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#84653 - 01/12/00 02:28 AM Re: Elwha indian encounter.
Stadle Offline
Juvenille at Sea

Registered: 12/04/99
Posts: 183
Loc: Seattle Area
Iron,

I have been around long enough to see the devastation in our fine state of the fisheries (I am 33). You cannot blame this on any single factor it is a group effort.Look at the funding and hatchery plants from 10 years ago. Let's face it, if I were to offer you $1m tomorrow for doing nothing would you take it? Of course you would..Don't blame somebody for taking what is given to them. get off your but and fight to make the change if you think it is wrong.
It seems to me the thing you were after here was a little respect... remember you have to have self respect and show this to others before you can be respected by others.
One final note.. I have two small children ages 4yrs and 3 months and if either of them at age 15 act and react the way you have here, I will be ashamed and will have failed at my job as a father.

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#84654 - 01/12/00 03:07 AM Re: Elwha indian encounter.
IntenseGK Offline
Fry

Registered: 04/05/99
Posts: 33
Loc: Olympia, WA
Fishgal,

Do you think that these kids are being raised and prepped to go get a post secondary education? I highly doubt it in most cases.
Much of your post I agree with. I do not believe that Natives should get preferrential treatment of any sort. Nothing on my post was meant to bring about that interpretation. I would have said the same thing if the kids were white. In my opinion, kids that run around looking for some sort of conflict have been brought up poorly or they have poor self esteem.

I would like for these benefits, especially netting rights to go away. In my opinion, if you want to have a fish for a dinner out of a Washington Stream, it should come via rod and reel.

Tight Lines

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#84655 - 01/12/00 04:20 AM Re: Elwha indian encounter.
Anonymous
Unregistered


Iron
Looks like the advise has gotten out of hand. The best thing to do for you would have been 1) walk away 2)tell your dad and ask for his advise. Hopefully your dad would take you to the other side of the river and tell the TRIBAL Police. They would be able to identify the kids and contact their parents for you. The indians don't want their kids acting that way and would appreciate knowing how they were acting. These are kids from families with parents that do give a [Bleeeeep!]. I have several indian friends who happen to be parents on the reservation. If it was one of their kids they would have a sore ass!!!
Tight lines

------------------
Marty
www.steelheader.net
marty@steelheader.net

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#84656 - 01/12/00 07:46 AM Re: Elwha indian encounter.
rainycity Offline
Returning Adult

Registered: 12/06/99
Posts: 434
Loc: Seattle
I agree with William, that was the point I was trying to make in an earlier post, that they were just kids,
(white, red, yellow, black) does`nt matter,
the fact of the matter is that they were just that,,,kids,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

[This message has been edited by rainycity (edited 01-12-2000).]
_________________________
Teach your kids,
Ever wonder why Noah didn`t just
slap them 2 mosquitos????

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#84657 - 01/12/00 11:30 AM Re: Elwha indian encounter.
Coho Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 03/09/99
Posts: 2682
Loc: Muk
Many good points made. What would you do next time???? Keep in mind-They are kids. Regardless of race-and all other demographic relation (white trash/black trash/red trash-more racists remarks). Kids. This does not rationalize their racist remarks-but taunting and being clueless seems to be normal behavior of a kid. They were out in their element, strutting their stuff and I can relate that turning away or keeping myself from throwing a rock would be tough to hold back. It is the best thing to do. Now get them out on a hockey rink-If you were the Indian walking down the bank of the Skagit or any river for that matter, you may have been treated the same way from young delinquents or white trash.

With all the privileges that much of the working society contributes these kids should have been praising you. Yeah Right like that would happen

P.S.. My heritage is Irish and German.

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#84658 - 01/12/00 11:31 AM Re: Elwha indian encounter.
hawk Offline
Spawner

Registered: 03/08/99
Posts: 592
Loc: austin, Minnesota, USA
Here comes the reverend Hawk on his pulpit. I agree with Fishgal. It's time for everyone to quit living in the past and using history as a crutch to not motivate yourself to achieve your goals. It's a deep rooted social issue, that sadly won't go away in any of our lifetimes. Bottom line is that every one of us have to accept personal responsibility for our actions. You are the only one who controls it. We have to stop looking for help from everyone else, grab our selves by both cheeks, and get to getting on with it.

Number wise, our fishing is better in the Midwest, although there is a heavy price to pay for it. Lot's of rivers with elbow to elbow fisherman. Not a lot of opportunities for a "newby" to learn without stepping on someone elses toes. You have to put up with a lot of [Bleeeeep!] to catch fish, but it's still worth it to me. There have been dozens of occasions where I have wanted to make someone blow bubbles, but it won't solve a thing. All you can do is try to "inform" people as to what is grating on you. I've made a lot of friends by talking to guys who originally were P*ssing me off, only to find out they were looking for some help, and were afraid to ask. No one likes to struggle.

None of us own the rivers, so we have to learn to get along. The "Save the Gay Whale" foundation is looking for every opportunity to take our hunting and fishing rights away. Don't give them the ammunition to do it.

We aren't ever going to hold hands on the river bank and sing "Cumbaya", but there isn't any reason to call people feather heads, and say you hate people, you don't even know. We all have our flaws, just part of being human.

I'm not a deeply religous person, but remember the only "perfect" person got hung on a cross. Not much reward in being perfect, is there?

I'm off the pulpit now.

Hey HoHawain! If you want to engage in some combat fishing, shoot me an e-mail, and we'll go fish with the Drones in Milwaukee. Rivers are narrow, and you need more than a rock. I think a couple of crusty old steelheaders could make it fun. Just ask Robbo. Tight lines
_________________________
The best way to be succesful in life is to keep the people who hate you away from the people who are undecided

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#84659 - 01/12/00 12:38 PM Re: Elwha indian encounter.
Steelheader boy Offline
Juvenille at Sea

Registered: 12/13/99
Posts: 150
Loc: Olympia Wa.
`I'm with fish gal, and as for you Jerry what post were reading,these are kids we are talking about, if they were adultsit would have gotten much uglier. so cut the kid some SLACK!!! he did not instagate this, he did not start the racial comments either.Having grown up on the Nisqually during the really interesting events of the early seventies I've seen violence on the river ands thats something I wish I never have to do again. but back to this situation Iron you tried to avoid it and that didn't work either ,you responded with anger because thats human nature. Mt youngest is 17 and a true sportsman we very seldom even keep a fish even hatchery brats, he is thinking about his kids and their fishingas I was , my father grew up in this great state fished all his life and tought me catch and release at an early age if we were'nt going to eat that fish that night it went back in the river....attitude is everything Iron you hang in there....

------------------
Tight Lines
<*)>>< smile
_________________________
Tight Lines
FISH ON ------<*)>><
Men are like fish we get into trouble when we open our mouths to much!!

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#84660 - 01/12/00 03:29 PM Re: Elwha indian encounter.
jerry dickson Offline
Egg

Registered: 01/11/00
Posts: 3
Loc: portland, or
hello fellas

well i do agree with some people on the board, i too would be very embarrassed if mykids ac ted as ironfiseherman did. it seems the topic has gotten away from the incident that occurred here. and why is ironfisherman telling us we are taking it in the ***, jeez, for a young man you have a foul mouth and a small mind. you too shalllearn as you get older that you are young and dumb right now, just full of emotion without much thought. what im saying is this, anyone who supports ironfishermans actions is a racist, and for all the gifts our government gives the native americans, what about good family lives? something the government cant give and exactly what the native american kids are lacking (at least in the cases i have seen). those indian kids, boy, why hate them,in fact i dont feel hatred towards a person like you ironfisherman, i feel sorry for you, because of your lack of compassion. obviously, the point was well made, younmg kids couldnt even throw the rock across the river (i know how big the elwha is also), but the big tough guy you are, told them to get back on the res. huh?? well why dont you and your family go back to wherever your ancestors came from, we are all immigrants like it or not, and the bottom line is, indians and nets are not the cause of the fish decline, look at the rivers on the lower columbia, no tribal nets and no fish, in fact the tribes do more habitat restoration than any other single organization, 5$billion spent on hatcheries by wdfw and odfw, and still no fish, we all have to realize we have completely changed our ecosystems, so the fish wont come back anytime soon, only once more humans die off. good luck, and please seek a counselor ironfisherman, or else later in life your anger will lead you to prison where you might just take it ***898.

tight lines guys
jerry

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#84661 - 01/12/00 04:20 PM Re: Elwha indian encounter.
jerry dickson Offline
Egg

Registered: 01/11/00
Posts: 3
Loc: portland, or
hello guys
just a quick hint, my wife is a web-master, she creates web sites and stuff like that, i am only writing to YAHOO, the shooting comment seems completely out of line, i read mr. ball's terms/conditions for the board and that comment seems out of line. so just to let you know, i had my wife write down your email info. and copied the comments, shes sedning themonto some people who may contact you. free speech is free speeech but threatening lives is differeent. might want to watch your words next time.

tight lines

jerry

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#84662 - 01/12/00 06:28 PM Re: Elwha indian encounter.
Hohwaiian Offline
Returning Adult

Registered: 07/06/99
Posts: 481
Loc: Seattle, Washington, US
Iron, I apologize for such lengthy advice on my previous two posts. I can sum up my message in one sentence; "Learn to communicate and get to know someone before you form an opinion about them."

I was encouraged by your last post where you stated, "I dislike anyone who uses a net to catch fish, Native American or Commercial." Maybe you aren't a full-blown racist, yet you are discriminating against netters. In my book racism is discrimination, but discrimation is not necessarily racism. Nonetheless, I hope you come to understand that overt forms of both are not accepted in today's society.

I realize that you're still a young buck, and quite impressionable. So I don't blame you for fostering the hatred that you do. I blame the influential adults and other racist recreational fishers that have planted these notions in your mind and heart. In fact, some of the racist jargon comes from this BB. I call for, and I'm sure The Big One will agree, an end to all racist labels on this board. Hopefully this will strengthen the legitimacy of this forum and put us on-line politically.

Iron, despite your shocking comments, you're still a fellow steelheader. Many of us have taken time out to give you advice per your request. While most of us are much older than you are, we care enough to share from our experiences. I'm not going to tell you what to do with this information other than to read it and assimilate it. Eventually you'll form your own opinion.

Group hug everyone!

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#84663 - 01/12/00 08:09 PM Re: Elwha indian encounter.
IronFisherman Offline
Juvenille at Sea

Registered: 12/13/99
Posts: 145
Loc: Silverdale, Washington, U.S.
I dislike anyone who takes fish from a habitat with a net, Native or commercial. What don't some of you people understand about that? The kids called me the racist name first. To whom ever said "if my kids did something like that I would have felt like I failed as a father" Doesn't even know what it's like to be the parrent of a teen, you wait and see I know for a fact your kids will do something equilly as disapointing. Just think of what kinds of things you did when you were my age. Oh yes, Yahoo didn; threatin someones life so saying "I'm going to tell my wife on you isn't going to acomplish much."

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#84664 - 01/12/00 11:24 PM Re: Elwha indian encounter.
Mountin' Man Offline
Parr

Registered: 03/07/99
Posts: 53
Loc: Soldotna, Alaska
Right on Fishgal!!! You expressed my views perfectly. I admire you for choosing not to take advantage of "special rights". Good for you. You should be proud.

Doug
_________________________
www.twinriverstaxidermy.com

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#84665 - 01/12/00 11:51 PM Re: Elwha indian encounter.
corky Offline
Smolt

Registered: 06/08/99
Posts: 89
Loc: Port Angeles Wa.
Iron, these kids are raised on racism. You should have just walked away, gave them a smile and a wave, and not apeared to be like them.

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#84666 - 01/13/00 02:05 PM Re: Elwha indian encounter.
Duck In The Fog Offline
Returning Adult

Registered: 04/02/99
Posts: 460
Loc: Yakima Wa. U.S.A.
Jerry Dickson

Sounds like you're a whineing cry baby.
If you can't handle what's being said then don't pay attention. We don't need you policeing this site. Bob does a great job.
Snivel,snivel and don't tell mommy okay.
Jim Marquis (Duck in the fog)

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#84667 - 01/13/00 02:18 PM Re: Elwha indian encounter.
Yahoo Offline
Parr

Registered: 11/19/99
Posts: 47
Loc: Hansville ,Wa. U.S.A.
Hey Jerry Dickson, Yahoo here. I wasnt threatning anybodys life, I was just venting, Maybe a little too much. Sorry if I offended you or anybody else on this board. I edited the message so that hopefully nobody else takes things as literal has you!

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#84668 - 01/13/00 02:25 PM Re: Elwha indian encounter.
Duck In The Fog Offline
Returning Adult

Registered: 04/02/99
Posts: 460
Loc: Yakima Wa. U.S.A.
Fishgal

With all do respect, you have a legitimate reply. At the same time your reply will not help the problem. Of course being from the east side let's me look at the problem from a different angle. On this side we try to look at the adversary with respect and try to work together to achive the results we're all looking for. Working together will help where seperating our identities will make it weak. You should be proud of your heritage.
Jim Marquis (Duck in the fog)
P.s. Bob will you please enter my real name
instead of Duck in the fog. Thanks

[This message has been edited by Duck In The Fog (edited 01-13-2000).]

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#84669 - 01/13/00 02:29 PM Re: Elwha indian encounter.
rainycity Offline
Returning Adult

Registered: 12/06/99
Posts: 434
Loc: Seattle
Jerry,
I`m sorry to sound this way but, in your earlier post you said you "just got a computer"?
And your wife`s a webmaster?, hmmmm.
Sounds fishy to me..*L*
And in your second post I noticed this..

(copy and pasted)
so hate yourself, but just keep it to yourself. shoot, i hope that i never have to put up with a someone like you on the river, cause i just might takeoffense ya know, ya never know who you might make madadn there aare bigger andtougher, so pickeing on the yuoun"
(copy and pasted)

Notice the word shoot and where it`s placed.
it also could be misconstrued as threatening if taken out of context.

YAHOO was`nt threatening anyone, he was simply making a statement. Dumb statement?, maybe,
but nothing more than a statement with no harm intended to anybody.


[This message has been edited by rainycity (edited 01-13-2000).]
_________________________
Teach your kids,
Ever wonder why Noah didn`t just
slap them 2 mosquitos????

Top
#84670 - 01/13/00 02:29 PM Re: Elwha indian encounter.
Bob D Offline
Returning Adult

Registered: 03/24/99
Posts: 383
Loc: Port Orchard Wa Kitsap
Jerry D.
Nobody threatend anybody at all. Maybe you should read it over and over again untill it becomes clear to you that he simply stated what may have happened in the same situation many, many years ago. yea it was probably out of line being that a younger member was looking to people for advice. And that is not good advice...But it wasent advise at all it was a statement! Thanks for being the "chat cop" but we already have one. You must have better things to do with your time, if you dont try fishing!!!

See ya on the river...

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#84671 - 01/13/00 03:00 PM Re: Elwha indian encounter.
Curt Offline
Juvenille at Sea

Registered: 05/10/99
Posts: 118
Loc: Auburn,Wa
hey jerry,maybe you should calm down just a bit i hardly took offense to yahoo's post,in fact i didn't take it as threatening,i would personaly take your first post as more threatening,and whats this your wifes a web master but you just got a computer?well jerry maybe you should just have a warm glass of milk and take a nap and maybe you wont be so cranky when you wake up!!!and please don't tell mommy i said this!!!!

WHINE ON!!!
IF IT'S WILD LET IT GO!!!

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#84672 - 01/13/00 03:18 PM Re: Elwha indian encounter.
umrules Offline
Spawner

Registered: 12/28/99
Posts: 619
Loc: wa., usa
I don't want to offend anybody and I hope I am not out of line by saying this, but..... Can't we just get back to fishing and fishing techniques and stop beating this dead horse?
_________________________
M Go Blue!

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