feel that its always best to turn the other cheek. and to say "where we put you", come on man, i think ironfiseherman is no different than any other race haters, that racial stuff comes from anger inside your heart, none of that stuff affects those kids, infact they probably got the last laught at you, just seeing how mad you got, we all live together and racism sucks, so ironfiseherwoman or whatever, instead of yelling at young tots like yourself, remember, they were here before you and lived plenty well for a long time, only since the white people came that all the animals started to disappear. and maybe you should leave washingotn for a trip, helps broaden your feelings and stuff. hey, your post made me feel angry towards your ignorance, and maybe some of my comments will frustrate you, but seems that thiese chats arenet for racism but ar efor fishing knowledge, so come on. all that anger shows, from anyone who doesnt like other races, is hatred of yourself, so hate yourself, but just keep it to yourself. shoot, i hope that i never have to put up with a someone like you on the river, cause i just might takeoffense ya know, ya never know who you might make madadn there aare bigger andtougher, so pickeing on the yuoung kids isnt all that hard. basically, just show some love man, keep your mouth quiet because when you open it like in your post, you come across like a total idiot jerk. not that you are, just seems like that. good luck guys, tight lines man.

jerry
good luck

Sounds like there are quite a few racists on this board. Just an observation. Why the bitterness? Sounds like they were only kids.

I have found that if you are friendly when on or off reservation property you will receive the same in return.

I'm with Hohwaiian on this one. When you get the chance get out of washington. I moved here from michigan 3 years ago and am really happy that i got to live a dozen of my years in michigan. The people are different here compared tot here as people in eastern wa. are probably different than you and me. And the midwest does have better fishing. About your question on what to do about the indians. Just leave. Go upstream or downstream. As long as you can get away from them and have time to think it over you'll be happy you didn't do anything. Steve (16 years old)

Iron,
I can remember being younger and thinking the same way but I tell ya what when you open your mouth and stuff like that comes out you make yourself look like a ass. The more I fish the more I see that theres good and bad in all thats going on. You can't tell me you havn't seen the sportie out there snaggin' fish like they're going out of style. But there are some great indians out there. I met a guy on the river this weekend he was netting and I was plunking on the other side, we sat told each other lies about the fish we've gotten and had a great time. So try to open your mind and next time you get into a situation like that just turn the other cheek and be the bigger man. Your out there to have fun and land that monster that sitting in the river waiting to rip you a new one. tight lines and have fun
Kevin

Boy you guys just like to take it right in the a-- don't you. What if they threw a rock and it hit me or even worse my rod. So Kevin did you and the Indian exchange stories? Did he tell you about how he nets three fourths of the way across the river and kills five wild fish in one day. Hey Jerry, what are you talking about? "Look at the person." I dislike anyone who uses a net to catch fish Native American or Commercial. In fact I use all of the methods you have described, all accept netting.

Iron,

Any racist remark only makes you look way worse. If those kids couldn't throw rocks across the river, you weren't threatened. Two wrongs don't make a right, and chances are it won't make you feel any better and it will likely escalate things. If you have ever been on an Indian Reservation it is easy to tell that a lot of these kids won't ever have some of the opportunities you have. While I do feel that you create your own opportunities and circumstances, they may not be raised in a fashion that will make them believe that. Thinking about any net taking any fish from an already unhealthy stock makes my blood boil. But Indians and commercials will always net as long as they have something to gain from it financially.

This web board should not be to fuel racist inuendoes, but for the fisherman on it to come together and bring about awareness.

Iron, be thankful of who you are and leave racism for the other knuckleheads out there (we already have enough of them).